Forums » Pantheon Lore

Dark Myr breathing underwater

    • 262 posts
    March 15, 2018 12:04 AM PDT

    I just read the Dark Myr's lore page -

    Did Syronai, in refashioning their bodies, enable the Myr to breathe Terminus's poisonous waters? Because Nythir's sacrifice only temporarily allows the Myr to breathe underwater. Just wondering if the Myr will be able to breathe underwater, as I had assumed they would, but the lore seems to indicate otherwise - unless the waters are no longer poison to them?

    And any clarification as to why the Nythirian Red would become so crazed as to kill their beloved mother goddess? Just because they could breathe air? Why were they so insanely obsessed with their prior forms while the other Myr were not? Are we to suspect Ermos corrupted them somehow? And what is this sect of Nythirian Myr anyway? Myr who more closely dedicated their lives to Nythir while they were still living on Issul?

    Also, any word on how the Myr were transported to Terminus? The page mentions the Myr were created when Issul's "oceans were dying", but that seemed to refer to the conflict with the leviathans, which the Myr deal with.

    If not any official response, what do you guys think?


    This post was edited by Alexander at March 15, 2018 12:19 AM PDT
    • 53 posts
    March 15, 2018 2:28 AM PDT

    I hope they can breathe underwater too Alexander, one of my favourite classes is enchanter and I am leaning towards the Dark Myr.


    This post was edited by Pada at April 7, 2018 3:02 PM PDT
    • 116 posts
    March 16, 2018 6:57 AM PDT

    The whole premise of the world of Terminus is that we don't know what or why the different races are zapped onto the planet. We have no idea what it is that is so powerful it could bring entire races and their Gods to a whole new planet. Does it destroy the rest of the world and just take them?

    Also, there is precedent for people feeling that certain "blessings" were instead a curse. For example, in Norse legend, they desired nothing more than to die in glorious combat to be allowed entrance into Valhalla. I've read several myths where a mortal was "saved", and they viewed it as a curse. I'm not saying that the Nythir have some similar desire, but I can definitely understand how a God altering their very bodies could be seen as a violation of the temple of their bodies. The suspicion of Ermos is interesting, but I personally find it a stretch, at least right now. I didn't read any connection between the Nythirian Red killing Syronai and Ermos' presence myself.

    And as far as the Myr breathing water, again we don't know for sure. It's hard to tell from the lore we've been given. Maybe they can, maybe they can't! Now my personal interpretation is that they can't. Syronai's sacrifice was to give them new forms, including lungs to breathe air. She did this after she saw how the waters effected them. But that's just my view on it. Who knows!

    • 262 posts
    March 17, 2018 12:54 AM PDT

    Very cool Temmi, thank you for addressing each question!

    The Myr (Nythirians, but still Myr) killing Syronai because of an entirely understandable act is too thin for me, though. Considering -

    "With the oceans liberated, the gods came together to bless and rule over the Myr. Songs beneath the sea declared that the Myr carried "the heartbeat of Issul herself" and the race flourished under a unified pantheon. Yet of all the gods, Syronai remained their first love."

    Syronai is clearly presented as the true love of the Myr, as she should be, being their creator. So she saves them by changing their bodies - she being the one who intially created their bodies - and they murder her? What is it about Nythir which causes such an irreparable offense in the spirit of the Nythirians when their bodies are changed? Nythir was the God of Battle - so the Nythirian Myr thought their original forms were ultimately suited to battle, and any change would be a grave injustice to the point of justifying murdering their own mother, creator, true love, love of all other Myr? Wouldn't a god of battle value adaptation and survival?

    So there seem to be some missing pieces in the logic behind the Nythirian's murder of Syronai - they seem to have been seriously warped compared to other Myr. Why would that be? Not just because of Nythir, who was ostensibly a benevolent god on Issul..? Unless Nythir took on an aspect as more of an emperor, and wanted to usurp Syronai as "prime" god of the Myr? And maybe Nythir himself would encourage the Myrs' murder of Syronai? But this is not consistent with his (ineffective) sacrifice.

