Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

How much will we be able to discuss pre-alpha here?

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    • 27 posts
    December 8, 2017 4:04 PM PST

    Can we expect to hear anything about what is going on in pre-alpha? Those of us who are coming in later are still very much interested in what is going on, what is being tested, what people think, etc. Will the NDA allow for any discussion at all about these things here?

    • 67 posts
    December 8, 2017 4:09 PM PST

    Im going to be very careful with what I am going to say but you will hear nothing. 

    • 67 posts
    December 8, 2017 4:11 PM PST

    grumble said:

    Can we expect to hear anything about what is going on in pre-alpha? Those of us who are coming in later are still very much interested in what is going on, what is being tested, what people think, etc. Will the NDA allow for any discussion at all about these things here?

    to be more clear you won't even know when PA starts. The NDA is strict and no one is going to risk being banned.

    • 1281 posts
    December 8, 2017 4:46 PM PST

    I am going to say at, or near, zero.

    • 2752 posts
    December 8, 2017 4:52 PM PST

    Those in pre alpha aren't even allowed to say they are in it. We won't get anything here.

    • 67 posts
    December 8, 2017 4:59 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    Those in pre alpha aren't even allowed to say they are in it. We won't get anything here.

    Its impossible for people to hide who is in pre alpha isn't it. Doesn't it say what teir they bought into when you click on there profile?

    • 1281 posts
    December 8, 2017 5:05 PM PST

    Arterius said:

    Iksar said:

    Those in pre alpha aren't even allowed to say they are in it. We won't get anything here.

    Its impossible for people to hide who is in pre alpha isn't it. Doesn't it say what teir they bought into when you click on there profile?

    Yep....  But his point wasn't that we won't know who's in pre-alpha.  His poing ws that they cannot SAY that they are in pre-alpha.  Look up the definition of 'Non-Disclosure Agreement'.


    This post was edited by Kalok at December 8, 2017 5:05 PM PST
    • 1095 posts
    December 8, 2017 5:12 PM PST

    IIRC they stated in a stream they will tell everyone when it starts. Its only more marketing for them and to keep it a secret that its started really serves no purpose. VR would want to show the game is moving forward.

    Unless they have changed their minds and its already started I guess the email that may have went out was just instructions on how to get the client installed and the testing times that are coming up so people can plan.

    But I am sure Kilsin is lurking so maybe he can verify if they will share that testing has begun or not.


    This post was edited by Aich at December 8, 2017 5:34 PM PST
    • 98 posts
    December 8, 2017 6:04 PM PST

    Fight Club rules.

    • 82 posts
    December 8, 2017 6:14 PM PST

    Im wanting to know if there is anybody that is able to stream in pre alpha ?? was this mentioned anywhere?

    • 1095 posts
    December 8, 2017 6:16 PM PST

    Ultra said:

    Im wanting to know if there is anybody that is able to stream in pre alpha ?? was this mentioned anywhere?

    Thats a no for sure.

    • 1281 posts
    December 8, 2017 6:18 PM PST

    Ultra said:

    Im wanting to know if there is anybody that is able to stream in pre alpha ?? was this mentioned anywhere?

    The only people doing that will be VR.  One of them mentioned that they would be streaming more once pre-alpha kicked off.

    • 1860 posts
    December 8, 2017 6:33 PM PST

    Arterius said:

    grumble said:

    Can we expect to hear anything about what is going on in pre-alpha? Those of us who are coming in later are still very much interested in what is going on, what is being tested, what people think, etc. Will the NDA allow for any discussion at all about these things here?

    to be more clear you won't even know when PA starts. The NDA is strict and no one is going to risk being banned.

    But we already know when prealpha starts...


    This post was edited by philo at December 8, 2017 6:34 PM PST
    • 60 posts
    December 8, 2017 6:35 PM PST

    They've done a good job of showing off the game and progress on it thus far IMO.  I imagine they'll continue to do so during PA as content is made.

    • 126 posts
    December 8, 2017 9:36 PM PST

    You will be not able to discuss PA stuff here (if you're in it). You can ask all you want but the NDA would be very specific about that kind of stuff. If VR wants to release streams or clips then that is up to them. :)

    • 1714 posts
    December 8, 2017 10:11 PM PST

    There are people who know exactly when and what format the pre alpha will be who aren't in it and haven't signed an NDA. This is the internet. I don't understand why they are hiding this when it's already leaked. 

    • 105 posts
    December 9, 2017 5:38 AM PST

    I heard it was starting on the 13th... We won't hear anything on these forums... Out on the world wide web though.. who knows! 

    • 1281 posts
    December 9, 2017 6:29 AM PST

    Krixus said:

    There are people who know exactly when and what format the pre alpha will be who aren't in it and haven't signed an NDA. This is the internet. I don't understand why they are hiding this when it's already leaked. 

    Except that there's not.  Everyone that has already been in the game has signed an NDA.  And if they have been talking, without authorization, they CAN be sued.

    • 319 posts
    December 9, 2017 9:43 AM PST

    I am not elegible for PA. That is fine for me. I would love to see some small notices in these forums regarding that the PA has started and when they make certain goals. People are still backers who have bought pledge packages and it seems like they are still due some notice of progress. Not complete access to the vip forums but a little bit of info. Other than that it is completely up to VR and thier NDA.  I will be happy any way they play it. Just a little happier to see some notices her and there.

    VR has been doing such an awesome job so far with the twitches and notices that  I am sure they have a handle on this phase as well. Hopefully I will see you all in beta.

