Hi so im a big PvE and PvP player. I enjoy both aspects that both playstyles bring. I know Pantheon is focused on PvE content, and will have PvP servers for the group of people that enjoy PvP.
I like the rule sets for PvP servers, Good races vs evil races, All vs all and so on. That Brad mention in the TwitchCon video. This will Def. mix things up on these servers.
My personal concern is that, some days i want to pvp other days i want to pve. Why do i have to make the choice too have it or not?
Could we have a PvP zone's on a PvE server? a zone where high lvl mobs could roam, strategic points that can be controlled or materials that is highly sought out for.
A zone where i could go to hunt down my arc enemies the pesky Orcs and and scaly Skars.
I want the "positive" sides of pvp, on a pve server. :)
I would hate to be ganked over and over by some lame invisible perma stunning rogue, while questing. That bring me straight back to PTSD of playing WoW.
What’s your thoughts on this, are you in Limbo like i?
Would you create a char on PvE or PvP server and what’s the reason?
Would you, like i prefer a PvE server with PvP options? If such a server would be available?
Best Regards, From a Danish Neard :)
I would love to see optional PVP elements available on PVE servers. Organized war games, battle grounds, tournaments, arenas, etc. I would also like the option to toggle open world PVP. Anybody who doesen't want to PVP could permanently toggle their character to PVE. I think it's a good idea to allow communities to foster some healthy competition now and then.
One of my favorite memories of WoW was Tol Barad. It was a PVP event that went on every couple hours or so and it was a ton of fun. The zone was still available outside of the event and it was common to see people there working on daily quests or grinding reputation. While in that zone, most players would toggle their PVP option on and have some open world fun. For those who didn't want to deal with it, they didn't have to. I am a huge fan of PVP themed gameplay and hope we get a zone or event where players can participate in this sort of thing, even while on a PVE server.
For me its like this
WH Online was the best pvp game for me in fantasy setting , but i rearly mix pve and pvp in the same game here is why. Not any game i know of has pulled of the trick to balance pvp AND pve so developers need to stick to 1 main road and let the other one be as good as i can with the mechanics in place, i dont do arena pvp part from BF kind. But i understand some people whant/need to test themself against ohter players for lack of challange and hope this will rearly occure in Pantheon for they hopefully have a decent AI .
Honestly, the two do not mix very well unless the game is specifically designed with them both in mind. Pantheon is a PvE game first and foremost and the majority of our community are PvE focused, they have made it very clear that they do not want PvP on the PvE servers, we listened to that and still want to create a place for the PvP crowd, so we are basically just creating PvE servers and turning PvP on for those who like PvP (plus different rulesets depending on the majority vote), there will not be any shared servers though, if you want to PvE you can do everything on a PvP server that you can on a PvE server just with the continually added risk of other players attacking you.
If that is too much for you to handle then I would suggest creating a character on the PvE server too so you can play whichever one suits your mood but you will not be able to do both on a PvE server. The only way we can keep class and content changes separate is to keep them on separate servers, mixing them both will ultimately create a scene where if a PvP ability is too strong against other players, if we nerf it, the PvE crowd get nerfed too against monsters and the environment and visa versa, if a PvE ability is too strong against a named mob and we nerf it, the PvP crowd get nerfed against each other, which no one wants to relive things like that from previous games, it isn't fair on either side, so we are intentionally keeping them very separate.
So either choose PvP or PvE or create a character on each server but you will never be able to PvP on a pure PvE server.
hey Bambam I have the perfect solution for you. Join a pvp server andwhen you want to pve just ask your fellow pvp players to just lease leave me alone for today. You think that would work?
Probably not. Thus the reason to separate the servers. No pve player wants to have to avoid an entire zone just to be safe from gankers.
Killin thanks a lot for your response! I respect your decisions and ofc I will adapt just fine :) But I still see the option to merge these two worlds. As I see it you balance pve, then you adjust skills for pvp. As an example a long duration mess could last 20 s on a mob, but in pvp max duration is 5 s. Maybe people have to be ok with everything is not in total balance and complete harmony in pvp. Maybe pvp is only for fun, with no direct ingame honor system and pvp gear to break it. Only reason to pvp is for territories, for guild battels, and for fun. I'll still put my vote on the mixed pve/pvp server as I main one char and rarely cares for arts, specially alts on other serves, maybe that's just me :) Again thanks <3
Isaya the pvp on / pvp off would fix?
