I saw a YouTube video yesterday. It was posted because a player in Warframe took 2 hours to help the YouTuber, after seeing a few of his questions.
Is it that rare now? Does Pantheon have the community and ideas that will foster a helpful environment?
I am torn between wanting an old-school player base and wanting Pantheon to be wildly successful.
Well, community is as community does. If you help out others, it's a start.
In ESO I regularly went out of my way to help "newbies" in trouble. I grouped with PUGs and tried to talk them through some harder group content (not always successfully, but hey...), crafted gear for free, healed players trying to solo starter bosses even though I could have one-shotted them... I also gave away free vampire/werewolf bites to counter toxic players who killed the NPCs that could bite players and then selling (or scamming people for) bites themselves. There are lots of ways to help. Your guild could even set aside some slower periods when you know there will be no raids or serious playing to help out others.
I also had help from other players. Being newish to raiding, I once tried to tank a starter group dungeon and failed miserably, but my group, all strangers to me, gave me some tips and gear I was lacking to actually tank and we completed the dungeon. One of the most memorable moments I have from the game, and that wasn't so long ago, so I think there's hope that a helpful community can emerge in a new game.
I think examples like this are very rare and have been since MMOs went "mainstream". I work for a (big) company full of geeky people like me and most of them that play MMOs only really socialize with rl friends and family, or at most their guilds.
I blame the decline of community engagement on two things: First, the trend in MMOs to make much of their games soloable, and second, the social trend that WoW really started where people were getting their RL friends to play the game with them. That social trend isn't a bad thing but people will always think more about the folks they see at work or school everyday than they do about faceless folks from the internet.
I think a big part of why helping others has withered down to rarity is because items tend to be soulbound, level restricted, and constantly outleveled/upgraded. You can't pass off some old gear to help some newbie like you could back in the old days, I remember when I was starting out in EQ a higher level player gave my paladin a full set of bronze armor and a barbed leather whip to help me get started and I used that gear well into my leveling.
Another thing is buffs tend to be very limited now. You can rarely buff players outside your group and when you can the buff often gets downscaled to be a buff equal to the level of the target so it doesn't really help them as much as it could and isn't a memorable experience. Having high levels run past in EQ that decide to toss a buff your way was always a delight, getting a high level damage shield as a lowbie was amazing. I distinctly remember when Kunark came out and a bored gnome mage named "Puntme" spent a good couple hours just chatting with newbie Iksar & handing out damage shields.
I think this is an example of a statistical outlier help-wise, but as a hardcore player I always buff people around me or help knock out a named if I have the time. I'd venture to say most people are helpful in that regard. With great power comes great responsibility and all that stuff; feels good to help people.
There are a lot of ways that the community can be friendly and helpful without handing out buffs or giving away gear. As Iksar mentioned, just talking to each other is a great start.
Chat someone up who seems to be struggling and see if they want help. Maybe they're trying to use the wrong spell line to kite, could be using a more mana efficient spell or perhaps choose a melee weapon that doesn't steal aggro from the tank every 10 seconds.
Meet someone who is crafting awesome armour and offer to watch their back the next time they have to go collecting materials.
Find someone on the road who's trying to travel between cities and give them directions or offer to provide them with an escort.
Go to the pub in town and find someone who wants to role-play. Buy them a beer and sing songs together.
MMOs don't have to be cold if the community makes an effort to humanize the game. (No disrespect to gnomes, elves, dark myr...) I get the sense from the Pantheon forum that we've got an awesome community of players already gathering here and that the in-game experience on Terminus is going to be something that we recall fondly for years to come.
The other day I was running around on my white mage in ffxiv, doing her story stuff in one of the newer, high level areas. I came around a corner and say a monk who had pulled four monsters and was trying to fight them. He was losing. So, I tossed a heal on him which allowed him to finish the fight. He didn't see me, since I was partly behind a rock off to the side, and I went on my way once it was clear he was good. But after he finished the fight he said "whoever healed me just then, thanks so much!" in shout.
happy story, right? Except that before I tossed that heal, I watched four other players ride by on mounts, and not one of them even stopped to look if he needed help.