    • 1281 posts
    December 9, 2017 9:51 AM PST

    I suspect that they will announce the phases....  Pre-alpha, alpha, beta, and what-not.  They have said that they also plan on releasing streams more frequently as pre-alpha progresses, so it would be silly to keep that under wraps.

    Individual people who are in pre-alpha, alpha, and beta will not be able to comment, post screen shots, or videos publicly or face getting banned and/or sued under the terms of the NDA, if it's standard NDA language.


    This post was edited by Kalok at December 9, 2017 9:52 AM PST
    • 1921 posts
    December 9, 2017 10:02 AM PST

    Kalok said: ... they CAN be sued.

    Just one point on this.  To the best of my knowledge, no NDA of this type has ever been used in a civil court in the USA to get damages (money) out of a volunteer tester.  In fact, I don't think any game company has ever sued an unpaid pre-launch tester since 1995.  Nor could I see how they could ever do it, but that's just my opinion.  Nor would this be the thing you would want your company remembered for or known for, uniquely.

    So, while it is an attempt to keep things secret and generally does that because people act in good faith, without being tested in court, it has no actual legal force, strictly speaking. 
    Having said that, the normal enforcement of an NDA in this context is to remove the participant from testing access and potentially future access.   This HAS been done many times, but has nothing to do with being sued.

    However, removing access can be done at any time, without an NDA, for any reason, via a TOS or EULA.  As with any entertainment company involving online access, Visionary Realms has sole discretion regarding who uses or doesn't use their products, up to and including any reason or no reason, for anyone at any time.

    • 1281 posts
    December 9, 2017 10:13 AM PST

    vjek said:

    Kalok said: ... they CAN be sued.

    Just one point on this.  To the best of my knowledge, no NDA of this type has ever been used in a civil court in the USA to get damages (money) out of a volunteer tester.  In fact, I don't think any game company has ever sued an unpaid pre-launch tester since 1995.  Nor could I see how they could ever do it, but that's just my opinion.  Nor would this be the thing you would want your company remembered for or known for, uniquely.

    So, while it is an attempt to keep things secret and generally does that because people act in good faith, without being tested in court, it has no actual legal force, strictly speaking. 
    Having said that, the normal enforcement of an NDA in this context is to remove the participant from testing access and potentially future access.   This HAS been done many times, but has nothing to do with being sued.

    However, removing access can be done at any time, without an NDA, for any reason, via a TOS or EULA.  As with any entertainment company involving online access, Visionary Realms has sole discretion regarding who uses or doesn't use their products, up to and including any reason or no reason, for anyone at any time.

    That's where you're wrong.  NDAs have all of the force in the world in court people HAVE been sued for violating them, and lost.  An NDA is a contract and 100% enforcable in a court of law.  I have seen it happen first-hand, though luckily I was not the defendant.

    That being said, they PROBABLY wouldn't sue you, because the juice wouldn't be worth the squeeze.

    That being said, I would HIGHLY recommend that you not violate your NDA if you are a part of alpha or beta access.


    This post was edited by Kalok at December 9, 2017 10:13 AM PST
    • 763 posts
    December 9, 2017 10:20 AM PST

    As a few above have said:

    1. Those who will be entering into Pre-Alpha will undoubtably be unable to comment...
        ... on anything - no streams, no gameplay info, nada!

    2. There will, no doubt, be VR sponsored streams during the Pre-Alpha...
        ... so it is inevitable that VR will announce Pre-Alpha has started at some point!

    3. The NDA is likely, therefore, to best ensure VR can manage the narrative.
        (I.e. only VR can decide what/when to publish information),
        such that they can:

    a) best manage expectations, by determining how much and how often to show...
    b) manage which parts of the game they want to showcase to the public ...
        (i.e. show the pieces that best represent the level of polish at that point),
    c) keep the nitty-gritty of specific mechanics under wraps until they have tested each one ...

    PS Nothing I have said is news, merely supposition taken from common sense and what has been revealed to date.

    • 1281 posts
    December 9, 2017 10:30 AM PST

    Evoras said:

    As a few above have said:

    1. Those who will be entering into Pre-Alpha will undoubtably be unable to comment...
        ... on anything - no streams, no gameplay info, nada!

    2. There will, no doubt, be VR sponsored streams during the Pre-Alpha...
        ... so it is inevitable that VR will announce Pre-Alpha has started at some point!

    3. The NDA is likely, therefore, to best ensure VR can manage the narrative.
        (I.e. only VR can decide what/when to publish information),
        such that they can:

    a) best manage expectations, by determining how much and how often to show...
    b) manage which parts of the game they want to showcase to the public ...
        (i.e. show the pieces that best represent the level of polish at that point),
    c) keep the nitty-gritty of specific mechanics under wraps until they have tested each one ...

    PS Nothing I have said is news, merely supposition taken from common sense and what has been revealed to date.

    THey have already stated that there would be an NDA, so that part is a "known item".

    • 1921 posts
    December 9, 2017 10:30 AM PST

    Kalok said: ... That's where you're wrong.  NDAs have all of the force in the world in court people HAVE been sued for violating them, and lost.  An NDA is a contract and 100% enforcable in a court of law.  I have seen it happen first-hand, though luckily I was not the defendant. ...

    You'll want to re-read the bit about this type of NDA.  Not all NDA's are the same. You can't specify criminal damages in tort law.  You can't say "if you break this NDA, you'll go to jail".
    It's tried in civil court, and must specify damages before hand.  So, back up a sec, and consider the context here.

    What possible damages could you specify to an unpaid testing volunteer?