Forums » The Elves

Ashen or Ember

    • 100 posts
    February 16, 2018 9:57 PM PST

    I'm leaning in favor of an Ember Enchanter or Shaman for launch. How about you?


    This post was edited by Haseno at February 16, 2018 10:19 PM PST
    • 34 posts
    February 17, 2018 7:36 PM PST

    I would have loved to play an Ashen Cleric but I'm happy to get my Dark Myr healing gig on. That said, I am so stoked to play an Ember Summoner because much as I love healing, sometimes it's fun to blow stuff up.  <3

     


    This post was edited by Heloisa at February 17, 2018 7:37 PM PST
    • 271 posts
    February 18, 2018 2:47 PM PST

    Question for you all -

    Do you feel like we have done a good job setting up *some* of the differences between the Ashen and Ember? Do you feel like you can identify them from each other, yet also see how they don't outwardly hate each other? That they aren't two separate subraces, etc?

    Looks like I asked more than one question. Alas!

    • 528 posts
    February 19, 2018 4:08 AM PST

    Istuulamae said:

    Question for you all -

    Do you feel like we have done a good job setting up *some* of the differences between the Ashen and Ember? Do you feel like you can identify them from each other, yet also see how they don't outwardly hate each other? That they aren't two separate subraces, etc?

    Looks like I asked more than one question. Alas!



    I think you did a good job explaining that they both have the Elves best interest at heart but are attacking it from different angles. Like two political parties having different opinions about which way the nation should go.

    So good job - unless I have it all wrong xD


    -sorte.

    • 3426 posts
    February 19, 2018 5:28 AM PST

    Istuulamae said:

    Question for you all -

    Do you feel like we have done a good job setting up *some* of the differences between the Ashen and Ember? Do you feel like you can identify them from each other, yet also see how they don't outwardly hate each other? That they aren't two separate subraces, etc?

    Looks like I asked more than one question. Alas!

    Yeah I think it's actually very clear that they are just two sides of the same coin. (Feel free to steal that metaphor if you haven't already lol) They seem to simply have very different "solutions" to a common problem. I think that's something that arises in real life pretty regularly and is therefore quite relatable. For example, you think it should be done this way and I think it should be done that way. The views may contradict in some ways, but ultimately we're on the same side trying to reach the same goal. That's how I see it anyway. I look forward to learning more about how these differences apply to actual gameplay and character creation though.

    • 13 posts
    February 19, 2018 5:44 AM PST

    I'm sure I'll have an elf alt in there somewhere but IDK which class it'd be yet.

    Thinking if I go for a caster or druid type elf I'll probably do Ashen and if I go for a more aggressive feeling class like a Warrior or Ranger then Ember. Just to match ^_^

    • 16 posts
    February 19, 2018 9:47 AM PST

    Sorte said:

    [blockquote]Istuulamae said:

    Question for you all -

    Do you feel like we have done a good job setting up *some* of the differences between the Ashen and Ember? Do you feel like you can identify them from each other, yet also see how they don't outwardly hate each other? That they aren't two separate subraces, etc?

    Looks like I asked more than one question. Alas!



    I think you did a good job explaining that they both have the Elves best interest at heart but are attacking it from different angles. Like two political parties having different opinions about which way the nation should go.

    So good job - unless I have it all wrong xD


    -sorte.

    [/blockquote]

     

    To be honest, in lore yes; BUT, without being in game, it is hard to say how well the differentiation is represented. I admit, I am still trying to get my head around the direction and choices VR has gone with the Elves.

    • 799 posts
    February 19, 2018 12:05 PM PST

    Istuulamae said:

    Question for you all -

    Do you feel like we have done a good job setting up *some* of the differences between the Ashen and Ember? Do you feel like you can identify them from each other, yet also see how they don't outwardly hate each other? That they aren't two separate subraces, etc?

    Looks like I asked more than one question. Alas!

    Relating them to what we already know makes comparing the two to wood elf and high elf fairly easy even though they aren't supposed to be separate subraces.  I don't think you are going to be able to get away from that unless they are made more similar. 

    There is nothing to say that the "standard" wood elves and high elves that we know from Tolkein or EQ etc didn't start out as the same race but over many generations they separated into two "sub races".  I think a good job was done separating the Ashen and Ember and explaining the differences, but at the same time explaining the similarities and that they still get along with each other regardless of their differences. 

    It shouldn't matter if people consider them subraces that get along with each other...or the same race that has grown apart and adapted different ways of living.  They are very similar perspectives.

     

     


    This post was edited by philo at February 19, 2018 2:28 PM PST
    • 399 posts
    February 20, 2018 8:11 PM PST

    Istuulamae said:

    Question for you all -

    Do you feel like we have done a good job setting up *some* of the differences between the Ashen and Ember? Do you feel like you can identify them from each other, yet also see how they don't outwardly hate each other? That they aren't two separate subraces, etc?

    Looks like I asked more than one question. Alas!

    I understand the premise behind the Ember and Ashen (really all three if you count the Lucent as well.) The terrific conversation between Forrest, Jared, Justin and Chis in the newsletter paints a clear picture! My understanding is that the three types of elves are different in how they relate to the outside world and what they think is best for all the elves as a whole. The Ashen being the more inwardly focused of the three, believing the elven way is best. The Ember are more proactive in seeking out and destroying others who could potentially threaten their well being while the Lucent fall somwhere in between. Based on the concept art it looks like it'll be easy enough to distiguish between the two ends of the spectrum. 

    However, what I'm not quite clear on is what(who?) determines if an elf is Ember, Ashen or Lucent? You say they aren't separate subraces. I'm not sure why that is. Do they decide for themselves which they will choose? Is Ashen, Ember and Lucent more of an ideology the elves choose for themselves at some point? Are they raised as a particular type? Born into it? Can an Ember elf become an Ashen and vice versa? Why do the two elves in the concept art look physically different from one another if they aren't subraces? 

