Forums » The Paladin

Which title did Paladin archetype the best?

    • 36 posts
    September 26, 2018 2:09 PM PDT

    The Vanguard Paladin for my all time favourite.  So much utility and control during raid encounters.

    • 7 posts
    October 7, 2018 7:10 PM PDT

    I know this isn't a computer game, but I really enjoy the D&D 5e Paladin because you can tweak it with the different archetypes. I really enjoy the Paladin of the Ancients. 

    • 95 posts
    December 1, 2018 7:17 AM PST

    Vanguards Paladin was a lot of fun and back when I played it during launch it was extremely broken haha so you could solo pretty much any end game boss. I also like the ability to go full on super seiyan if you stacked certain special resource buffs.

     

    But to me what makes a Paladin is how well they can help heal as they are tanking so my favorite Paladin is in EQ2. Some games yeah the Paladin can tank but so can all the other tanks but EQ and EQ2 you could really make your presence known through group heals giving that actual feeling of oh that Paladin just saved the day.

    • 23 posts
    December 30, 2018 5:41 PM PST

    Deadshade said:

    For me a Paladin has never been defined by his tanking abilities , by some stat numbers or by his ability to solo . What makes the difference between a random fighter and a Paladin in a fantasy world is the personality . 

    A Paladin symbolises Honesty, Truth, Courage, Faith and Dedication . He defends the Good against Evil , the weak against the strong and doesn't hesitate to sacrify his life for his brothers . From this point of view the Diablo's Paladin was quite near to the Paladin's Archetype but the almost perfect Archetype lore and personality design was EQ . Mithaniel Marr was exactly everything a Paladin's God should be and when one entered a Paladin's Guild , there could be no mistake that one was in some random fighter Guild . I liked to play the EQ Paladin exactly for that reason .

    I always found it annoying when people choose an Archetype Paladin but played it like if it was a some common thief and murderer .  Some Paladins could have exceptionally become rotten apples , nobody is perfect , but when they are rotten all over the place then it destroys the Archetype definition . It is not necessary to RP but I find it more satisfying when the PCs show a minimum of consistence with the class/race combination they have chosen .

     



    You're basically asking decency from human beings. Never gonna happen :P 

    • 18 posts
    January 3, 2019 4:32 AM PST

    Guess the games that comes closest are DnD 5e and WoW since basically in DnD you got different archetypes but it kinda leads into what I enjoyed in WoW (before they revamped lore) is the fact that as long as the person is convinced they are serving justice and doing what is right, not to mention is faithful to their god, they will keep their powers. It made a lot more sense to me than doing a no-no and then losing all your powers, I mean what if your god is a complete a-hole or your put in the old "one train two tracks situation? In WC3 Arthas commited genocide but (again before the retcon) there seemed to be no other option to stop a gigantic undead invasion as there was no time to find another solution and they couldn't quarantine one of the biggest cities in the kingdom.

    I know this game seems to have some sort of alignment system, but it's something I've never been a huge fan of. The whole X is pure evil for the sake of it and Y is pure good but won't break the law no matter what, I makes me think that wouldn't a Warhammer like "Paladin" make more sense then? Someone who delivers justice and holy vengeance to people/creatures/monsters they believe cannot be saved? In a world so black and white. Dosen't mean I don't enjoy me some Warhammer though, well more fantasy not the AoS stuff, but that's a whole other can of worms.

    • 7 posts
    January 12, 2019 5:44 AM PST

    ArtCore said:

    Deadshade said:

    For me a Paladin has never been defined by his tanking abilities , by some stat numbers or by his ability to solo . What makes the difference between a random fighter and a Paladin in a fantasy world is the personality . 

    A Paladin symbolises Honesty, Truth, Courage, Faith and Dedication . He defends the Good against Evil , the weak against the strong and doesn't hesitate to sacrify his life for his brothers . From this point of view the Diablo's Paladin was quite near to the Paladin's Archetype but the almost perfect Archetype lore and personality design was EQ . Mithaniel Marr was exactly everything a Paladin's God should be and when one entered a Paladin's Guild , there could be no mistake that one was in some random fighter Guild . I liked to play the EQ Paladin exactly for that reason .

