Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Visual cues for mobs breaking mez

    • 63 posts
    April 2, 2018 7:43 AM PDT

    Hi.  Just a quick suggestion.  It would be interesting to add an animation to enemies that they indicates that they are about to break out of mez.  For example, they could look around, shake their hed, rub their forehead, etc.  This would be more realistic than a mob going from standing 100% frozen to instantly charging your group, and it would also reward groups that pay attention and communicate.  

    • 1014 posts
    April 3, 2018 2:29 PM PDT

    This is an interesting topic.  If I remember correctly there was an audible with the current version.   I like the idea of visual timer or status of some sort would be interesting. 

    • 14 posts
    April 3, 2018 3:23 PM PDT

    I prefer no animation for when a mob is about to break mez.  I also don't like the idea of a visual timer.

    I'm even torn on having a graphic to show a mob is mezed, but having that graphic might be just enough extra information for mez without adding too much.

    Why?

    I like the challenge ... I was an old school enchanter when we had none of those things.  The challenge of being great at your class was part of the allure of the game.  You worked to get good at your class, to learn all those things that weren't obvious just starting that class. I found that when you played an enchanter full time, you got a good sense for the length of each mez.  - - Good enchanters might be able to mez 2-3 mobs.  Great enchanters maybe 4-6 mobs.  Maybe even more. - -  Before I was an enchanter, I remember when our group pulled 9 mobs in temple of droga and our enchanter controlled it all, AE and single mezes, somehow he and all of us survived that fight.

    That is why you had people maining one class and getting really good, because it took a while to learn a class and really be on top of your game.  I liked that challenge in EQ, and want to see a lot of that challenge in Pantheon.  Even in mastering ones class.  I am sure many things will change but I hope they find a way to keep the challenge, since I think that is part of why people played EQ for so long.

    Just one person's opinion ... I think new ideas like yours can only make the game better and who  knows how the devs will creatively implement things or where these ideas might lead them.  We can just keep sharing our ideas and giving our opinions in hopes that a great game evolves.

     

     


    This post was edited by Arbeor at April 3, 2018 3:31 PM PDT
    • 1014 posts
    April 4, 2018 11:07 AM PDT

    Ok this one made me go back to the last stream.  There is a good shot of what they have so far and I think it may cover what you were asking. 

     

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWgKSQJtHrA&t=4450s

     

    Timeline to look for is around 15:32 to see a Mob(Blank Rose Mine Hand) being CC’d.  It’s a purple aura and looks like it fades as the spell wears off.

    I think its looks good and is a great visual for the spell on the mob...

    Your thoughts?

     

    Ox

    • 63 posts
    April 4, 2018 11:20 AM PDT

    Oxillion, I have a couple of thoughts.  It does a good job of indicating that a mob is currently mez'd.  Some people may take issue with how intense it is and prefer something more subtle.  I don't really ahve an opinion one way or another on that issue.  Overall if the choice was between this or no indicator, i would take this.  But I don't think it really addresses what I was talking about.  I am talking about a subtle, preemptive indicator that the mob is about to break out of the mez naturally.  It would be animation-based (no glowy lights, no text etc) and maybe give 2 seconds of warning to a perceptive group member from the initial frames of the animation.  In that video, the mob is already attacking by the time the purple-swirly indicator dissipates.  If a mob was broken from mez by an attack, the animation would either be much shorter (0.5 seconds maybe) or not played at all.  

     

     

    • 63 posts
    April 4, 2018 11:40 AM PDT

    Arbeor said:

    I prefer no animation for when a mob is about to break mez.  I also don't like the idea of a visual timer.

    I'm even torn on having a graphic to show a mob is mezed, but having that graphic might be just enough extra information for mez without adding too much.

    Why?

    I like the challenge ... I was an old school enchanter when we had none of those things.  The challenge of being great at your class was part of the allure of the game.  You worked to get good at your class, to learn all those things that weren't obvious just starting that class. I found that when you played an enchanter full time, you got a good sense for the length of each mez.  - - Good enchanters might be able to mez 2-3 mobs.  Great enchanters maybe 4-6 mobs.  Maybe even more. - -  Before I was an enchanter, I remember when our group pulled 9 mobs in temple of droga and our enchanter controlled it all, AE and single mezes, somehow he and all of us survived that fight.

