Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

How long to get a group?

    • 49 posts
    February 13, 2018 4:29 PM PST

    Reading through the "what does two hours mean to you" thread showed several people think 30 minutes to get a group seems like a reasonable amount of time.  I'm curious why spending 25% of potential gaming time would be considered acceptable.  I know many like to talk about hardcore gaming, but does standing around waiting prove hardcoreness or is it simply an indication that the content or game design isn't sufficient to keep players playing the game.

    Sure, some folks will say standing around is playing the game, but some folks will say it's a waste of the one resource no one has enough of.  I've seen some replies along the lines of do tradeskills or have some kind of game in the game to play but those options are just distractions for people who want to engage in combat (aka playing the game).

    I understand why an LFG tool could take away from the group/social focused intent behind the game, but at the same time there are ways a tool could be designed to encourage social interaction.  Imagine an LFG tool that is basically a chat lobby where people can talk and find a group.  That would keep people social, make groups easier to find, and keep an area chat feed free of spam.

     

    What about having dungeons be ultra large with enough space to support dozens of groups instead of just a few?  Different wings of the dungeon are for different levels and have different themes.  The center of the dungeon has ultra strong mobs for raid targets or impromptu events.  A dungeon that can fit 150-200 people should make finding a group very easy.  Constant turnover and movement should keep spots available.  

    Big dungeons would also mean there's not as much need to travel across large chunks of the map regularly.  Which would mean one long trip a week wouldn't get boring compared to taking the same trip four to six times per week in order to find a group.

     

    In the end I think a hardcore game based on grouping has to have an easy way of finding and getting to the group.  For me hardcore doesn't mean wasting time, it means the content is challenging and makes me work hard to defeat the encounters.  

    • 30 posts
    February 13, 2018 5:10 PM PST

    I agree with you Ruar . I have said it before but not all QoL changes are bad. I feel like some people forget how frustrating EQ could be. I am playing p99 right now , grouping can be hard, I either get one right away or i could be waiting for hours. Next thing I know play time is over and I didn't do anything , and soloing is not really effective . Granted this is a problem for the level I'm at (28)

    Adding to the dungeon part, why not have a safe spot 2 hours down in a dungeon where I can log out safely , or we can break for a quick bio/drink. If you want to spend 6+ hours crawling that's fine just keep going . How does having a safe spot make the game leas enjoyable ? If the content is built right the fun and difficulty is in the social combat.

    Please forgive any mistakes and formatting as I'm currently on my phone.


    This post was edited by Kikadurr at February 13, 2018 5:15 PM PST
    • 95 posts
    February 13, 2018 5:48 PM PST

    I do not believe waiting 30 minutes for a group was the norm in EQ i played it in open beta and when it released and usually found a group within 5 minutes. On the rare occasion you didn't would just solo blue or green mobs until a group opening opened up. Or explore.

    Pre-planing was key if we were doing a particular dungeon thats where we would log off so we could start back up the next day.

    • 284 posts
    February 13, 2018 6:12 PM PST

    It's a pretty subjective topic. At what point in the game are we talking about, and what level range? Do you have RL friends that you regularly play with? Are you in a guild? Are you friendly towards others or kind of a ... jackal? What class are you playing? A ranger, for example, may have a harder time finding a group than a cleric. Are you LFG at peak hours or 2 AM? And the choices you make are important as well. Did you go to a more populated dungeon/area? Are you being proactive and messaging people in your level range, or just sitting somewhere shouting "LFG" every 10 minutes?

    There's a lot of factors that will determine how easily/consistently a person will get a group. If you're seriously worried about it, pick a class that can solo. Or a class that groups find highly desirable. Make friends that you can play with consistently. Join a guild that has members that play at the same times you usually play. Be kind to others. Etc...

    Will this all guarantee that you will never sit around for a little while waiting for a group? No. But I think it's extremely pessimistic and unreasonable to expect that every time you seek a group you'll have to wait for 30 minutes or more. I would say that is the exception not the rule. And if you do the above, or even some of the above, you will usually find a group quite easily.