    So I think I understand the differences in the philosophical outlooks between the types I just don't know how and why they got there or where it leads... maybe those are questions that will be answered as more lore becomes available. hint, hint :)

    All in all, this is an excellent contribution to the newsletter! I love the direction elves are taking, I love the art and architecture and the fact that this is a new take on elves! I can't wait to explore their mountain home and find out more!

     - Mal  


    This post was edited by Malsirian at February 20, 2018 8:12 PM PST
    • 67 posts
    February 22, 2018 8:09 AM PST

    The divide between Ashen and Ember really helped me understand why Elves can't be Clerics. The Ashen Elves, so involved in the past of their people, would be natural Shaman, who draw strength from ancestry and the past. The Ember, looking outward, driven by their former glory and smouldering with passion, go with the natural world and would be excellent Druids. Furthermore, the Ashen, who spend great amounts of time connected to their past and present as a tree-dwelling people that commune with nature, are excellent druids. The Ember are motivated by the ghosts of Elves past and spend a great deal of time preoccupied with the races without. The long-lived Ember could see entire generations of enemies be born, live, and die, and it stands to reason that they could learn to manipulate that ancestral link and become fine Shaman.

    With the Ashen and Ember being so suited to being Druids and Shaman... what room is there for Clerics in their society? Their Gods are hardly mentioned in the Lore we have, with Aellos and Dythiir being instrumental with their former societies but scarcely thought of in their current form. I can picture the Elven Clerics slowly disappear as the Elves' obsession with their past and their ancestors turn them to Shamanism. I still believe that the remnants of the Clerical orders could birth a few generations of Lucent Paladins that turn the former Clerical tradition of the Elves to the purpose of keeping their fundamentally divided society together despite the deep idealogical differences between them.

    Elf Paladins shouldn't need Elf Clerics VR. The pieces are all there, and we need another race to be Paladins. Don't let the Dwarves and Humans have all the glory!


    This post was edited by Darchias at February 22, 2018 8:10 AM PST
    • 1698 posts
    February 22, 2018 2:19 PM PST

    I don't believe Elves ever had clerics. Their love of nature and ancestry likely comes from their gods, as such their gods also likely imparted unto them the ways of druidry and shamanism instead of some strict order of clerics. 

     

    Malsirian said:

     

    However, what I'm not quite clear on is what(who?) determines if an elf is Ember, Ashen or Lucent? You say they aren't separate subraces. I'm not sure why that is. Do they decide for themselves which they will choose? Is Ashen, Ember and Lucent more of an ideology the elves choose for themselves at some point? Are they raised as a particular type? Born into it? Can an Ember elf become an Ashen and vice versa? Why do the two elves in the concept art look physically different from one another if they aren't subraces? 

    They are one race, just different factions/ideologies within. The two elves in the concept art look pretty much exactly the same as far as I can tell, one being a bit more tan perhaps but a ranger would be more tan than a studious wizard. 


    This post was edited by Iksar at February 22, 2018 2:26 PM PST
    • 240 posts
    February 22, 2018 4:49 PM PST

    Istuulamae said:

    Question for you all -

    Do you feel like we have done a good job setting up *some* of the differences between the Ashen and Ember? Do you feel like you can identify them from each other, yet also see how they don't outwardly hate each other? That they aren't two separate subraces, etc?

    Looks like I asked more than one question. Alas!

    As Baz stated difficult to say if not in game , but i do see the difference from what whats told in the Feb newsletter . Same but different . each with there own beliefs on how to go forward . I have to say again i love the color palette .

    • 271 posts
    February 25, 2018 7:53 PM PST

    Thanks for the feedback, everyone. It helps to hear from your perspective what is and what is not coming through.

    To Malsirian, and anyone else wondering about this, what Iksar said is very close to the bullseye. All Elves are born Lucent then may become Ashen, Ember or remain Lucent. Ember and Ashen are powerful branches within the larger Elven tree, yet not trees of their own.

    While there are certainly hereditary bents or traits toward one or the other (or to stay Lucent), there is no DNA-based, predetermined course. Are there families who challenge this fact because of their strict adherence to one side or the other? Sure, and there are rebels, purists, favored sons and black sheep just like any other family tree.

    As for the apparent physical differences between the two, there are some lore-based reasons I'd like to mention.

    First, the Ashen deliberately avoid bringing additional attention to themselves. That isn't to say their ceremonies aren't striking or their clothing is a burlap sack, but they would rather seek to elevate the stories and scriptures of their people than their own image. They are genuinely pious and humble. As for their pale complexion, Ashen will 1) spend less time outdoors and thus in sunlight than other Elves, on account of their study-based lifestyle and daily habits. 2) They will paint their faces in white-grey ash for ceremony or in times of meditation or battle. This will often remain in the skin, even after ceremonial washing, and they may apply a faux ash powder to keep the skin a similar color. Along with this they often dye their hair a coal black and straighten it like a slab of marble.

    Ember are much the opposite -- at least within the bounds of Elven tastes. They aren't flashy in a Thronefastian sense, but they are far more comfortable with making an entrance than an Ashen would be. They enjoy the outdoors and the animal kingdom, counting many as companions. Ember love nature for its colorful array along with its preserving and enduring strengths, and their hair, clothing and complexion reflect that admiration. The freckles on the female Ember would be visible on the male Ashen, if they weren’t covered up.

    Once again, thank you all for the feedback. It is very helpful to hear. Take care.



     


    This post was edited by Istuulamae at February 25, 2018 7:55 PM PST