I want pantheon to be a game where random helpful acts aren't rare or random. Where players heal, buff, and help each other because the game is tough and they would want someone to do the same for them. Slower progression, group-required content, avoiding quests that lead players by the nose, keeping travel speed sane and reasonable are things that all would help influence players to take time out for each other, compared to many other games out there.
The more of that we can encourage, the more the game's community will become a draw. It will keep people interested in playing and subscribing for longer, and help insure that new players stick around long enough to succeed and get invested in the game. Add in something like progeny to keep low level areas populated, and maybe we can get closer to the ideal of a self sustaining player population so that pantheon is still going strong years and years after launch. Wouldn't that be cool?
Porygon said:Google is the best helper. (For established games)
Pretty much this.
99% of questions that people have can be resolved by a Google search, so it's a waste of time to ask. Unless you have a very specific question that you can't find an answer to, such as poorly documented advanced game mechanics, it's not really necessary.
People aren't less helpful, they just need to learn to be more self sufficient considering you can now have the entirety of human knowledge condensed into a device that fits in your pocket.
In EQ2 a couple of years ago I announced my in-game retirement of my Illy. I was asked why I was leaving the game etc. and I had to explain it was an IN-GAME RETIREMENT. This meant, by my own definition, that I would no longer raid or attempt new content etc. I was in a pretty happy place with what I had and had achieved. This also meant that I would sit under a tree in Qeynos and help anyone who needed help. If they needed quest help I would guid them through it without actually telling them everything. I would through vague hints out there until they got it. Sometimes I would do my own little quest - say, Paying 5pp for any 12 bones you bring me - things like that. If someone need help for a specific kill, I could do that for them too. I love to craft and sometimes you have to make things that no one really wants or can afford. So I would hand these items out for free. Nothing was overpowering but it would genuinely help those that took it. Sometimes I would see a noob run by. I would point out a nearby quest that they didn't know about and would result in a free horse.
I love helping people having a difficult time. At the same time, it is VERY important to NOT do the game for them. If they get everything handed to them they will have no respect for the game and will not stay. Make them work for it.
I think there is now a different mindset within the gaming community as a whole. What influences a gaming community? Now that the gaming world is now more accesible and alot more mainstream compared to 13 years ago with the addition of achieving 5 mins of instant fame and glorification of social media trolling, it tends to cultivate a mindset of ME ME ME and develops satisfaction of the suffering of others. Unfortunately it is very rare to help others now and the only way to essentially combat this is if you design the game in a way to reward others for helping out the community.
Talking out-loud.
In-game related stuff? I think is better in saying outloud. It adds to general in game chatter to hear how a small group is discussing things. Yes, its a bit of eavesdropping but it makes the world more alive to me and in-game stuff is ok to eavesdrop. This also makes guild halls important because if there is something you want to keep private or hide strategies from everyones ears then the guild hall- speaking outloud- makes sense. If you are just speaking in a chat or guild chat, whats the point of the hall? since guild channels are private anyways.
Also talking outloud in game allows/forces everyone to pay attention to what you are saying and actually finish reading what you are saying if in a group or clean up their channel if they are missing too many things and its easy to spot who is not paying attention.
A simple hail and response in acknowledgment, out-loud, of your pressence allows for further communication. If you acknowledge me but then ignore me,fine, I'll make up my own reasons but still an acknowledgment is nice. Even if you dont speak the language respond in your language! I'll get the hint! and behave accordingly (/shout... ha ha)
One of the things I liked was speaking out loud in a busy dungeon and someone shouting something but it flying up past the chat window and asking- what was that?! did she say train?!
Liav said:Porygon said:Google is the best helper. (For established games)
Pretty much this.
99% of questions that people have can be resolved by a Google search, so it's a waste of time to ask. Unless you have a very specific question that you can't find an answer to, such as poorly documented advanced game mechanics, it's not really necessary.
People aren't less helpful, they just need to learn to be more self sufficient considering you can now have the entirety of human knowledge condensed into a device that fits in your pocket.
Right, if someone asks me what the best spec is or why I geared a certain way, I'll spend an hour educating them. But if you ask me where npc1 is located and it's the first result on a Google search... that's what I have issues with.
Ill gladly assist you, I'm not going to play the game for you, which is what most people want.
