Forums » The Enchanter

Mez Breaking in Raids

    • 17 posts
    March 18, 2018 7:52 AM PDT

    I am concerned about the role of CC in raids. The Devs have  stated that they plan non-instance raids. Avoiding mez-breaking by target marking and coordination of selective DPS is going to be a problem when multiple groups are engaged in a scenario. Will this render mez mechanics and thereby Enchanters useless in raids and dungeons?

    • 83 posts
    March 18, 2018 9:13 AM PDT

    If you are talking about co-operative playing (Team A and Team B working together) then fingers crossed CC will probably be fine.  Most people will know that you dont break CC and if they do its probably by accident and can usually be recovered from.  When it can not people learn pretty quick when they die and have to explain why they broke the CC on the mob with the group wiping move.  Ultimatly the use of CC in this regard relies on wether or not people can remember not to attack the CC'd mobs and isn't a problem with the spells or their implementation.

     

    If you are talking about competatively (Guild A vs Guild B for limited availability high reward mobs) that also depends on wether or not Guild A can attack a target CC'd by group B.  If the answer to that question is Yes then CC will probably be close to useless at the upper end of the competative spectrum where results is more important that wether people like you, and (hopefully) mostly respected in the mid to low tiers.

     

    There is a reasonably long post about the Monster Claim system which I suspect ties heavily into your question (http://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4712/about-mob-tagging-stealing/view/page/1 ) I quickly skimmed over it to look for some kind of moderator post to get VRs official stance on the monster claim system but I didn't see one, I could be blind though.  I probably should sit down and read the full post at some point I guess. 

     

    Good question for the next live stream..... In a few hours...


    This post was edited by DuxDux at March 18, 2018 9:15 AM PDT
    • 155 posts
    March 22, 2018 10:23 AM PDT

    /ASSIST SoAndSo (Main Assist)

    • 246 posts
    March 22, 2018 12:32 PM PDT

    It's not a new concept.  EQ featured non-instanced, open-world raid encounters.  I personally witnessed encounters involving more than 70 people.  Mez was not rendered useless in that game.  Instead, people learn to be disciplined and avoid breaking mez.

    • 25 posts
    March 23, 2018 2:29 PM PDT

    No, it won't be a problem.  

    I was an enchanter in many EQ raids and once you have a solid group of players, mezing worked smoothly and good mezers could make some raid encounters seem easy.

    But good mezing was a team effort.  In our raids, we often had a paladin, enchanter and support healer focused on mezing.  The paladin stun was one of the best tools to grab quick agro but it would not break mez once it landed.  The support healer was there to keep the enchanter alive if a mez was resisted or when people were still learning and broke the mez.

    In our guild we had 2 or 3 great enchanters and we would race each other to see who was the fastest to lock down the mobs.  When everyone, paladins, healer and enchanters worked in unison, all the adds got locked down and then the raid could beat down the mobs one by one.  Of course it didn't always go that way and sometimes the raid adds wiped us.  It took a well practiced raid team to pull off those types of things.

    Mechanics like this are what separated the good players from the bad players.

    • 610 posts
    March 23, 2018 6:24 PM PDT
    Mez should be able to be broken by anyone whether in the raid or out of. No artificial restrictions. Mez will always only be only as useful as the person who is casting it and as the other person who is (or is not) breaking it. On one hand it is the most powerful spell in the game making certain death survivable, on the other have it is the most dangerous spell if you rely on it when you have players breaking it. That is the nature of the beast! You break it, you own it and then deal with the backlash if it ends in a wipe! The most dangerous mechanic to the survival of Mez in this game is making aoe taunt and aoe dps to powerful. Because it's that spam aoe abilities approach will become the path of least resistance and Mez will become a burden and we will end up having just another mmo aoe spam fest game.
    • 1148 posts
    March 23, 2018 8:21 PM PDT

    Hokanu said: Mez should be able to be broken by anyone whether in the raid or out of. No artificial restrictions. Mez will always only be only as useful as the person who is casting it and as the other person who is (or is not) breaking it. On one hand it is the most powerful spell in the game making certain death survivable, on the other have it is the most dangerous spell if you rely on it when you have players breaking it. That is the nature of the beast! You break it, you own it and then deal with the backlash if it ends in a wipe! The most dangerous mechanic to the survival of Mez in this game is making aoe taunt and aoe dps to powerful. Because it's that spam aoe abilities approach will become the path of least resistance and Mez will become a burden and we will end up having just another mmo aoe spam fest game.

     

    No AOE threat on tanks and you're done !

    • 6 posts
    August 20, 2018 4:19 PM PDT

    From the streams I watched. cheifly the one where character "Doc" had trouble mezzing but the rogue didn't have any problems. Left me a little concerned for the class.

     

    As a long time enchanter main in EQ Vanilla up to a few xpacs after PoP. I felt as time went on Enchanter mezzing became more and more of a hinderance. That offtanks, bard mez, rooting and kiting proved to be cheaper than an enchanter locking down a handful of targets for a set time and running a high risk of being killed quickly when one of those mezzes was broken.

     

    Towards the end of my career I felt it was more time spent buffing than doing what the class was centered around. 

     

    I liked the Rogue having the shadow and mirrors ability. But I absolutely got the feeling of the old days of getting resisted by a mob, getting to main tank and burn through tons of healer mana only to die or have the tanks finally draw aggro. While the wizards were belting them with heavy DD's or melee bashing their heads in. Of course this wouldn't be as much of an issue if Enc was made to be more offensivly minded.

