In a two hour session... I would mostly be preparing for a longer session. I might try and sell some crafting services, I might go out and harvest some materials for crafting, I might run in-game errands like picking up consumables for my next adventure or doing maintenance things like fixing damaged gear or sorting my inventory.
If I'm able to get a group together on Discord before my two-hour session starts, I might be able to do a proper guild group. It wouldn't be a standard long-haul group, but I might try and do a specific thing like farm a quest drop or a specific piece of gear.
The biggest thing is with a two-hour play session, I wouldn't try very hard to get a pick-up group together and would do things by myself instead. Probably three times out of five that would mean going out and harvesting crafting supplies and soloing. I will tend towards longer game sessions, myself, but I think that most people obessed enough with this game to be on the forums this far before release will probably have a similar view on play-length.
In 2 hours of gameplay, during early levels, I''d expect to discover a new area or two, complete several quests and get a few bubles of experience. In the latter levels, maybe complete several aspects of a quest and get a solid bubble of experience. And maybe develop some trade skills if it was convenient.
I never expect to get anything done because that would normally lead to disappointment. :D The only thing I expect when launching any game is enjoying it.
In a two hour session it would depend if i had a group ready to go a two hour exp run hopefully in a smaller dungeon or a part of a bigger one. If i do not have a group i will explore, gather or craft. All of which can be done solo and i enjoy all three activities. Exploration is my favorite because you can gather along the way.
Tangible progress, just like any other amount of time. It's up to you to set it based on what rate and values you've already set as other design goals, Visionary Realms.
But if you want an impression, a feeling, or an un-quantifiable response? I expect to gain "some" progress in 2 hours.
And for reference, today, it takes less than 7 hours to reach level 20, in WoW, starting from scratch/zero/new account/ 100% solo. (Re-verified in Dec 2017)
How much I expect to get done really depends on why I logged on in the first place. The folks I plan on playing with like to have organized events thruout the week so I might log on for that. Sometimes I'll log on to get some harvesting or crafting done in wich case I'd do that till I logged back off. Sometimes I just log on to see what's going on and what trouble I can get in. It's always fun getting a /tell from the Guild Leader telling me to behave :P In that case I'll just hang out till I've given him sufficient greif and see if anybody needs help with anything I can get done while I'm on.
Two hours? I would expect nothing from that amount of time. I can probably putz around and harvest some things, explore a little, craft, essentially do solo activities which can be fun. Maybe even run halfway across the world or go stand around and try and sell some stuff.
I suppose if I had a group pre-set up, I could xp for a short while, but I wouldn't expect much advancement for such a small time commitment. Not if this game is going to be like EQ1, which of course, I hope it is.
Celandor said:If I don't have two hours to play, I'm probably not going to log in at all, so I would consider a two-hour window to be the minimum. I don't have any specific expectation of what I want to "get done" in a specific session. I may have a very rough idea that tonight I'd like to finish a particular quest or maybe join friends to check out a particular region. That said, if I log in and find that a guildmate needs help or get a tell from someone about to embark on something that sounds like fun, I'll drop whatever I intended to do in favour of joining another activity.
My concern when I hear questions about two-hour windows is whether dungeons and other content are going to be broken into bite-sized chunks to accommodate more casual gamers. If I'm on to play for an evening, that's probably 4-5 hours. It would not be unusual for me to play from 7 pm to midnight. If travel is going to be significant and meaningful, then on arrival the zone should be large and meaty enough to keep me engaged long enough to make the trip worthwhile.
I know there has been some discussion about creating safe spots in dungeons where players could log out and come back in relative safety to continue another day. There was also some discussion about getting transported when travelling if you were to log out while a group of friends were travelling and stay with your party or somehow arrive at the destinationwhen you return (like falling asleep on an airplane). If it's common/normal for players to only commit two hours to a group or activity, then we're going to also need a mechanism to easily replace party members in large/deep dungeons. Whether this is a class skill such as EQ magician's Call of the Hero or a more generic mechanism for all classes, swapping out the group's members during a run will become an issue. I'm assuming of course that the dungeons have sufficient complexity to not simply be completed in 2 hours.
If everything in the game is "bite-sized", then I will be disappointed and feel that Pantheon hasn't lived up to its old-school gaming legacy.