    That is why you had people maining one class and getting really good, because it took a while to learn a class and really be on top of your game.  I liked that challenge in EQ, and want to see a lot of that challenge in Pantheon.  Even in mastering ones class.  I am sure many things will change but I hope they find a way to keep the challenge, since I think that is part of why people played EQ for so long.

    Just one person's opinion ... I think new ideas like yours can only make the game better and who  knows how the devs will creatively implement things or where these ideas might lead them.  We can just keep sharing our ideas and giving our opinions in hopes that a great game evolves.

    Thanks for your perspective.  The motivation was never to make it easy to predict when a mez is breaking, at least not in the middle of an intense fight.  Obviously if you're just focused on mezzing one mob, it's going to be easy to read the animation and predict breaking.  But when you are in an intense fight, there is a pretty significant cost to focusing your attention on a mezed mob watching for a subtle animation to play.  Even so, if you're reacting to the animation, you might have to change targets and start casting, and by the time you get your spell off the mob is already hitting someone.  Whereas an experienced player that has a good feel for when a mob is going to break is going to be at a significant advantage because they can focus more on other things and they will already be prepared to re-mez the mob as the mez is expiring.

    • 1649 posts
    April 4, 2018 1:22 PM PDT

    I said it in a similar thread that popped up after the stream, but I feel unreliable information is bad information/worse than no information at all. Things like root/mez/sleep/charm/etc don't often last their full duration on level appropriate mobs, usually breaking with a random saving throw on a random server "tick." If you can't reliably use the graphic to indicate the end of one of those spells then it is not worthwhile to watch for it in the vast majority of circumstances, so watching for the movement of the mob to signify breakage (or combat log message) would remain the most important thing to watch for. 

    • 37 posts
    April 4, 2018 1:48 PM PDT

    personally i like the idea of Zoltar. I never played eq 1 so i could not say about enchanter in EQ. As example i played a Psi in Vanguard from Beta. In Beta it was possible to mezz 3-4 mobs at once if you were a skilled player. but never 6-9. if a mezz was up for 20s then calculate cast time and also calculate global cooldowns. Vanguard a mazz has the possibility to break before time goes off. each second there was the possibility and in lower levels mezzes not often run off of time.

    During Beta they nerfed Psi so they could just mezz one mob at once. then charm another one and maybe stun or root. I believe this will also happen at Pantheon to not trivialize contend.

    • 8 posts
    May 8, 2018 8:58 PM PDT

    I know I found some of the CC spells in wow amusing. Turning enemies into sheep or frogs was its own visual cue that they were "managed." No need for anything else, at that point.

     

    Although I'd have laughed hard if the sheep, at least, had kept trying to fight, doing 1 damage of headbutt damage per round...

    • 958 posts
    May 8, 2018 9:23 PM PDT

    zoltar said:

    Hi.  Just a quick suggestion.  It would be interesting to add an animation to enemies that they indicates that they are about to break out of mez.  For example, they could look around, shake their hed, rub their forehead, etc.  This would be more realistic than a mob going from standing 100% frozen to instantly charging your group, and it would also reward groups that pay attention and communicate.  

    There's already a visual cue, it's the red bar below the enchater's name. 

    • 351 posts
    May 9, 2018 5:48 AM PDT

    This is a good point, because my computer is usually so crappy that I turn effects off.  So if the "mez" effect is a spell that has little lazers,  I won't see it.  It woudl be nice if the mobs actually looked strained or restrained.

    • 440 posts
    May 9, 2018 6:10 AM PDT

    I always thought it was funnyhow a mob went from mez to unmezzed, like a running a starting block, motionless until the gun goes off.

    Maybe a little head shake to clear the cobwebs would be ok, nothing that took more than 1/2 a second or so before they began their charge, not fading auras or such, and if a mob BREAKS(RNG) mez, there should be NO warning.

     

    • 610 posts
    May 9, 2018 6:53 PM PDT

    An animation I like.

    Spell effects I like as well, but it's true some will need effects low or off.

    Red bars above there heads. We may as well just do a Leader Line with text that says "This MOB is Mezed"

    Numerical counter... Really!? skill level Zero, you have become better at Snowflake +1

    • 51 posts
    May 9, 2018 7:05 PM PDT

    "There's already a visual cue, it's the red bar below the enchater's name." - Krixus

     

    :'-D that made me LOL.