    So.. hmm. Hmmos. Hermmos. Ermos. Ermos is pretty clearly portrayed as malevolent, and is hovering above the scene just after Syronai's murder. At least I hope the reasoning doesn't remain the Nythirian Myr were.. for some reason.. upset enough that their bodies were changed by their prime mother creator goddess so they could survive, that they murdered her.

    We shall see =)


    This post was edited by Alexander at March 17, 2018 12:57 AM PDT
    • 1790 posts
    March 18, 2018 2:52 PM PDT

    A god of battle might value adaptation and survival, but mortals are flawed and often filled with pettiness, pride, and resistance to change. Perhaps with time they might have seen things differently but as it was they were blinded with rage.

    • 262 posts
    March 19, 2018 1:55 AM PDT

    [Edit: You may have already addressed this thinking in the other thread. I'm at least coming to an understanding of a possible state of the Red in this post.]

    But would the Nythirians, who may have valued Nythir above Syronai (as you suggested), not integrate such important aspects of the God of Battle? If survival is important, wouldn't the Nythirians be relatively full of that idea as a product of their dedication to Nythir? Essentially, why did they become so blinded with rage? We are to see their behavior as breaking with the tradition they trained within, losing their skills and discipline, and murdering the one beloved being of all Myr, who was like the only parent to them all? Who had always before treated them well? And whose decision saved their lives? This just depicts such a seriously compromised state of Myr who, it'd seem, should be (perhaps even more) steadfast, disciplined, and honorable. Nythir sacrifices himself, so there is some indication of nobility to his way - though I am making some assumptions about Nythir. I can believe they (all) suffered a horrendous forfeit of their better judgment (the judgment aligned with Nythir's way), but it just seems quite implausible without a corrupting influence. I think it bears repeating that this was Syronai they murdered - THE most important figure in the Myrs' lives, from what I gathered.

    If the explanation is "the Red just lost their **** and murdered Syronai", I'd expect to see an entire surviving culture develop with the strongest admonitions against the impulsivity and immaturity evinced by the Red which led to the murder of their light and prime love. Instead of greeting and leaving dialogues by referencing Ermos, the Myr should curse the Red or their lack of self-control. It seems the Red would become the most reviled and shamed group - and Nythir's teachings would obviously be critically analyzed and discounted for their role in contributing to this ultimately despicable act. The Myr could try to educate and enlighten its society about the profound dangers of irrational anger, but, without a renewal of the light previously given by Syronai, could fall into utter pain, resentment, and ultimately darkness. The current state of the Myr seems to reflect something like this.

    But I just wanted to be clear - it's all because some Myr had a grand f-up? Some tough-ass, discplined warriors were so cranky they couldn't fight as effectively, though they knew the change was for their and their race's survival, they killed the most important being in all of Myrdom? It's just a royal, mythic f-up experienced en masse. To the point where the Red can hardly be seen as anything more than jokes, even before this event. More blockhead-y than real warrior. Just clearing this up for myself - do we at least agree with that interpretation?


    This post was edited by Alexander at March 19, 2018 2:28 AM PDT
    • 116 posts
    March 19, 2018 8:10 AM PDT

    Hmm, I love seeing other viewpoints, and maybe the Nythirian Red are deranged, were deranged as they killed their creator. It is true (or seemingly so) that they are outcast from the normal Myr society, perhaps for this reason. However, There are always fringe groups. Perhaps the Nythirian Red were not as devout to Syronai as you infer, which would make their killing of her a bit more sensible.

    I don't want to make this a debate about human religion, but I think the example is relevant. There are people on Earth who may believe in God, and be Christian, but who consider God flawed because of some of his vengeful or seemingly harsh behaviors. I don't think it's quite a stretch to say that some part of the Myr population on Issul didn't worship Syronai as you think. Perhaps that group of people instead turned to worshipping Nythir, because his gift (the gift of battle) was something more real to them, something tangible.