    • 3761 posts
    August 21, 2018 4:02 AM PDT

    Atarius said:

    From the streams I watched. cheifly the one where character "Doc" had trouble mezzing but the rogue didn't have any problems. Left me a little concerned for the class.

     

    As a long time enchanter main in EQ Vanilla up to a few xpacs after PoP. I felt as time went on Enchanter mezzing became more and more of a hinderance. That offtanks, bard mez, rooting and kiting proved to be cheaper than an enchanter locking down a handful of targets for a set time and running a high risk of being killed quickly when one of those mezzes was broken.

     

    Towards the end of my career I felt it was more time spent buffing than doing what the class was centered around. 

     

    I liked the Rogue having the shadow and mirrors ability. But I absolutely got the feeling of the old days of getting resisted by a mob, getting to main tank and burn through tons of healer mana only to die or have the tanks finally draw aggro. While the wizards were belting them with heavy DD's or melee bashing their heads in. Of course this wouldn't be as much of an issue if Enc was made to be more offensivly minded.

    I wouldn't be too concerned tbh. Firstly, the reason the Rogue's CC was working but the Enchanter's wasn't was because Smoke & Mirrors is technically a melee ability, so it doesn't take spell resistance into consideration. The Enchanter Mez was simply getting resisted because the group was a little underleveled for the ramparts. Plus, Joppa admitted that not only does the spell resistance of those mobs need to be tuned better, but he also should have been using his debuffs to lower the mobs' spell resistance. Aside from spell resistance, Enchanters will still absolutely be the premier CC class. Rogue CC is much more situational. This just happened to be one of those situations where it was needed haha

    • 6 posts
    August 21, 2018 1:37 PM PDT

    Bazgrim said:

    Atarius said:

    From the streams I watched. cheifly the one where character "Doc" had trouble mezzing but the rogue didn't have any problems. Left me a little concerned for the class.

     

    As a long time enchanter main in EQ Vanilla up to a few xpacs after PoP. I felt as time went on Enchanter mezzing became more and more of a hinderance. That offtanks, bard mez, rooting and kiting proved to be cheaper than an enchanter locking down a handful of targets for a set time and running a high risk of being killed quickly when one of those mezzes was broken.

     

    Towards the end of my career I felt it was more time spent buffing than doing what the class was centered around. 

     

    I liked the Rogue having the shadow and mirrors ability. But I absolutely got the feeling of the old days of getting resisted by a mob, getting to main tank and burn through tons of healer mana only to die or have the tanks finally draw aggro. While the wizards were belting them with heavy DD's or melee bashing their heads in. Of course this wouldn't be as much of an issue if Enc was made to be more offensivly minded.

    I wouldn't be too concerned tbh. Firstly, the reason the Rogue's CC was working but the Enchanter's wasn't was because Smoke & Mirrors is technically a melee ability, so it doesn't take spell resistance into consideration. The Enchanter Mez was simply getting resisted because the group was a little underleveled for the ramparts. Plus, Joppa admitted that not only does the spell resistance of those mobs need to be tuned better, but he also should have been using his debuffs to lower the mobs' spell resistance. Aside from spell resistance, Enchanters will still absolutely be the premier CC class. Rogue CC is much more situational. This just happened to be one of those situations where it was needed haha

     

    I hear ya and you're probably right but worry is my middle name lol.

     

    The problem with Enc for me was always that. Tash for massive aggro and try to mez while tanking? Throw mez out and pray for a non resist. Get resisted and end up tanking anyways. While you're screwing around eating up the healers mana, you get the mez to land and then the group is looking to immediately break that mez to kill that mob.

     

    Now that's clearly the worst case scenario and by no means the rule. But I felt that happened waaaay too often in EQ. It lead to just offtanking as a way of doing things by default. Which oddly enough Brad did with Aradune in one of the streams. 

    • 36 posts
    October 3, 2018 10:38 AM PDT

    One thing I loved about EQ2 was how they handled mez breaking. If something is mezzed, AoE attacks don't affect them. However, it IS a bit more hand-holding, so I wouldn't be dissappointed if they kept that out of the game where you would have to manage your AoEs carefully.


    This post was edited by RpTheHotrod at October 3, 2018 10:39 AM PDT
    • 59 posts
    November 4, 2018 9:31 AM PST

    Atarius said:

    From the streams I watched. cheifly the one where character "Doc" had trouble mezzing but the rogue didn't have any problems. Left me a little concerned for the class.

     

    As a long time enchanter main in EQ Vanilla up to a few xpacs after PoP. I felt as time went on Enchanter mezzing became more and more of a hinderance. That offtanks, bard mez, rooting and kiting proved to be cheaper than an enchanter locking down a handful of targets for a set time and running a high risk of being killed quickly when one of those mezzes was broken.

     

    Towards the end of my career I felt it was more time spent buffing than doing what the class was centered around. 

     

    I liked the Rogue having the shadow and mirrors ability. But I absolutely got the feeling of the old days of getting resisted by a mob, getting to main tank and burn through tons of healer mana only to die or have the tanks finally draw aggro. While the wizards were belting them with heavy DD's or melee bashing their heads in. Of course this wouldn't be as much of an issue if Enc was made to be more offensivly minded.

    Yeh... I can remember  feeling more like a buff box....It gave me concerns to seeing the rogue mez it with ease and the enchanter have problems with it....Plenty of time for them to play around with this and dial it in... I am sure testers are playing around with things and helping VR dial it in.....