    I imagine there will be a basic LFG window so that you and groups can more easily find each other. Anything beyond that is not necessary and begins to take away from the game IMO. I imagine most people aren't opposed to most QOL features simply because the QOL feature makes something easier (althought that is the case sometimes--I like to call them carebear features) but because these things begin to negatively impact important aspects of the game like immersion and sociality. I feel like MMOs now have turned their backs on both of these features, and that's a real shame because IMO those are the features that make a MMO a world. Otherwise you're left with a theme park where you can see other people but they don't really matter as the game does all the socializing for you (auction houses, instances, automated group finders/creators, instant teleportation by any class to any part of the world). These things are why I don't even enjoy MMOs anymore.

    Just my 2c

    • 895 posts
    February 13, 2018 6:39 PM PST

    I'm curious why spending 25% of potential gaming time would be considered acceptable. 

    I feel like the 2 hour limit was given as that is a good general average minimum time required in order to group (including forming a group, traveling to a dungeon, possibly finding an open camp/getting there and fighting mobs for a reasonable amount of time etc.). 

    It might be acceptable because what was listed was the bare minimum.  Often people will have a longer play period. 

    A half hour to find a group, form up and travel to a dungeon and lock down a camp seems very reasonable. (if not a little to quick).

     


    This post was edited by philo at February 13, 2018 7:38 PM PST
    • 679 posts
    February 13, 2018 7:12 PM PST

    I think this from Brad relevant to your conversation.

    Matchmaking systems, what we're up to, and why. Part 1

     

     I'm  not so sure VR expects it to take 30min to find a group. That was users saying that.

    • 2393 posts
    February 13, 2018 7:31 PM PST

    The dungeon finder queue in WoW often took longer than 30 minutes if you played a DPS class so I don't think 30 minutes is unreasonable at all if we're talking about doing things the old fashioned way.  Players can always take control of their own destiny and plan ahead with people from their guild or friends list.  If you are the kind of player that expects to PUG your way through the game, you should probably play a tank or healer as they usually have a much easier time getting a group or starting one themselves.  If you don't want to play a tank or healer then you should have a bunch of both on your friends list.  One thing I have learned over the years is that communication is key.  If you just spam the channels with "Level X (Insert DPS Class) LFG, PST" you are putting yourself at the mercy of others.  I would always do a player search and send tells to every person in my level range if they weren't AFK.  It was probably 400% more efficient than any results driven from LFG spam.  You might catch someone in the middle of crafting or trading, or even working on a solo quest who wasn't necessarily LFG but when they see an offer to group they are willing to drop what they are doing.

    As far as massive dungeons are concerned, sign me up!  Same deal with an enhanced LFG tool.  Information is power but it's up to each individual player to utilize that which is available.  There will be times where you may just have to wait around before being able to get into a group.  It is what it is.  We all want a game where grouping is the primary focus of the game and that obviously requires the assistance of other players.  I think a major issue with modern MMO's is that players have gotten into the habit of viewing other people as a commodity but I will admit that this is mostly a by-product of features like Dungeon Finder.  Hopefully there will be plenty of horizontal progression opportunities for players to focus on that can help keep them occupied while they are LFG.  If Content is King then other players are the exclusive set of keys to the castle.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at February 13, 2018 7:32 PM PST
    • 715 posts
    February 13, 2018 10:08 PM PST

    I think there is a danger about thinking about human interactions in terms of numbers.

    Thinking back to old EQ, there were times where I could get a group literally within minutes of logging in.  Just a simple "/lfg on" and the tells would come.  There were also plenty of times where I'd have the LFG thing up, be in the zone, and be periodically advertising in /ooc and... nothing.  No love.

    Then again, there were times where my group was my guildmates or people on my friends list from previous sessions, and there were also times where it was random people I'd never met before.  There were times when my groups were pre-planned, and there were times when they were completely spontaneous.  There were times where I jumped in someone else's group and times where I picked up 2 or 3 people who were also looking and just made one of my own.

    People aren't machines.  We don't behave in predictable ways.  We don't even keep track of averages all that well.  Was my average time to find a group back in EQ 5 minutes?  10?  30?  an hour?  Heck if I know, it's not like I had a stopwatch and was writing it down.

