Forums » The Enchanter

The Bhazgrim class video thoughts

    • 26 posts
    April 10, 2018 10:10 PM PDT

    WHen watching the video, when they were discussing epic abilities I began wondering which of the Enchanter's skills should or could be epic.

    I was thinking that AoE mez would be a great skill to be classified as epic. It makes sense to me. Having to learn from a master of the class that took an ability and magnified it to a drastic degree: going from being able to charm one MoB at a time, to awhole area of MoBs with one cast.

    What do you all think?

    • 6 posts
    April 10, 2018 11:37 PM PDT

    I think you might be right with the AOE MEZ. The "Master of CC" we are titled to be leads me to think that our "Epic Abilities" may even include more reliable versions of spells. Maybe a Charm that has definitive break time? Maybe a Mez that is nearly impossible for non raid bosses to resist? With being an enchanter, one of the big "oh crap moments" were having mobs resist your spell or instantly break free from the spell. I think most of us that have played an Enchanter have had those moments where Charm is resisted several times till you are looking down on your corpse.

    Bhazgrim did an amazing job of asking alot of really good questions. One of the questions i have been wondering is how will support classes match up to others in terms of DPS when traditional CC isnt needed. I love the fact they appear to be making a point to make all the classes viable for their type. Now im not talking about every class having every ability. I am so glad we are getting a game that is taking us back to the big 4 roles.Im talking about how in EQ if you were not a warrior you didnt main tank raids or clerics being the most important healer for a raid. He talked about how each healer will have a unique twist on what they are good at. Clerics being the big single target healer while Shamans the AOE HotT healers? I understand playing enchanter i should never expect to do the damage as a wizard. I am interested to see how outside of CC and besides the hopeful idea charm is a big part of our spells, how will the enchanter hold up with damage in a group? 

    As for your multiple charmed mob theory. I really dont think that can ever be viable in a game. Leaves to much room to be overpowered. Charming 1 mob in itself is a mechanic that walks a very thin path.

    • 18 posts
    April 11, 2018 7:38 PM PDT

    Forget the name of the spell but its from EQ2 Illusionist. It basically sends clones of the group at the target and memory wipes it. I saved the day on a raid once. The clones lived like .8 a second but it was just enough time to save the tank. Since we are talking epic, maybe an AoE version? Also would be cool to get some sort of awesome group buff.  

    • 173 posts
    April 22, 2018 7:59 PM PDT

    brandon said:

    Forget the name of the spell but its from EQ2 Illusionist. It basically sends clones of the group at the target and memory wipes it. I saved the day on a raid once. The clones lived like .8 a second but it was just enough time to save the tank. Since we are talking epic, maybe an AoE version? Also would be cool to get some sort of awesome group buff.  

     

    Nice.  Reminds me of Phantom Army from City of Heroes' Illusion Controller.  

    • 104 posts
    April 27, 2018 3:28 PM PDT

    Correct me please if Im wrong, but I didn't catch any mention of charm in the stream.  Did I just miss it?

    • 255 posts
    April 27, 2018 5:56 PM PDT

    Don't forget the need for AE Stuns. Sometimes Mez just isn't enough.

    • 58 posts
    April 28, 2018 10:15 PM PDT

    If I had a wish list, I suppose the iconic ability would be to create an unbreakable charm that would even zone with you. Other than that it would be kind of cool to have a group-wde mana to full ability. I assume that these would have extremely long re-cast times, like once per hour.

    • 1060 posts
    April 29, 2018 6:05 AM PDT

    For me, charm broke the distinction between a control class and a DPS class. Often you would see enchanters beeing as effective as a group themselves with a charmed creature and maybe, a healer/debuffer to make sure the mob outdps pulls and ends up alive.