Two-hour play windows imply that I'm already in a specific region and ready to play, again assuming that travel is non-trivial. If my two-hour window is 20 minutes of travel and 20 minutes or more LFG, my time in a group has been reduced to barely over an hour. This is why I said I probably wouldn't even log in if I had anything less than 2 hours to play.
I want meaningful travel in Pantheon but it comes at a cost. If I've committed to come to a particular region to adventure in, then I shouldn't be able to hop trivially between zones to LFG or jump into town to craft, bank, etc.
It seems to me that you can't have it both ways. Short play sessions are in direct opposition to meaningful travel. They're also in opposition to larger, more complex dungeon design.
Unless VR has some fancy tricks up their sleeves to handle this, I really hope the two-hour play window does not become the norm and that dungeons are not designed for 90-120 minute completion.
My two-hour activity might consist of:
* Travel to Thronefast
* Hit merchants and bank
* Hit marketplace looking for beaver pelts
* Finish up crafting order for Aradune's new beaver hat
* Collect a few regional quest items, talk to relevant Thronefast residents about on-going quests and "perceive" what I can from residents/clues
* Travel to zone I hope to play in next session
* Call it a nightAlternatively it may be more like
* LFG in current zone
* Crawl/adventure for close to a solid two hours
* Call it a nightI would be very disappointed in Pantheon if I dinged twice in a two-hour session.
Given that groups often break apart when a chunk of content is completed, I would not expect to have to find two or three groups each evening because we had "conquered" two or three dungeons. Similarly, I wouldn't want to be in a group where we just do a dungeon two or three times in an evening. This sort of dungeon design is the biggest reason why I dislike instanced content. I don't want Twitter-sized activities in Pantheon.
In summary, I would expect that in any two-hour window that I have fun for two hours, but I shouldn't expect massive progress of any kind in such a short period.
This post is a very solid response and at the same time it's one of my biggest fears for the game. Because I don't see why it has to be one way or the other.
Why can't there be activities that take 30, 60, or 90 minutes?
Why can't some dungeons be designed to be cleared in two hours and others designed for an eight hour clear?
Why can't we have both fast travel and meaningful journey's across the landscape?
The way to make both happen is ensuring the things that take more time offer better rewards for that time. Random encounters when you travel across a zone that drop unique items compared to someone who fast travels and would rather buy the items from players. Shorter dungeons with one reward or a longer dungeon with five rewards. Trophies/achievements/etc for taking longer approaches.
WoW had the problem of the content being too easy and too fast. There was no challenge. EQ had the problem of content being too time consuming and too much of a challenge. DAoC and WAR actually did a good job of balancing quests, camping, and risk/reward but they failed at class balance and endgame.
I hope Pantheon finds the balance between fun and challenge. I'm not 20yrs old with six hours a night I can spend gaming. I won't spend money on a game that demands 50-60% of my free time just so I can feel like I'm making progress. I want a game I can log on for a few hours on a weekday and get some quests knocked out or hit up a dungeon.
Speaking of dungeons. One easy way to cater to both casual and hardcore players is to have a tiered dungeon with a gate system. One way of getting permanent access for the gate is clear the difficult mobs for that level and get a key. Another way is to complete tasks to earn the key over time. That would allow both types of players to move at their own pace as well as allow someone to progress with a pickup group or with a single friend.
Afterall, if they only cater to one type of gamer then they are going to severly limit the number of people who want to spend money on the game.
Celandor has it about right. Two hours is enough to help the guild, craft, easier objective and tasks you can quickly get done so it doesn't have to be done the next time you log in. When I get on to do some heavy grinding, I expect to be be on for much longer than two hours if the group is good and the xp is flowing, more like six to twelve. Time flies when you're having fun.
Ruar said:Afterall, if they only cater to one type of gamer then they are going to severly limit the number of people who want to spend money on the game.
The devs have made it clear that they aren't trying to cater to everyone. That's the magic here man, the goal isn't a broad audience. I think we are all going to be surprised by how much the younger generation participates in and appreciates PRF. PRF will be to them what EQ1 was to us.
First it is important to understand, that a game like pantheon most likely will consume more time than two hours for group content.To find a group and travel to the right place alone will consume on average more than 30- 40 min. But not every gaming season has to be an epic adventure with a group.