    So trying to say "oh you should never spend more than X% of your time looking for a group" will never work.  All that attitude will do is breed dissatisfaction.

    Instead, we should be saying "what tools should we have to help us find (or form) groups?"

    For my part, here's a partial list:

    - Robust, yet simple LFG tool that allows for us to say what we're looking for in addition to all the game-generated stuff like class, level, and so on.

    - Easy-to-use friends list that lets us see who of our friends is online and what they're doing (and send them tells)

    - Easy-to-use guild interface for the same

    - Limited-range "call of the hero" style teleports.  If I make it to the entrance of dungeon, you can summon me down to where you're at.

    - "Waiting list" for group membership.  If I know I've got to leave in 30 minutes, I can recruit someone, add them to the group waiting list, and once I leave the group, they automatically get an invite.

     

     

     

    • 2393 posts
    February 13, 2018 11:53 PM PST

    Great insight as always Nephele.  To answer your question about tools, here are a couple that I would like to see added:

    --  Option to add players to your friends list on an account wide level (You can see if one of your friends is playing an alt  --  this feature should be mutually agreed upon by both players and can be temporarily hidden by either party)

    --  Backdoor Keys.  I saw a few of these in EQ2, particularly with the larger dungeons.  (Ruins of Varsoon, Solusek's Eye)  Basically players could do a quest in the zone that opens up a hidden entrance shortcut that grants access to a safe spot deeper in the zone.  The quest should involve a rare NPC that maybe only spawns a few times a day.  I would enjoy doing side quests like these as they offer a rather cool form of player utility that isn't restricted to any class.

    --  This one is less of a "tool" for players to use, but more of design philosophy.  I would love to see a variety of "gathering point" areas (taverns!) scattered throughout the world.  You wouldn't need to set them up directly outside of dungeons, but maybe somewhere along the way.  Black Swan Inne from EQOA was awesome for this.  These could be areas that players might choose to bind to and could offer minimal amenities.  A few crafting stations and generic merchants would be fine.  This could also be a great place for bards to play some tunes, for players to try and sell/trade with each other, grab some food/drink, or maybe even play some sort of built-in Pantheon themed card game.

    --  When thinking of the above, what if some of these taverns had patrol squads that might leave the tavern and head to a dungeon or deeper area of the zone?  Maybe this only happens once per hour, on the hour, and these patrols only do this in the level 10-20 or 10-30 range zones.  This could potentially allow players to make the journey from Point A to Point B in the relative safety of the guards.  It wouldn't be the quickest route or offer any sort of reward but if it allows a solo player to tag along and get to the next area without dying, it could create a semi-consistent flow of players that make their way to the dungeon entrances that otherwise may not have been able to get there.

    Let's say Player A sees that Group A is looking for a level 25+ warrior for Dungeon B.  Player A knows that he can't make it to the dungeon by himself and Group A doesn't really want to drop what they are doing and pick him up, either.  Player A could let Group A know that the patrol is going to leave in 5 minutes and he'll be there in 10-15.  This is a tough one because I know the world should feel dangerous but at the same time, I think it would be nice to see patrol NPC's that actually do something in the world.  You could offer something like this early on and then phase it out as content becomes more difficult.  Organized groups would either take the quicker route (and do so at their leisure) or the more dangerous route and try to pick off a few names along the way.  I don't know, this feels like a little bit of a reach but if it can help with onboarding maybe it's worth considering.

     

    I read this article earlier and I feel pretty meh about it:  https://www.engadget.com/2014/03/21/ask-massively-too-many-mmos-still-lack-serious-lfg-tools/


    This post was edited by oneADseven at February 14, 2018 12:13 AM PST
    • 18 posts
    February 14, 2018 12:15 AM PST

    To put a group finder in to the game is ok, as long it is well made. For example, create a black board in all the main cities and taverns. So you can plan a farming or a dungeon group a day before you need it.

    One thing people seem to forget is, the actual travel time. Finding a group is one thing but to team up with everybody is what is taking so long.


    This post was edited by Ayren at February 14, 2018 12:15 AM PST
    • 63 posts
    February 14, 2018 6:06 AM PST

    If you are worried about how long to find a group play either a tank or healer they are always needed.