    I always rather assumed that those who slaughtered Syronai were already in this boat; that they were in fact not enamoured of her.

    I'd love to learn more about their culture. They were created to war. They were created to defeat the Leviathans of Issul. I'd be interested to know if their beliefs were similar to old Norse, or even Ancient Greek/Rome. They put great value upon martial prowess. Nords believed that if they lost a limb, they could not go to Valhalla, because they were then useless to the God Odin. Their body was merely a tool to reach the goal of Valhalla.

    If the tale had been of Syronai simply saving their lives, I would say it would be less believable for the Nythirian Red to post up en masse. But that wasn't all it was. She altered their bodies. To those that worship battle, their bodies are their sanctuary. Perhaps there was a part of their belief system that made them feel this was evil, that this precluded them from something like a Valhalla.

     

    We don't know, ultimately. The lore is vague on this point. I do have faith in Justin that it wasn't just some idea slapped on paper. If you read their dev spotlights, they take so much time and put so much thought into each stroke of paint, in each cobblestone on the road. I would not believe for an instant that there was not some coherent explanation behind this.

    • 262 posts
    March 19, 2018 3:52 PM PDT

    Interesting Temmi, I like the comparison to Norse warriors. And before all else, respect given to Justin, the true prime creator.

     

    So we may have two options for the Nythirians: their murder of Syronai seemed appropriate to them - they would have rather died than lived weakened, though I think it'd be safe to infer Syronai would have greatly helped the land-dwelling Myr return to the level of their former glory. By killing Syronai, they simultaneously assert their battle prowess, punish what they deem to be entirely unwise (though I can't help but again mention this was coming from Syronai, a being we could assume would be deemed wise by all the world), and die gloriously, potentially keeping faith with a lived tradition.

    Or their sect was not about dying in battle and always being a dominant force (as I don't see much reason to think their weakness as land-dwellers should be permanent), their tradition would not have sanctioned Syronai's killing, and this group collectively had an anger-yism, an immature rage which led them to murder Syronai in a passion.

     

    If the first, this group is seriously aberrant compared with other Myr. That's fine, and maybe what is suggested in the lore. I had an impression of more harmony considering the Issulian pantheon was "unified", but maybe these Nythirians became really more like a fringe group. Wouldn't Nythir be displeased with this, though? Maybe not.

    If the second, they were blockhead-y. They were disastrously immature and far less reliable than other Myr. Is that too much to say?

    I know we'll find out more once the game is released, but fun to speculate! This whole thing of Nythirians murdering Syronai due to this event struck me as implausible at first, but it's cool to have fashioned a couple theories which may explain why they would have done it. The first theory's weak piece is Nythir himself, as the given lore doesn't suggest to me he would sanction that act. But maybe so - he did choose to die rather gloriously, if without much foresight. If this is the case, perhaps the Issulian pantheon should not be considered as unified.

     

    Or the mystery option - the Nythirians were exploited and corrupted somehow. Maybe by Ermos. Which could also at least somewhat justifiably lead to some condemnation of Nythir's teachings, but that could be a separate topic. Considering the Myr currently greet and leave each other by cursing Ermos, maybe they since discovered something which links him to their prime tragedy, the death of Syronai? He is hovering right there, after all. I know we'll find out. And thanks everyone for discussing - I'd be happy to continue if there's anything to consider.

    • 1790 posts
    March 19, 2018 4:38 PM PDT

    Another important thing to note is that the pantheon of gods from Issul were not always unified; they seem to have united only because Myr came out on top by beating back all the other creations. 

     

    "Wars between ancient leviathans had erupted beneath the waves, in battles so fierce even kingdoms on land were destroyed. But the gods of Issul did not stop the calamity, fighting with each other instead of giving aid."