    I know old enchanter's mains see theses as "tricks rewarding skilled players", and while I agree they are a feat of some skills (probably lower than thought but still a skillcap of it's own), they don't belong in a group centric games. A temporary charm with a lower duration than cooldown would be a good inch for the enchanter, to add some damage and control a mob at the same time, but making it permanent will go against the intent of the game, as much as it was a total break in the meta of EQ. (I remember on P99, a druid prefering to leave a not so well balanced group, to solo by herself with charm animal, and it was only around lvl 15 :/ )

     

    Remember, if your class allow for a distinct trick that allows them to solo with as much efficiency as a group, why shouldn't every class get the same possibility ?

    • 109 posts
    May 9, 2018 10:16 PM PDT

    No Enchanter had a Cleric Complete Heal their pet unless we're talking about early low end content. Having a 150k-500k health charmed pet dual weilding hasted and ensnared will take forever for a cleric to CH it to full health after they changed CH to cap at something like 7500 health. What we usually did was get it low, then break charm and kill it, loot the weapons back or any haste gear and then grab another and repeat.


    This post was edited by Janus at May 9, 2018 10:16 PM PDT
    • 1060 posts
    May 10, 2018 4:37 AM PDT

    Darkintellect said:

    No Enchanter had a Cleric Complete Heal their pet unless we're talking about early low end content. Having a 150k-500k health charmed pet dual weilding hasted and ensnared will take forever for a cleric to CH it to full health after they changed CH to cap at something like 7500 health. What we usually did was get it low, then break charm and kill it, loot the weapons back or any haste gear and then grab another and repeat.

     

    I think it was 10k for CH, and 7500 for the druid's "equivalent", it remained a strong spell however, and didn't change the problem.

    Where a group will put their efforts to beat a monster, an enchanter will charm it and make it a beast with haste, beeing stronger than a group by himself. Give equivalent tools to every single class of the game and you will get a stupid easy game where everyone can solo.

    • 109 posts
    May 10, 2018 7:21 AM PDT

    Only that this was highly situational. In close quarters, we usually didn't haste a target. Charm breaks can end you and fast if duel weilding and hasted before PoP where we got Arcane Rune line. With proper tactics, charm soloing was possible and utilized one of two options, both requiring a good distance from both targets. But that's the point. The class is far more challenging on that side than say a mage or wizard.

    With an Enchanter, you can be incredibly powerful with skill, but you introduce the chance of unmitigated chaos at the sacrifice of stability. If breaking Sebilis for instance, it was better to just CC, buff and debuff with added nukes to interupt froglok wizards from gating at low health. Sitting at a named spot with a group waiting for respawn meant most of your time you were dealing with constant charm breaks. It wasn't a good idea. The class was just designed to be a wildcard capable of a wide range of function due to the tools inherant to the class design.

    The reason we used Charm a ton in Velious was because so much couldn't be mezzed. So we took matters into our own hands which was when Enchanters went crazy with charm. The changed again in Luclin and we were back to mezzing. I even as a lone Enchanter mezzed entire pulls of 7-8 in Vex Thal raids while keeping the raid buffed and all mobs slowed, etc. There's far more that's powerful about the class than just charm.

    I will agree however that in PoP we were charming Gods and thus overpowered. Especially in Plane of Valor on the dragon with those 4 guards charmed, duel weilding and hasted. Those 4 put out more damage than a raid of 68 players.


    This post was edited by Janus at May 10, 2018 7:28 AM PDT
    • 45 posts
    August 8, 2018 2:14 PM PDT
    Could it also be a massive named mob mana siphon that transfers the mana to group/raid
    • 466 posts
    September 27, 2018 5:06 AM PDT

    Most groups I was in were hunting very tricky areas.  They did NOT want me messing around with a charmed pet since it was VERY likely that something BAD (tm) was GOING to happen and I needed to be on my toes to mezz/stun lock a room full of mobs.  That time I mezz-locked the throne room in Chardok - ALL of them - while the raid recovered from a whipe - THAT was an epic event in my gaming life.  And totally unfeasable if I had had a charmed pet.  What happens in those events if I have a perma-charmed pet with an AoE attacks?  A single mob breaks mezz just a second too ealry and swings at me - the pet responds and wakes up the entire room.  OMGWTFBBQLOLZ.  Then there is a long corpse recovery...