     In almost all mmos damage dealers -support are common.

     

     


    This post was edited by Kiera at February 14, 2018 6:10 AM PST
    • 1299 posts
    February 14, 2018 7:51 AM PST

    Most of us probably have less time to spend uninterrupted just playing a computer game than we once did. I think two hours is far too long to be a minimum time to play productively. Granted anything much shorter might be better spent adventuring solo or crafting, which is one reason I have been an advocate for plenty of things that can be done solo but that are LESS productive than group content so as not to be more attractive to players when they do have time to group.

    While I don't want it to be too easy to bypass content, I also don't really see tedious time wasting as "hardcore". If it takes half an hour to form a group and then another half hour for the slowest or furthest person to get to where the adventure is that is a LOT of unproductive time. And then when everyone is finally there good bet a person or two went afk while waiting and isn't back yet.

    I would guess that most of us would foam at the mouth at the thought of a groupfinder that teleports the group to a dungeon. Why? Because we see that as typical in "modern" games that are too easy, too simple (not quite the same thing) and generally evil in all respects. Even if that teleport returns us to precisely where we were when the group breaks up or if we leave the dungeon (whatever comes first) so that we cannot use it to bypass exploration and content.

    But older games often did have conveniences that allowed one or more classes to summon or be summoned by others. Because these have a longer history in the MMO world and are somewhat less intrusive than a "full service" groupfinder perhaps a few classes can be given this type of ability - perhaps classes that are near the bottom of the "useful to a group" list to help balance that out.


    This post was edited by dorotea at February 14, 2018 7:52 AM PST
    • 284 posts
    February 14, 2018 9:40 AM PST

    dorotea said:

    Most of us probably have less time to spend uninterrupted just playing a computer game than we once did. I think two hours is far too long to be a minimum time to play productively. Granted anything much shorter might be better spent adventuring solo or crafting, which is one reason I have been an advocate for plenty of things that can be done solo but that are LESS productive than group content so as not to be more attractive to players when they do have time to group.

    While I don't want it to be too easy to bypass content, I also don't really see tedious time wasting as "hardcore". If it takes half an hour to form a group and then another half hour for the slowest or furthest person to get to where the adventure is that is a LOT of unproductive time. And then when everyone is finally there good bet a person or two went afk while waiting and isn't back yet.

    I would guess that most of us would foam at the mouth at the thought of a groupfinder that teleports the group to a dungeon. Why? Because we see that as typical in "modern" games that are too easy, too simple (not quite the same thing) and generally evil in all respects. Even if that teleport returns us to precisely where we were when the group breaks up or if we leave the dungeon (whatever comes first) so that we cannot use it to bypass exploration and content.

    But older games often did have conveniences that allowed one or more classes to summon or be summoned by others. Because these have a longer history in the MMO world and are somewhat less intrusive than a "full service" groupfinder perhaps a few classes can be given this type of ability - perhaps classes that are near the bottom of the "useful to a group" list to help balance that out.



    First Highlight: I think this is a false assumption, and I've seen it thrown around by several people as a fact. Some people will have less time, and some people will have more. I, personally, have an exponentially greater amount of time than when I first played Everquest. I know several people who have far more time now than they did when EQ first came out.

    Second Highlight: Nobody wants things in the game simply because they're tedious and time wasting. I assure you, nobody would say, "I think every player who wants to enter this dungeon needs to sit outside the dungeon for 20 minutes spinning in a circle before they're allowed to enter. That would be pointless and tedious. It would add nothing to a player's experience or immersion. People want things in game for a reason. People don't want simple, instant travel, for example, because it waters the game down. The world feels smaller and less immersive. People out adventuring see far fewer people running around, making the world feel emptier. Otherwise... why not instantly teleport anywhere you want at any time? Simply running through a city to the bank is a waste of time. Why not just teleport around willy-nilly from zone to zone, city to city, building to building? I know, it sounds stupid. It sounds like a strawman. But if people only have a short amount of time, why should they have to spend 10 minutes running across a zone? It's just tedious, time wasting running which has no benefit to the player. This is the direction MMOs have taken, and it's gotten absurd.