     

    Look at the United States, the states are united but many have very different viewpoints from one another. The same might be true of the "unity" of the gods from Issul, much like how many early polytheistic religions had many gods that were loosely unified (and some that weren't within that group) but with very different personalities and views on what might be appropriate means to make ends meet. 

     

    As for Ermos, I think they just curse him because he was there watching but did nothing to help save Syronai despite his great power.

    • 262 posts
    March 19, 2018 9:42 PM PDT

    A great point Iksar - so now we can have some justification for the Nythirians' act. They didn't revere Syronai above Nythir, and Nythir may not have so seriously condemned Syronai's murder. Still, the Nythirian Myr myrdering their creator does suggest a seriously warped perspective, but that's OK.

     

    Why not curse "The Red" alongside Ermos? Another interesting bit about Ermos:

    "That Thing we call Ermos, he and his world Terminus gouged us of all we love, turning even the waters against us."

    So it seems as if Ermos may have been at least somewhat responsible for the poisoning of the waters. Unless the quote is saying Terminus metaphorically turned the waters against them.

    I wonder still though - why not louder condemnation of the Nythirian Red? Their horrible choice was to blame. Unless this possible undead-raising business was the reason for their attack and the choice was not really theirs - this undead possibility is a strange one. And it certainly seems as if they are undead, from what you've quoted, unless they didn't quite die before their attack:

    "I saw the Nythirian Guard with their twin tridents grasped for battle, hovering below the surface. In my near paralysis, face half under the water and one eye above, I betook the whole of them in perfect battle formation, firm against the death burning up within their bodies. I saw their skin turn red as the breath dried out of them in the acrid underwater breeze, their pose unyielding as statues."

    We could possibly interpret this as a depiction of the Guard very near death, unmoving out of "allegiance" to Nythir's tradition. But then we're told the Red live under the water, and how could they do this without being utterly different from the other Myr? So the undead theory addresses that issue also.

     

    I'll share I personally hope Ermos is revealed to be some kind of necromancer-dragon, and it is ultimately responsible for preventing Syronai from adapting the Myr to Terminus's waters and the corruption/raising of the Nythirians. I can hope! Although I've just realized Syronai was prevented from adapting the Myr to the water while she was still a goddess, so the mysterious force preventing her should probably be on an equal power level - so this supports your presumption that Ermos is a god of Terminus. Unless a powerful, sinister necromancer-dragon (I really like this concept) could have powers rivaling a goddess of Issul..


    This post was edited by Alexander at March 19, 2018 10:46 PM PDT
    • 1790 posts
    March 20, 2018 12:31 PM PDT

    Assuming Ermos is a god even, I don't think it had anything to do with their death. I think the water was just innately poisonous to Myr by being too acidic and they decided to blame Ermos for everything as that was the only possible "deity"/powerful creature they saw and it happened to be there watching (probably drawn over to see what was going on by the miracle of Syronai actually influencing the mortals), though the Red are still their enemy/hate #2. The Celestial Boundary should prevent any such interference of gods at the time without significant cost/consequence (like Syronai sacrificing her godhood/life). 

     

    "Khazas understood the second half of the Celestial Boundary -- namely, the boundary. When Rok’Nhilthamos brokered the Dragon Accord, he may have feared that his own power might, in some manner, be threatened by the new inhabitants of immortal persuasion. (That is my own theory, for even the King of all Dragonkind must know the paranoia of a tyrant). While he may not have been able to forbid they enter his realm, perhaps he bartered for a reduced ability for deities to engage with their devotees. Was this intended to eliminate the chance of a new god gaining enough influence in the mortal realm to threaten significant elements of Dragonkind, chiefly Rok’Nhilthamos himself? I consider such, but have no evidence. While accounts suggest this first iteration of the Boundary was more relaxed than that of today, engagement by a divine being with a mortal was limited and at times ineffectual. Yet this well-intended barrier would become the doorway through which the Ravaging Lord himself would walk soon enough."