    I always found it annoying when people choose an Archetype Paladin but played it like if it was a some common thief and murderer .  Some Paladins could have exceptionally become rotten apples , nobody is perfect , but when they are rotten all over the place then it destroys the Archetype definition . It is not necessary to RP but I find it more satisfying when the PCs show a minimum of consistence with the class/race combination they have chosen .

     



    You're basically asking decency from human beings. Never gonna happen :P 

     

     

    I RP even when I think Im not when I play a Pally.  The character and the idea of what they stand for makes me decent even when im not paying attention.  Stepping into the shoes of a specific type of character can morph you into actually being like that character while you play... even if your not a decent person.   My friend and colleague here at USC is doing his dissertation on gaming and its potential as therapy.  The stuff that he has discovered would blow you away.

    • 1 posts
    February 4, 2019 5:52 PM PST

    Silverlight said:

    ArtCore said:

    Deadshade said:

    For me a Paladin has never been defined by his tanking abilities , by some stat numbers or by his ability to solo . What makes the difference between a random fighter and a Paladin in a fantasy world is the personality . 

    A Paladin symbolises Honesty, Truth, Courage, Faith and Dedication . He defends the Good against Evil , the weak against the strong and doesn't hesitate to sacrify his life for his brothers . From this point of view the Diablo's Paladin was quite near to the Paladin's Archetype but the almost perfect Archetype lore and personality design was EQ . Mithaniel Marr was exactly everything a Paladin's God should be and when one entered a Paladin's Guild , there could be no mistake that one was in some random fighter Guild . I liked to play the EQ Paladin exactly for that reason .

    I always found it annoying when people choose an Archetype Paladin but played it like if it was a some common thief and murderer .  Some Paladins could have exceptionally become rotten apples , nobody is perfect , but when they are rotten all over the place then it destroys the Archetype definition . It is not necessary to RP but I find it more satisfying when the PCs show a minimum of consistence with the class/race combination they have chosen .

     



    You're basically asking decency from human beings. Never gonna happen :P 

     

     

    I RP even when I think Im not when I play a Pally.  The character and the idea of what they stand for makes me decent even when im not paying attention.  Stepping into the shoes of a specific type of character can morph you into actually being like that character while you play... even if your not a decent person.   My friend and colleague here at USC is doing his dissertation on gaming and its potential as therapy.  The stuff that he has discovered would blow you away.

     

    I agree with this. For me my first iteration of the Paladin was 2.5/3e Dungeons & Dragons PnP tabletop RGP. Out of all the games released in the years, I have enjoyed varied concepts of the Paladin, but the one I find closest to the tabletop game was the EQ Paladin. I felt like I WANTED to explemplify what it was to be Lawful Good. I enjoyed buffing passing players, giving my life to Lay Hands on another group member even though I was about to die.

    Almost every Paladin I played in other games could have just been another hero/champion in the game (replace paladin with a shaman, or a rogue, or a death knight, or a hunter, or a warlock . . you get what I am saying). FFXI's paladin was a close 2nd, but I felt I needed to subclass a fighter to make him worthwhile, and although the paladin quest line to get their armor was great, it still felt hollow, because I could just become a Dark Knight, a Dragoon, a Mage (any mage) or any other of the 12(?) jobs almost at a whim. There was no defined permanent road that you chose to walk down (the righteous path).

    I do hope they really flesh out the world where alignment, not just faction matters. I know they are the vengeful crusaders here, but I don't want it to feel like I can play any other class and I get the same feel out of them.

    I guess thats where my main point comes into light. In EQ, a Paladin was nothing like a Shadow Knight, nothing like a Warrior, or a Rogue, a Wizard, a Shaman, or a Ranger or Bard or Enchanter. It felt distinct even compared to other tanks. The modern MMO's made all tanks feel they are cut from the same cloth. You could substitute a Paladin with any other tank and accomplish the exact same thing, you could become just as devastating as a rogue or mage, then heal as good as a priest. I understand it's for playability, but classic EQ had it right with their design in all classes with their unique play style and interdependence. Which is why I am backing this game, because I feel that's what VR is trying to recreate.