    Good planning/class choice will fix a lot of the time issues for people.

    Third Highlight: This is one of the features that really started to take WoW down an awful path. Hell, it got to the point where most people didn't even know how to even get to the various dungeons. Leveling became: Sit inside the city, just standing around, and queue for a dungeon. Without talking to anyone, a group is automatically formed and POOF, you're in the dungeon with some strangers. Play the dungeon for a bit, then you're instantly back in the city, waiting to do the same thing over again. Okay. What a fun, interesting, immersive world...  If Pantheon did this, I'd quit. I'm so tired of MMOs doing this. These games aren't 'worlds' anymore. There's no immersion. There's no real gratification in anything you do. When I gain levels and get gear in these games, I'm indifferent to it. Zero pride in my character. It's just going through the motions like everyone else. Easy gains for little effort. And because of that, I've quit every MMO since vanilla WoW within one month. MMOs shouldn't be only about combat and being where you want to be, when you want to be there. They should be much, much more than that. Thankfully, Brad and VR understand this, and that's the only reason I'm giving Pantheon a chance. Before I heard about Pantheon, I had zero interest in MMOs. The genre is pretty much dead to me.

    Fourth Highlight: I would be perfectly happy with a feature like this. Give the summoning ability to a couple classes and make summoning ingredients expensive in order to minimize people just skipping around. Same zone only. Also, no, making the ingredients expensive wouldn't be punishing those classes. People and groups would chip in and in many cases even tip the summoner.

    Sorry if the verbage is harsh/stern, but that's how I feel. Not trying to attack you personally; just disgusted with where the genre has gone...

    • 1299 posts
    February 14, 2018 10:36 AM PST

    Point 1 - I gave it as an assumption not a fact and it may well be false. We would have to do a survey to find out and it probably doesn't matter that much. What is certain is that some people have loads of time. some people have less, and VR won't want to limit the subscriber base to people that almost always have quite a few hours in a row to play. By the way I am in your category - more time now than I used to have.

    Point 2. I guess my basic point is that we should only have significant timesinks with a reason. We may all agree that "modern" MMOs have gotten ridiculous. We will not all agree on what "conveniences" are actually useful and what "conveniences" wreck immersion and make things too easy. I am not at all sure that a teleport to a place I have already been (thus not bypassing exploration) solely for the purpose of making a dungeon more convenient to get a group for (in a game that places a huge value on grouping) is a bad thing, with proper safeguards to prevent exploitation (such as teleport right back if I try to leave the dungeon).  Note that I didn't actually advocate such a thing - the disadvantages you mention may outweigh the advantages. I am just not sure that they do.

    Point 3. Under no circumstances whatsoever would I want a teleport to a place I have never gotten to the hard way. I am not as convinced as you that I need to ride or walk from point A to point B the  5th or 10th or 100th time to keep the feeling of being in a real world. As long as the teleport is for a very limited use. Note that I keep saying dungeon. It isn't that dungeons are the only reason to form groups - but a teleport limited to the inside of a dungeon not allowing me to leave the dungeon without being teleported right back where I came from seems less immersion busting. 

    I agree that the genre has gotten ridiculous - almost all of us do. I agree that we shouldn't have teleports to dungeons - I was trying to say that I didn't find it that *terrible* idea if properly limited I was *not* advocating it. Anything that makes many of us foam at the mouth (my words) is a terrible idea. I probably shouldn't even have mentioned it, I was just leading in to the point about summoning.


    This post was edited by dorotea at February 14, 2018 10:38 AM PST
    • 1830 posts
    February 14, 2018 10:39 AM PST

    I really don't think it is going to be a long or tedious thing to find groups, even as a DPS. If you log out where you are hunting for xp then you log in, camp check, send tells to whichever camps you want to try and get on a list for (if they are keeping one) then toggle lfg and /ooc LFG.

     

    30 minutes will likely be on the higher end of wait times (during the day/evening). 