Based on Brad's comment on the twitchcon stream, I suspect it will be something like original EQ which caters to both groups of people. I like the different approach for balancing purposes. However, doesn't that mean that any adjustments on the PVP server will also affect that PVP servers balance? I am going to assume that is just the way it will be because of two conflicting baselines
BamBam said:Killin thanks a lot for your response! I respect your decisions and ofc I will adapt just fine :) But I still see the option to merge these two worlds. As I see it you balance pve, then you adjust skills for pvp. As an example a long duration mess could last 20 s on a mob, but in pvp max duration is 5 s. Maybe people have to be ok with everything is not in total balance and complete harmony in pvp. Maybe pvp is only for fun, with no direct ingame honor system and pvp gear to break it. Only reason to pvp is for territories, for guild battels, and for fun. I'll still put my vote on the mixed pve/pvp server as I main one char and rarely cares for arts, specially alts on other serves, maybe that's just me :) Again thanks <3
Isaya the pvp on / pvp off would fix?
You're welcome my friend, you're welcome to give feedback during testing too, let the devs know what you think of the PvP and how you think it could be better, same goes for the PvE players on PvE content. :)
Kilsin said:Honestly, the two do not mix very well unless the game is specifically designed with them both in mind. Pantheon is a PvE game first and foremost and the majority of our community are PvE focused, they have made it very clear that they do not want PvP on the PvE servers, we listened to that and still want to create a place for the PvP crowd, so we are basically just creating PvE servers and turning PvP on for those who like PvP (plus different rulesets depending on the majority vote), there will not be any shared servers though, if you want to PvE you can do everything on a PvP server that you can on a PvE server just with the continually added risk of other players attacking you.
If that is too much for you to handle then I would suggest creating a character on the PvE server too so you can play whichever one suits your mood but you will not be able to do both on a PvE server. The only way we can keep class and content changes separate is to keep them on separate servers, mixing them both will ultimately create a scene where if a PvP ability is too strong against other players, if we nerf it, the PvE crowd get nerfed too against monsters and the environment and visa versa, if a PvE ability is too strong against a named mob and we nerf it, the PvP crowd get nerfed against each other, which no one wants to relive things like that from previous games, it isn't fair on either side, so we are intentionally keeping them very separate.
So either choose PvP or PvE or create a character on each server but you will never be able to PvP on a pure PvE server.
I kind of like what they had on the PvE servers in EQ.... The whole Arena thing. Where you could get together and beat the snot out of each other "on special occasions". Maybe something like that would satisfy the PvE players that wanted to do a little PvP too.
I have not PvPed in a long time. Attained Knight Captain in WoW, then gradually mods appeared for PvP. The "Lazy" mod that enabled just to hit 1 button that made "decisions" for you regarding your rotation, mods that targetted healers, mods that track enemy CDs. These add-ons are default PvP now, which kills the idea of PvP for me. It was not me strategising, it was an addon that let me know what the CD situation was so I could decide to enter burn mode or not.
My next point ties into balancing. The Death Knight arrived and single handly destroyed PvP for over a year before Blizz even attempted to remotely balance them. I often faced teams made up of all DK's which was an instant loss. I am all for separate servers for PVE/PVP it makes sense, balancing would be much easier. DK's was Blizzard's fault though, OP in both PvE and PvP. Even now Blizzard cannot balance a chequebook, let alone classes.
I had some fun in EQ with an arena. My guild leader decided to hold a guild meeting in one. The whisper went around that when the meeting was finished we would all jump on Mac (the guild leader). I was stoked when my harm touch came off CD as the meeting finished. Then Mac was finished. Happy times!!
I hope they keep PvE and PvP servers separate in the long run it will only create silly drama othewise , hopefully there will be a maximum level spread for pvp just like in EQ Rallos Zek server where it was free for all and maximum of 4 levels differance , the Tallon/Vallon Zek system with teams and 8 levels can be nice to,n alltho i hope they will remedy the X-teaming ( maybe making healing and buffing impossible for other teams than your self) and the teams all teams should have access to all classes to imo.
/Nibs
Kalok said:
I kind of like what they had on the PvE servers in EQ.... The whole Arena thing. Where you could get together and beat the snot out of each other "on special occasions". Maybe something like that would satisfy the PvE players that wanted to do a little PvP too.
I loved it as well, especially when Qeynos human warriors started next to the arena. Just sit there and pick them off 1 by 1!