     

    Edit to consolidate from the other thread:

    Alexander said:

    I wasn't clear from the quote whether Ermos is indicted as having some part in causing the poison, or if he was just included with the waters of Terminus as causes of their doom.

    Also -

    "With her people still in harm’s keep, Syronai rushed to help the Myr, concentrating her power to transform and adapt the bodies she had created long ago. Yet mysteriously her aid was kept at bay."

    This seems like Ermos, eh? So it seems something prevented her from helping the Myr breathe the poisonous water, and instead sort of forced her to adapt them to dry land. We should have some fan drawings of what we think Ermos looks like, at this stage.

    See above/Celestial Boundary


    This post was edited by Iksar at March 20, 2018 2:08 PM PDT
    • 262 posts
    March 20, 2018 10:05 PM PDT

    I love you Iksar for continuing the discussion! Thank you for quoting me from the other thread here.

     

    I am not so persuaded the Myr would hate Ermos above all else and integrate curses into their daily social customs just because he appeared, watched, and left without a word. I know the lore says:

    "For though he departed with not a word, we speak his name to accuse him and testify of his crimes," but the Myrs' response seems a bit of an overreaction. At least compared to what the Red did. Ermos's crimes were to come, watch, and leave? For all the Myr know, Ermos was just a curious, and possibly even weak, creature who may not have even been able to interfere. Why such an absolute sentence for it? Even if it could have interfered, why would a passive onlooker garner more disdain than the perpetrators?

    Maybe an analogy - someone arrives in a new, foreign city, and they're mugged. There's no police officer system in this city. Someone comes over who could help this person up, and maybe help him track down his stolen wallet and possibly recover it, but they just look for a while and then leave without a word. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to expect the person mugged to curse the criminal and the state of the city before the individual, who they know nothing about, who didn't help?

    We could also say there are two siblings, both new kids at school in the same class. They're not very close. One teases and picks on the other horribly, and a teacher comes by and does nothing. Here the kid being picked on could reasonably curse the teacher possibly before their sibling, as the Myr may have been reluctant to curse their somewhat estranged siblings, the Nythirians. But the difference is Ermos was not understood to be an authority, as a teacher would be - and Ermos definitely did not have the responsibility to give help, as a teacher would have. Also, if we have the same scenario with the siblings as adults - two adult siblings go to a course, one hurts the other, the teacher does nothing - it seems less reasonable for the victim to blame the teacher before the sibling. So there's also a bit of a function of childishness and immaturity in blaming the one who didn't help - which isn't a bad thing, and is totally appropriate for children in my opinion, as adults do have the greater responsibility in relation. I say this only to show how the Myr blaming Ermos before the Red may reveal somewhat of a childish mindset on their part - which may be appropriate if Ermos was vested with the responsibility to help, but he doesn't seem to have been, though it seems the Myr, for some reason, regarded him (it) that way.

     

    Another quote from the lore:

    "Yet there is one “Creature” they blame all things upon, a villain greater than the Nythirian Red, whose vicious actions they rank better than none at all -- "

    Are we considering its approach, survey, and silent departure "vicious"?

     

    About The Celestial Boundary -

    Are we thinking she simply didn't offer her immortality the first time she tried to intervene, and this was the reason "mysteriously her aid was kept at bay"? And it wasn't kept at bay the second time because she approached the work from a different angle, specifically with her willingness to discard immortality? A super nitpicky thing here would be to ask why wouldn't she just try again to adapt them to the water from this different angle? But that's a pretty pointless debate - it is what it is.

    Are we thinking Syronai did all she could, and for whatever reason she was unable to adapt the Myr to the water but was, utilizing the laws of Terminus, able to leverage her immortality for their more drastic transformation? Why, the first time she tried to help, did she not give up her immortality to adapt them to the water? Because she didn't yet feel the The Celestial Boundary, and after realizing it, decided -or had- to choose another outcome for the Myr? Any reason why this land adaption had to have been, or do we just not know?