However in two hours it should be at least possible to travel from point a to point b even if the destination is on the other side of the world. And it should be possible to achieve something in terms of your character progression. This could be, getting some exp for the next level, farming some materials, craft some items and buy or sell some items.
But i really hope, that you guys don't consider to put something like daily quests in to the game. It should be possible to achieve something useful in two hours, but at the same time it should not be necessary that you have to login every day.
Crazzie said:I would just like to play the game this time. Not the game play me. So 24/7 are out of the question. I am too old for that now, plus some of us have normal lives.
AMEN Brother/ or Sister : )
like many others in this thread I really don't expect much in a 2hour session.
There are a lot of factors that effect this that would make a difference.
Answer emails: Have I been on laitly or do I have 10-20 emails to read/ respond to?
Banking: did I log out last time with full bags? At the bank or at the Dungon?
Pre Planning: is it a planned 2 hours? My toon is at the Dungon and ready to go, my friends are there ready with me and we all plan to log in at 4pm.
I honestly consider that "2 hour progress" goal near unrealistic depending on a persons idea of progress. I personally have very low expectations of it.. clean my bags, stock up on supplies, make my way to the hunting grounds so that I'm ready for the following day.
The next day at the hunting grounds ready to go, fighting non stop for 2 hours...1/8 a level at the most at any level be it level 1 or level 50 (less at level 50).
I share a lot of the same sentiment from the others who feel 2 hours would probably be the minimum they played such as Cel, 187, Shea, and others. So instead of repeating what they have said I'll try to take a different approach.
There are other MMOs where you can accomplish a lot in just 2 hours of game play and I've always felt unsatisified by some/most of these mechanics. Granted you can get a lot done in 2 hours in games such as EQ or VG or etc but games like WoW, Rift, Neverwinter Nights, etc where you can knock out 3 different dungeons with one being a fortified castle, one being an old abondoned cathedral, and the other a frozen demon infested tundra sort of steals from the wonder of the world and definitely steals my lust to return to the game. What captivates me is spending hours in a castle such as Mistmoore in EQ or even somewhere like Vol Tuniel in VG where hours might not even get you past the front door. You could spend days to weeks in some of these zones but with possibly only two hours I could travel through areas I have not yet been, encountered a new castle or wooded fortress or cavern-like dungeon to spend my next week in, grouped up with friends and strangers alike, and enjoy a good time with friends while traversing dangerous places new and old alike.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, for most part, that I'd prefer not to be able to cram 5 different things/tasks into a 2 hour time frame. I'd prefer to envelop myself with a single task or two that would require my focus but would still be rewarding for that time. I've never been big on anything other than adventuring these worlds so things like crafting, diplomacy, working the market, etc have always been minor on my list so it's hard for me to speak on these. If I am online I can almost always be found in a group and all that entails no matter how much time I have.
Without structure- like starting as new with no friends and no guild yet, for lack of number of like minded consistent friends established, say, over 6 months to form such guild:
Lowbie: log in and *squee!*, get caught up in general chat because everyone speaks outloud and the hustle and bustle of the people can be heard. check guild master or class area for class specific quests if any. Head out to yard to see how hard they are and maybe ask random folks for help- start first huge list of friends. After 2 hours look forward to doing it again tomorrow! or whenever. no commitments, no schedules. Oops, check food and drink, remember dying of thirst by city gates..
Mid: I have business. I have bags full. I have armor and weapon concerns/desires and I know what is hard. I know what I can do alone in the zone and what monsters would need a group. I have friends who are on fairly regularly but not at the same time always and I review friends list and spend maybe 15min sending tells while heading out to spot. I am in a spot where I can manage solo to a degree, but if no friends need me I can call out for PuG's- create my own group. No commitments, no schedules
Mid: I know my friends are not on at this time, so I make bag space by crafting, getting involved in out-loud chat, listening to strats or armor reccomendations people are making and quitely laughing at snarky/immature jokes. I may have some perception things I want to follow up on. I camp after about 2.25 hours and am pleased with my one skill up in crafting. I dream about following up with perception quest. No commitments, no schedules
Mid: I am going to that place that I heard about through perception. I will take maybe a half hour looking for friends or asking if there are any heading that way and can we group. Spend same half hour provisioning for a long stay "there" as there may be no merchants or city- like preparing for camping out. The intent is to get there. Spend 1.5 hours with new friends or established friends getting there. no ommitments, no schedules
Mid: Once "there" I am there for a while, Friends know that I am "there" and some may come by. I explore. I log in and *squee*! because that area needs to be explored and there are other new people there- new friends added to list and list grows again. PuG's galore- I try to see myself through their eyes if I am a good player- maybe apologize too profusely at times maybe spend 1.75-2.0 hours. No commitments, no schedules
Horizon: I know whats in my bags, I know how to get there and back- My core friends are on at the same time, maybe within 5 min of me logging on. Within 10min we are grouped and doing stuff. We tell each other when we cannot make on it the day before. casual commitments, expectations, getting what I want done and helping them get what they want done.