I had the opportunity to PvP on both PvP rulesets in Vanguard. First, on the faction-based pvp server, Varking and later on the FFA (Free for all) server, Sartok, established during server merges. FFA didn't have the drawback of mob training within one's own faction. Competing for content was done via PvP and not by a group's overall dps on a mob. I hope both rulesets are available in Pantheon to accomodate different styles of play, however, if faction-based PvP is the only option, I hope the developers consider how mob ownership is establihed (overall dps, first to attack, etc...) as well as make the appropriate adjustments to reduce the effectiveness of training.
Kilsin said:BamBam said:Killin thanks a lot for your response! I respect your decisions and ofc I will adapt just fine :) But I still see the option to merge these two worlds. As I see it you balance pve, then you adjust skills for pvp. As an example a long duration mess could last 20 s on a mob, but in pvp max duration is 5 s. Maybe people have to be ok with everything is not in total balance and complete harmony in pvp. Maybe pvp is only for fun, with no direct ingame honor system and pvp gear to break it. Only reason to pvp is for territories, for guild battels, and for fun. I'll still put my vote on the mixed pve/pvp server as I main one char and rarely cares for arts, specially alts on other serves, maybe that's just me :) Again thanks <3
Isaya the pvp on / pvp off would fix?
You're welcome my friend, you're welcome to give feedback during testing too, let the devs know what you think of the PvP and how you think it could be better, same goes for the PvE players on PvE content. :)
So there will be both PVE and PVP testing servers?
Yes on Varking one of the only reasons people used monks were to literally troll there own faction with training mobs deep into a dungeon type area to try to wipe groups. Seemed intresting how ever iam sure that was not the intent of the class when it was brought into existance.
Mod Edit: Changed to English
I am hoping there will be some sort of arena setting. We'll be able to /duel on a PVE server right? I don't care if things are "balanced" for PVP on a PVE server ... I am just hoping people can dabble with it from time to time. It was mentioned we will "never be able to PVP on a pure PVE server." Will there be unpure PVE servers? What exactly is PVP considered? I can understand if we will never be able to flag for open world PVP on a PVE server, but what about letting people have at it in a controlled environment, even if it means sticking to the same PVE balance ruleset? For someone like me, I don't really care about it being balanced ... I would just like to mess around and have some fun, friendly competition with guild mates (or rival guilds) from time to time. If Paladins are OP because of LoH, good for them. If rogues are amazing because of their ability to sneak around, great. If warriors (what I will be playing) absolutely suck due to how they are balanced for PVE, I don't really care. It's just to mess around with friends, not climb a competitive ladder.
I really enjoy some occassional PVP but I find it very unlikely that I will want to play on multiple servers to be able to fulfill the desire. Pantheon is being built from the ground up with PVE in mind so PVP feels like more of an after thought, and that doesen't sound very appealing when it comes to making a permanent server choice. If it is truly the case that we won't see any form of PVP whatsoever on PVE servers, I genuinely hope we have other forms of "player vs player competition." If we can't kill each other (or at least knock them out or whatever) hopefully we will see things like fishing tournaments, or even a PVE arena. Something like a small arena that continues to spawn waves of mobs and tracks efficiency for groups. Maybe a leaderboard to see which group cleared the most amount of waves, or who cleared X amount of waves the fastest, or with the least deaths.
Many folks share in the idea that they want the world to feel alive. There are plenty of ways to do that server side, but allowing freedom amongst the players is just as important. I would be disappointed if I couldn't meaningfully interact with other players outside of my group or raid. The main reason people enjoy PVP is because it isn't nearly as predictable as PVE. That same thought process should receive heavy consideration on a PVE server. I want to be able to interact with other players in ways that might not be predictable. This includes getting trained and DPS racing but could also mean players killing bankers or quest givers ... destroying/creating a bridge, opening or locking doors, etc. I know all of this is basically creating an environment for trolls to thrive in but it also feels like you are taking off the training wheels.
Manouk said:I would suggest for PVP server to make no attempt to balance the classes, rather leave them as is.
This! Its a group based mmo. Its not meant to be fairly balanced between individuals, but with the group make up. Just Take a PvE server and simply turn PvP on to make a PvP server. Different rulesets would be nice though.You dont need fancy things like seiges and such either. Instead of fighting over castles, you fight over dungeons: PvPvE style.
OneADseven,
I really enjoy reading your posts. They are well thought out and logical. I don’t claim to know you, but I am surprised you are not a straight PvP player. With the wide base of knowledge of each class, that you posses, and the extra competition PvP brings to the table, you seem a perfect fit. What is it about PvP that makes you not go that route entirely? Again, you are certainly able to play whatever you want. And play any style you want. I’m just curious. One of the big reasons I play PvE is because players are so much harder to out- think than the standard E mobs.