    • 851 posts
    February 14, 2018 2:41 PM PST

    I don't know about particular time estimates (except to say 30 minutes (in EQ) does not sound unusual (though not desirable) at all) but one thing that was VERY annoying and a WASTE of time in EQ was people DIDN'T USE THE LFG TOOL when there was one!

    Excuse caps, please, but I found it infuriating.  It was a perfectly adequate tool and would have saved a LOT of time (uncountable hours added up) of frustration.

    Because people just wouldn't use the tool, you would have to travel to the zone in which you wanted/needed to group and if you left to try another or do something else you can bet when a group came up you missed the spot for someone more willing to sit and wait doing nothing.

    I don't really want summonings or teleports, I don't mind travel, I just don't want to have to only be able to /OOC LFG in one small area at a time and waste hours travelling between or waiting in those areas.

    A good point from above would be to add waiting list management, filters and searches and the like to any LFG tool.  All that stuff you'd end up doing painfully yourself and is only a hindrence to both community and gaming fun.

    • 820 posts
    February 14, 2018 3:09 PM PST

    disposalist said:

    I don't know about particular time estimates (except to say 30 minutes (in EQ) does not sound unusual (though not desirable) at all) but one thing that was VERY annoying and a WASTE of time in EQ was people DIDN'T USE THE LFG TOOL when there was one!

    Excuse caps, please, but I found it infuriating.  It was a perfectly adequate tool and would have saved a LOT of time (uncountable hours added up) of frustration.

    As a note, I was one of those that never used the LFG tool. There were a couple reasons. 

    1. I just forgot about it, and got too used to /ooc advertizement - or I would simply create my own group, and;

    2. My biggest pet peeve in MMO's are drive-by-invites. I absolutely detest when someone runs by and tosses a group /invite without so much as a /tell "howdy doody". Having a giant LFG tag above my character just seemed to make people think doing that was OK. This is a personal gripe, but a huge reason why I didn't make use of the tool. 

    Just thinking about those drive-by invites get me all riled up. For MMO's being social in nature, people go to great lengths to NOT be social, sometimes, and I just don't get it. 

    • 1830 posts
    February 14, 2018 4:37 PM PST

    disposalist said:

    Because people just wouldn't use the tool, you would have to travel to the zone in which you wanted/needed to group and if you left to try another or do something else you can bet when a group came up you missed the spot for someone more willing to sit and wait doing nothing.

     

    Eh, this didn't happen too much to me. Log in and do a camp check, message each group you'd want to get into and get on the list, and 7/10 times I'd get a message 10-15 minutes before someone leaving would send a tell saying to start heading to the camp.

     

    But a wait list managing tool would be nice. 


    This post was edited by Iksar at February 14, 2018 4:38 PM PST
    • 1299 posts
    February 14, 2018 4:42 PM PST

    I am guessing that some of this discussion will be proven moot because Pantheon will have a very good better than state-of-the-art LFG tool. Probably one that lets you queue for groups anywhere in the world *from* anywhere in the world, with possible exceptions. It may or may not form groups though it almost surely will not provide transportation to groups.

    • 194 posts
    February 14, 2018 7:42 PM PST

    I LFG for about 30 minutes before logging......but pantheon should have a little solo action for the wait time.  LFG time in EQ was all about your class and social network (guild , friends etc).  


    This post was edited by bryanleo9 at February 14, 2018 7:43 PM PST
    • 194 posts
    February 14, 2018 7:46 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    I really don't think it is going to be a long or tedious thing to find groups, even as a DPS. If you log out where you are hunting for xp then you log in, camp check, send tells to whichever camps you want to try and get on a list for (if they are keeping one) then toggle lfg and /ooc LFG.

     

    30 minutes will likely be on the higher end of wait times (during the day/evening). 

     

    DPS will be a dime a dozen as they are in all the MMO's I have played and I can see them having long wait times for groups.  Healers and tanks on the other hand will probably not wait long at all.  

    • 715 posts
    February 14, 2018 10:25 PM PST

    Tralyan said:

    2. My biggest pet peeve in MMO's are drive-by-invites. I absolutely detest when someone runs by and tosses a group /invite without so much as a /tell "howdy doody". Having a giant LFG tag above my character just seemed to make people think doing that was OK. This is a personal gripe, but a huge reason why I didn't make use of the tool. 