     

    I am nerding out more than usual 'O-O'


    This post was edited by Alexander at March 20, 2018 10:45 PM PDT
    • 1790 posts
    March 21, 2018 4:05 PM PDT

    Alexander said:

    I am not so persuaded the Myr would hate Ermos above all else and integrate curses into their daily social customs just because he appeared, watched, and left without a word. I know the lore says:

    "For though he departed with not a word, we speak his name to accuse him and testify of his crimes," but the Myrs' response seems a bit of an overreaction. At least compared to what the Red did. Ermos's crimes were to come, watch, and leave? For all the Myr know, Ermos was just a curious, and possibly even weak, creature who may not have even been able to interfere. Why such an absolute sentence for it? Even if it could have interfered, why would a passive onlooker garner more disdain than the perpetrators?

    Maybe an analogy - someone arrives in a new, foreign city, and they're mugged. There's no police officer system in this city. Someone comes over who could help this person up, and maybe help him track down his stolen wallet and possibly recover it, but they just look for a while and then leave without a word. Wouldn't it be more reasonable to expect the person mugged to curse the criminal and the state of the city before the individual, who they know nothing about, who didn't help?

    ...I say this only to show how the Myr blaming Ermos before the Red may reveal somewhat of a childish mindset on their part - which may be appropriate if Ermos was vested with the responsibility to help, but he doesn't seem to have been, though it seems the Myr, for some reason, regarded him (it) that way.

     

    Another quote from the lore:

    "Yet there is one “Creature” they blame all things upon, a villain greater than the Nythirian Red, whose vicious actions they rank better than none at all -- "

    Are we considering its approach, survey, and silent departure "vicious"?

     

    About The Celestial Boundary -

    Are we thinking she simply didn't offer her immortality the first time she tried to intervene, and this was the reason "mysteriously her aid was kept at bay"? And it wasn't kept at bay the second time because she approached the work from a different angle, specifically with her willingness to discard immortality? A super nitpicky thing here would be to ask why wouldn't she just try again to adapt them to the water from this different angle? But that's a pretty pointless debate - it is what it is.

    Are we thinking Syronai did all she could, and for whatever reason she was unable to adapt the Myr to the water but was, utilizing the laws of Terminus, able to leverage her immortality for their more drastic transformation? Why, the first time she tried to help, did she not give up her immortality to adapt them to the water? Because she didn't yet feel the The Celestial Boundary, and after realizing it, decided -or had- to choose another outcome for the Myr? Any reason why this land adaption had to have been, or do we just not know?

     

    I am nerding out more than usual 'O-O'

    One thing of note would be the traits of the Myr themselves:

    "Out of their own way, the Dark Myr of Syronai would perhaps become a contemporary of Thronefast -- even its chief rival. But their native beauty, valor and nobility have rusted down to bitter ornaments. A vast disdain for other races lurks beneath their tranquil surface, calling none friend and few honored as foe...

    ...Syronai fashioned the Myr, a race with kingly hearts and furious might...

    ...The agony of losing Syronai poisoned the Myr hearts as had the deadly oceans, sorrow twisting into bitterness, then hate, until darkness consumed them."

     

    Quickly doubling up on the Nythirian killing Syronai in blind rage: part of it likely ties into that they (Myr) were made kingly and with an attitude of nobility which paired with "furious might" adds to the notion that Nythir's devout might rage out upon losing their status as kings of all oceans/apex predators (also nobility often act childish when things are taken from them).