     

    I have to say as a chanter main I don't care for this idea in the slightest, and when you learn the class you sort of get a sense of timing for your abilities. That timing may not be perfect, but you do get a general sense of it. It really does feel like this would push it towards easy mode.

    • 610 posts
    May 9, 2018 10:47 PM PDT

    Etahfo said:

    "There's already a visual cue, it's the red bar below the enchater's name." - Krixus

    :'-D that made me LOL.

    I totaly missed that

    • 563 posts
    May 9, 2018 11:33 PM PDT

    I quite like the idea of the mob rubbing their head, just for the sake of a cool little graphic that adds some flavor!

    As far as a countdown... The closest i would want to see is (if current spell graphics are used) the mez orb discreetly disintegrating until the mez has naturally expired... and maybe if the mob is woken up with a whack from a trigger happy DPS it puffs into thin air or explodes.  This is more of just a little discreet visual thing rather than an in your face "I'm Mr. MeeseeksLook at me!" type timer" 

     

    • 351 posts
    May 11, 2018 10:15 AM PDT

    Hokanu said:

    I quite like the idea of the mob rubbing their head, just for the sake of a cool little graphic that adds some flavor!

     

    I like this idea so much more too.  Ok you mezzed the mob, now keep an eye on it and tell us when it's about to "come to" and then mez it again.

    Better than just seeing blue lines disappear and thats when the mez is broken..

    • 62 posts
    May 16, 2018 6:02 PM PDT

    I am rather disappointed on the duration of mez mechanics from the streams. Unless they get much better as you level. I remember the basic mez lasting a bit. I actually had a timer I used to set so that I could work my way around the mobs mezing the first one before it wore off. I really tried to strive to be excellent at CC. This game just makes the devs look like a bunch of noobs with mobs running rampant. Granted its still Alpha and many things are subject to change but they could go a long way to polishing the class as it stands right now. It also seems like the enchanter has to nuke to provide mana. This will make mezzing even more of a pain as we have to select back and forth from targets in addition to keeping our charges mezzed with short duration mez timers. Again all just speculation since I havent played the game. Not trying to be super critical. =)

    On a side note about awakening from mez. I always thought it would have been cool if they were snared when mez wore off as the "fog" lifted from their brains. It prevented oh crap mez wore off enchanters down! We are all human and can make mistakes after marathon 8 hour gaming sessions. I feel like enchanters should just be a mana sponge for healers not just a oh snap your dead. Of course I was always too cheap to use the Shield spell lines because well gems werent cheap!

    • 600 posts
    May 16, 2018 9:14 PM PDT

    In times of need, we turn off all spell displays. So whats left is a mob charging at you full tilt. I can agree with the OP something different is not a bad idea. However that is something they would need to add after. Right now the main focus i understand is getting things done. I know for a fact i heard no new ideas or suggestions will be added, however the VR do see it and take notes.

    I know we need it to hit alpha hopefully by the end of the year or early next.

     

    Great suggestion OP.

     

    You could even go as far as lifting both arms in the air before the charge.

    • 336 posts
    May 17, 2018 4:58 PM PDT

    Krixus said:

    There's already a visual cue, it's the red bar below the enchater's name. 

    +1 from another old school enchanter. I had no visual aids, no buff timers, etc...still did the job just fine. I won't deny that timers, raid frames, visual indicators, etc are helpful, but they are absolutely unnecessary. I kept track of spawn timers, what was mezzed, what wasn't wasn't, target switching, target priorities, team call outs, etc...all without any of that. And I was an average enchanter, maybe above average by end of Velious, maybe not.

    If I am getting hit, I know it. If healer/tank are getting hit, I know. No need to have plates, indicators, auras, blah blah. The red HP bars tell you everything you need to know, respond accordingly.

    Thread after thread on this forum asking the devs to make the game easier, and I am going to have to keep arguing the opposite. 

    • 15 posts
    May 17, 2018 6:42 PM PDT

    I agree I used to keep an eye on the enchanters and clerics as a wizard to be quick with a sleep or a root, I was always a watchful wizzie