    This post was edited by Merek at February 4, 2019 5:54 PM PST
    • 1284 posts
    February 5, 2019 2:08 PM PST

    Merek said:

    Silverlight said:

    ArtCore said:

    Deadshade said:

    For me a Paladin has never been defined by his tanking abilities , by some stat numbers or by his ability to solo . What makes the difference between a random fighter and a Paladin in a fantasy world is the personality . 

    A Paladin symbolises Honesty, Truth, Courage, Faith and Dedication . He defends the Good against Evil , the weak against the strong and doesn't hesitate to sacrify his life for his brothers . From this point of view the Diablo's Paladin was quite near to the Paladin's Archetype but the almost perfect Archetype lore and personality design was EQ . Mithaniel Marr was exactly everything a Paladin's God should be and when one entered a Paladin's Guild , there could be no mistake that one was in some random fighter Guild . I liked to play the EQ Paladin exactly for that reason .

    I always found it annoying when people choose an Archetype Paladin but played it like if it was a some common thief and murderer .  Some Paladins could have exceptionally become rotten apples , nobody is perfect , but when they are rotten all over the place then it destroys the Archetype definition . It is not necessary to RP but I find it more satisfying when the PCs show a minimum of consistence with the class/race combination they have chosen .

     



    You're basically asking decency from human beings. Never gonna happen :P 

     

     

    I RP even when I think Im not when I play a Pally.  The character and the idea of what they stand for makes me decent even when im not paying attention.  Stepping into the shoes of a specific type of character can morph you into actually being like that character while you play... even if your not a decent person.   My friend and colleague here at USC is doing his dissertation on gaming and its potential as therapy.  The stuff that he has discovered would blow you away.

     

    I agree with this. For me my first iteration of the Paladin was 2.5/3e Dungeons & Dragons PnP tabletop RGP. Out of all the games released in the years, I have enjoyed varied concepts of the Paladin, but the one I find closest to the tabletop game was the EQ Paladin. I felt like I WANTED to explemplify what it was to be Lawful Good. I enjoyed buffing passing players, giving my life to Lay Hands on another group member even though I was about to die.

    Almost every Paladin I played in other games could have just been another hero/champion in the game (replace paladin with a shaman, or a rogue, or a death knight, or a hunter, or a warlock . . you get what I am saying). FFXI's paladin was a close 2nd, but I felt I needed to subclass a fighter to make him worthwhile, and although the paladin quest line to get their armor was great, it still felt hollow, because I could just become a Dark Knight, a Dragoon, a Mage (any mage) or any other of the 12(?) jobs almost at a whim. There was no defined permanent road that you chose to walk down (the righteous path).

    I do hope they really flesh out the world where alignment, not just faction matters. I know they are the vengeful crusaders here, but I don't want it to feel like I can play any other class and I get the same feel out of them.

    I guess thats where my main point comes into light. In EQ, a Paladin was nothing like a Shadow Knight, nothing like a Warrior, or a Rogue, a Wizard, a Shaman, or a Ranger or Bard or Enchanter. It felt distinct even compared to other tanks. The modern MMO's made all tanks feel they are cut from the same cloth. You could substitute a Paladin with any other tank and accomplish the exact same thing, you could become just as devastating as a rogue or mage, then heal as good as a priest. I understand it's for playability, but classic EQ had it right with their design in all classes with their unique play style and interdependence. Which is why I am backing this game, because I feel that's what VR is trying to recreate.

     

    A very interesting PoV here, as many saw the paladin as the "low damage boring class with low heals". I never thought it was, and really never cared about it anyway. I allways thought the paladin was fitting in a very supportive archetype, where damage was secondary but guardian his allies was a priority. In this sense, I always loved how they had low level clerics spells because it was just "the same magic" with more melee capabilities.

     

    In turned out to be quite gray for players, as they discarded healing abilities due to their weaknesses and praised the offense was too bad. I allways wondered why group centric roles (ie : tanks and heals) were so worried about offensive capabilities back then.

     

    I really liked eq's paladin anyway, I just feel like every hybrids it lacked a few "in fight action" and mana conservation to fulfill their hybrid roles, but I felt they were true to their roots with an interesting toolkit, and lower downtimes than a lot of classes due to their HP conservation (healings or taps ! ).