Horizon guild: "off-days". I know what the guild needs I know what is in guildies bags and they know whats in mine- we trade freely. I read news for suggested goals/flagging. Everyone can be trusted in guild as to similar level of playability and seriousness/ "who-cares-if-we-wipe" fun 2.5 hours but I really need to camp. Always someone free or maybe with an open spot. partial commitments, partial schedules. But I am not one of those that will leave a PuG because "guild needs me" on off-days. I listen to chatter or share other good people we know in other guilds to fill in PuG's with other non member guild members.
Horizon guild: "on-days" I show up on the days the guild is doing something as a whole and in 5 minutes we are doing something for 2 maybe 3 hours. I log in and *run*. I know the way there and I get there, I dont need speed buffs, I dont wait around for speed buffs, I am on my way- sort all that out when there. Commitment. Scheduling. Great things accomplished/Great wipes accomplished. Retrospect jokes like the time the boss followed all the way back to bind point and wiped the group again! haha!
RL: Saturdays I will probably put in blocks of time- like 6-10 hours, sundays probably the same and act like a lowbie or mid depending where I am- seek PuGs.
How long do I take? Depends on the situation, or what I planned to do last session. New character...new starter area, I'll be exploring and testing my abilities against whatever critters are out there. Running around getting a good idea of the starter area/zone...yakking at people over General chat, making jokes and puns. The usual. :) Maybe check out vendors see what they are selling..so I can save some coins up. :) I'm not going to rush..lots of time. No need to impress anyone. :)
Cana
I hear ya mate, not going to rush either. Been there done that rat race back in the day (again more recently over the past few years on EQ's prog servers). This go round, going to enjoy each gaming session for whatever it brings be it 1 hr, 2 hrs or 10 hrs :). Exploring, chatting with folks and taking lots of screen shots of this gorgeous world. oh yes.. lots of screen shots <3
Time frame doesn't matter to me. Sometimes I like to game for 8 hours straight and cover some ground, sometimes 2 to 4 hours just to tweak my spec and look stuff up on a game's wiki or focus on one aspect of the game (diplomacy, crafting, harvesting, stocking up, traveling from A to B, etc).
I generally have three modes of play…
1) Adventuring / Grouping. This is where I log in to play killing stuff in a zone, hanging out with groups or the guild.
2) Administrative Tasks. I consider this to be the backend kind of stuff needed in the game. It includes traveling to a city to sell loot and buy items needed to support my character while out adventuring (food, drink, and other consumables). It's also where I handle hitting my class guild master to train new skills. If I plan on playing at a particular zone, I'll use this time to travel to that zone so that I am ready the next time I log in to Adventure.
3) Trade skill / harvesting. As the name implies, this covers activities needed to advance my character in other ways. Finding materials or working on the actual crafting.
Two hours will suffice in terms of having enough time to group provided I am in the zone already or can get to the location needed quick enough. I always let groups know that I have about 2 hours available so I don't leave them hanging without advance knowledge. This is particularly important when playing a critical role such as an enchanter. Generally speaking, 2 hours is enough time to play in a lower level group but in a higher level group it can be tight, mainly because higher level zones tend to be very difficult to get to the camp location. The zones in Pantheon look to be pretty huge and definitely non-linear so it will be interesting to see how this affects the ability to do this short-term grouping (2 hours).
I also don't expect to level up in two hours of play or come close to moving through a level. I want leveling to just happen and not be the primary measure of my enjoyment in the game. Yes, I do want to level but I also want to have fun experiencing the content and trying different things as I do. It can be a tough balance.