     

    As for Ermos: It sounds like Issul, their home planet, was also a god/sentient entity of some kind they might think/have thought Terminus too was alive and killing them on purpose, as if it summoned them from their home world just to watch them suffer. Ermos, whatever he is, was just attributed with being the one doing it as he was the first "god" or otherwise powerful seeming entity that they saw in this new strange world. So while the Red killed Syronai, it was this "Ermos" that allowed it to come to that by not doing anything to make the waters non-poisonous and by not doing anything to save Syronai afterward. His viscious actions in this case is actually his inaction, his choice (however much choice he had/if he could have even done anything we don't know) to do nothing. We see that here:

     

    "Yet there is one “Creature” they blame all things upon, a villain greater than the Nythirian Red, whose vicious actions they rank better than none at all

    This line says: They blame the "Creature" (Ermos) with everything. He is a villain greater than the Nythirian Red in the eyes of Myr because his inaction is considered worse than the vicious actions of the Red. To reword the last half: The vicious actions of the Nythirian Red is ranked better (meaning Ermos' is considered worse) than the lack of action from Ermos.  

     

    We see/hear similar things in the real world, the more tragic the incident the more the spotlight turns to those who had power to stop something or intervene but didn't/don't with things like: "How could you let this happen?!" Personally, if I was stabbed and the attacker ran off, then I looked up and saw a cop & medic just standing there watching the whole thing before walking off without a word, I would harbor more hatred for them than the attacker. Lending itself to:

    "The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing."  -Albert Einstein

    "He who does not oppose evil, commands it to be done." -Leonardo da Vinci

    "Your silence is consent." -Plato

    "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." -Desmond Tutu

    "In the end we remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends" -? (often attributed to MLK)

     

    As for the Boundary:

    Yes, it is what blocked her the first time. The second time the massive sacrifice of godhood was able to circumvent the limitations of the Boundary, which was seemingly strengthened after it happened according to:

    "There is the account of the Myr goddess Syronai saving her people despite the Boundary (though at tragic cost) and the persistent possibly that the WarWizard’s were created by the pantheons of each race (which would require such magnificent collusion amongst the gods I struggle to embrace it). Thus we find that whatever principality set this barrier in place between the immortal and mortal severely strengthened it once the War of Gods was over. For where there could be felt a whisper of their divine presence before, the races of Terminus find now it is oft merely a breeze."

    As for why she didn't just re-adapt their bodies we don't know, could be a rushed/panicked decision since her first attmept to simply adapt them didn't work to her maybe thinking some other/stronger hostile god claimed the waters of Terminus so she wanted to remove them from that domain, or anything else really.

    • 47 posts
    March 24, 2018 7:25 PM PDT

    For me I see it as people have the ability to change how things have happen in their mind because if they did not, then they would have no one to blame but themselves and that is something a lot of people are unable to do. So they blame Ermos because otherwise they would have to except that Syronai is gone because of what they did.  

    The agony of losing Syronai poisoned the Myr hearts as had the deadly oceans, sorrow twisting into bitterness, then hate, until darkness consumed them."

    This is saying that they have blamed everything they have lost on everyone else instead of accepting what they did and how the world is now.  

    • 271 posts
    March 24, 2018 8:30 PM PDT

    What a beautiful conversation this has been, everyone. I don't want to mess it up by saying anything other than "thank you."

    Oh and that I'm tickled this exact issue has gotten so much attention from so many passionate hearts and minds. Even if the conclusions are off (or on), the effort put forth has been humbling to read.

    • 16 posts
    March 26, 2018 11:52 AM PDT

    1.) Is Ermos spoken of anywhere else in the lore currently released? I did a quick search but couldn't find mention anyhwere.

    2.) Is Nythir considered dead or just his physical form? 

    In an attempt to save the race, Nythir, the God of Battle, sacrificed his body, which was composed of Issul’s native seas, creating a breathable sphere of water within the ocean.

    Perhaps Nythirs death, or the death of his body during his sacrifice has to do with the rage felt by the Red. Seems like a pretty traumatic thing for all Myr involved to be suddenly ripped from your home and then have 2 of your deities perish in a desperate attempt to save you. Who knows what that could cause.