    Just thinking about those drive-by invites get me all riled up. For MMO's being social in nature, people go to great lengths to NOT be social, sometimes, and I just don't get it. 

    I hate these too (both for groups and guilds).  Sadly, a huge number of players seem to think it's perfectly acceptable to do.  I don't want to lay the blame at the feet of the LFG tool, because I don't think that's the reason.  Likewise, while I'm sure that the queue "culture" in most recent games just makes it worse, the problem existed before there were such things as queues and dungeon finders.  Even back when all we had in EQ was an /ooc and a /shout channel, people still did it.

    So, while I absolutely agree with you in your pet peeve - I don't think that should prevent us for asking for good LFG and grouping tools - or from using them.

    • 715 posts
    February 14, 2018 10:29 PM PST

    bryanleo9 said:

     

    DPS will be a dime a dozen as they are in all the MMO's I have played and I can see them having long wait times for groups.  Healers and tanks on the other hand will probably not wait long at all.  

    I understand this sentiment and where it comes from but I think that you are over-generalizing a bit.

    There were tons of times in EQ where we had a tank and a healer, and were blocked from doing what we wanted to do because we needed some CC - or, even because we needed a particular type of DPS like a monk or a rogue and one simply wasn't available.

    We should keep in mind that Pantheon wants to insure that those "DPS" classes matter as well.  We'll have to see how well the devs do at this, but if they're able to make each class unique and distinct, so that it brings something special to a group, and THEN insure that there is demand for *every* class spread throughout all the game's content, we may find that it's the "right" DPS that we're all waiting on for our groups.

     

    • 2393 posts
    February 14, 2018 10:40 PM PST

    Sending private messages is the way to go.  There is nothing wrong with advertising in public channels but if you really want to get someone interested, send out personalized messages.  Let folks know what your group composition looks like (and how well their class would compliment it) and where you plan on going.  Bring up any quests you might want to work on or any names that you'll try to secure as a part of your rotation.  If your group is short on casters and you know the area you're headed to drops some decent caster gear, make sure you bring that up.  I think people have a lot more success picking up players when they offer a semi-thorough explanation on what the plan is and set an expectation for success.  Be confident in your approach and you'll notice that some people appreciate the extra effort you put into reaching out to them.  If you set the bar high with how you communicate it's reasonable for players to expect a coordinated group and those can be hard to pass up on.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at February 14, 2018 10:42 PM PST
    • 851 posts
    February 15, 2018 2:43 AM PST

    Tralyan said:

    disposalist said:

    I don't know about particular time estimates (except to say 30 minutes (in EQ) does not sound unusual (though not desirable) at all) but one thing that was VERY annoying and a WASTE of time in EQ was people DIDN'T USE THE LFG TOOL when there was one!

    Excuse caps, please, but I found it infuriating.  It was a perfectly adequate tool and would have saved a LOT of time (uncountable hours added up) of frustration.

    As a note, I was one of those that never used the LFG tool. There were a couple reasons. 

    1. I just forgot about it, and got too used to /ooc advertizement - or I would simply create my own group, and;

    2. My biggest pet peeve in MMO's are drive-by-invites. I absolutely detest when someone runs by and tosses a group /invite without so much as a /tell "howdy doody". Having a giant LFG tag above my character just seemed to make people think doing that was OK. This is a personal gripe, but a huge reason why I didn't make use of the tool. 

    Just thinking about those drive-by invites get me all riled up. For MMO's being social in nature, people go to great lengths to NOT be social, sometimes, and I just don't get it. 

    I agree, but using an LFG tool would actually *avoid* the drive-by invites.  If everyone uses the tool when they want to get a group, you don't need any kind of LFG flag above your head for people to see and don't need to be hanging around the dungeon entrance for people to 'drive-by' you.

    If people want to form a group, they use the tool, so drive-by invites will be extremely inefficient and will happen less.

    I agree that people didn't use the /OOC LFG as a social encounter at all, so may as well have a UI tool that avoids it (and improves the situation).


    This post was edited by disposalist at February 15, 2018 2:44 AM PST