    Also just a general note, it seemed as though Nythir's sacrifice was for all Myr, not just his faction. Maybe that was an unintentional side effect of just trying to save his followers, and that being the only way to do it. Or maybe this points to a little less divisive situation between the 2 deities.


    This post was edited by woodpipes at March 26, 2018 11:58 AM PDT
    • 83 posts
    March 26, 2018 6:47 PM PDT

    I've read the lore, I've read this thread. Very good discussions. I realize that the backgrounds and lore are likely not set in stone. Maybe there will be a bit more clairity as the game progress's.

    I think that Nythir is dead, his savrifice was only a temporary save and the sphere of water he created did not last long. It appears that Syronai's sacrifice also killed her and she accepted that as it gave her people a more permanent solution that Nythir's. He tried to change the envionment, She changed the body to match the envionment.

    Any stories of lore will give instances of people rising up against their Gods/Goddess's for their actions. People are very good at that.

    I wonder if water breathers survived, maybe in undersea caves, amphibians? Meanwhile, the land dwellers are walking the islands. 

    All imo only. I think there are water breathers under the surface.

    I'm interested in playing the race. Dark Myr look to be very interesting.


    This post was edited by Graysilk at March 26, 2018 6:47 PM PDT
    • 262 posts
    March 26, 2018 11:43 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    "Yet there is one “Creature” they blame all things upon, a villain greater than the Nythirian Red, whose vicious actions they rank better than none at all

    This line says: They blame the "Creature" (Ermos) with everything. He is a villain greater than the Nythirian Red in the eyes of Myr because his inaction is considered worse than the vicious actions of the Red. To reword the last half: The vicious actions of the Nythirian Red is ranked better (meaning Ermos' is considered worse) than the lack of action from Ermos.  

     

    Ah yes, thanks for clarifying - I obviously misread the line.

    Iksar said:

    Personally, if I was stabbed and the attacker ran off, then I looked up and saw a cop & medic just standing there watching the whole thing before walking off without a word, I would harbor more hatred for them than the attacker.

    I would too, but I think Ermos would have been more like a bystander - maybe a strong-looking one, but not in a uniform representing its obligation. We could think the Myr just sensed Ermos's power and so were enraged it didn't help, but to the point of cursing it at every greeting for generations after the event? Those are great quotes, but even we don't make habits of cursing the people who didn't help, though we condemn them. We want to avoid future tragedies so we let everyone know how much responsibility we all have, but generally society understands when people don't act, right? I think we can generally attribute that kind of inaction to a fear we all know, and in that way our society can actually show some empathy. But these are Myr, not us, hehe, and traumatized Myr. So of course they could respond differently. But still, to incorporate Ermos into their lives in such a fundamental way? It shows they truly blame it for their tragedy. We all know we're going to find out more about Ermos, and respect to you, Iksar, for crafting complete theories with the little information we have.

    Iksar said:

    As for why she didn't just re-adapt their bodies we don't know, could be a rushed/panicked decision since her first attmept to simply adapt them didn't work to her maybe thinking some other/stronger hostile god claimed the waters of Terminus so she wanted to remove them from that domain, or anything else really.

    Excellent thinking.

     

    Istuulamae said:

    What a beautiful conversation this has been, everyone. I don't want to mess it up by saying anything other than "thank you."

    Oh and that I'm tickled this exact issue has gotten so much attention from so many passionate hearts and minds. Even if the conclusions are off (or on), the effort put forth has been humbling to read.

    I am honored, and thank you! Little tease there, this exact issue...


    This post was edited by Alexander at March 26, 2018 11:49 PM PDT
    • 1014 posts
    April 16, 2018 11:40 AM PDT

     

    I guess I think they can and above ground also.  I have visions of a grand city underwater with protective domes and areas where three are none.  Fleets of ships that fly under water and entire commerce built around that.  As with the Gnomes, the Myr are unique and I am sure(fingers crossed) will have the ability to breath under water.   

     

    Still very interesting lore that surrounds them.