When it comes to riding by someone who pulled to many mobs, it can go either way... if I pulled 4 mobs on purpose to test out my ability to kill multiple mobs, I don't want help. Or if I'm on my way to a dungeon, is it worth it to help random monk 1 when he could just run away, vs potentially dying and delaying my group??
Ill gladly assist you, I'm not going to play the game for you, which is what most people want.
Newb response to ongoing conversations incoming!!
I think this is where the road splits. I have been helped and been the helper. There are people who need help with random things that are just not coming together for them, and the people who just want a quick hand up. Asking for directions could be random conversation, or lazy. It's text how do you know? (not to say the ones that just want to run from one hub to the next aren't obvious - they are)
A game where each class is significantly different and has to do things differently to progress may make the questions more specific to a degree at least in say, starter zones, I think. I think instead of assuming intent just responding in any way makes you a better thought of player, people remember your name and look you up with real questions later.
I also work in customer service ... and well ha ha its probably engrained in me brain.
Many people are genuinely helpful to others even in these degenerate days after the fall (with MMOs that can be solod and spawn that you don't need to wait a week for respawn).
Sometimes too helpful; while some people like any help they can get others find that someone giving them a lot of game currency (by new character standards) or an overpowered long lasting buff takes away some of the fun and lessens the feeling of accomplishment from succeeding. Of course, they can reject the money and get rid of the buff so I am not saying that offering help is bad by any means.
But in LOTRO, EQ2, Rift and FFXIV (the MMOs I have played over the last few years) I have found a lot of helpful nice people. And many of the other type, of course.
cybael said:
Ill gladly assist you, I'm not going to play the game for you, which is what most people want.
Newb response to ongoing conversations incoming!!
I think this is where the road splits. I have been helped and been the helper. There are people who need help with random things that are just not coming together for them, and the people who just want a quick hand up. Asking for directions could be random conversation, or lazy. It's text how do you know? (not to say the ones that just want to run from one hub to the next aren't obvious - they are)
A game where each class is significantly different and has to do things differently to progress may make the questions more specific to a degree at least in say, starter zones, I think. I think instead of assuming intent just responding in any way makes you a better thought of player, people remember your name and look you up with real questions later.
I also work in customer service ... and well ha ha its probably engrained in me brain.
I really feel like after 18 years of mmos I've acquired the ability to read people's intent. People who are truly lost, go about asking for help a different way (i know because I do it to). You can spot the difference before ever responding to them!
That being said, ill help you all day if I really believe you need it.
In my opinion, most modern MMOs, and even EQ, EQ2, and Vanguard after a while, foster a certain amount of "Me first!" attitude. It all started when they began "dumbing down" the game in an effort to make it "easier to play to appeal to the masses". This, to me, has lead to the death of the social aspect of MMOs.
I am hoping that Pantheon briongs that back.
Kalok said:In my opinion, most modern MMOs, and even EQ, EQ2, and Vanguard after a while, foster a certain amount of "Me first!" attitude. It all started when they began "dumbing down" the game in an effort to make it "easier to play to appeal to the masses". This, to me, has lead to the death of the social aspect of MMOs.
I am hoping that Pantheon briongs that back.
I agree, add on the ease of soloing in most games. You dont NEED to have a group, if you do, its for 1 quest and then you immediately disband. Im looking forward to adding people to my friends list again!
Porygon said:Kalok said:In my opinion, most modern MMOs, and even EQ, EQ2, and Vanguard after a while, foster a certain amount of "Me first!" attitude. It all started when they began "dumbing down" the game in an effort to make it "easier to play to appeal to the masses". This, to me, has lead to the death of the social aspect of MMOs.
I am hoping that Pantheon briongs that back.
I agree, add on the ease of soloing in most games. You dont NEED to have a group, if you do, its for 1 quest and then you immediately disband. Im looking forward to adding people to my friends list again!
I agree. Some of my best memories are pick-up groups and making new friends.
Warframe isn't the greatest to use as a base for this question. I have been playing warframe off and on since it started its beta for about 4+ years now, and the chat system is HORRIBLE. Possibly one of the worst chat systems in any mmo I have played. Only time people look at chat in that game is on the LFG channel and the Trade channel.
I recall trying to play WoW with my brother. EQ2 had started its decline after Daybreak took over and let their greed get the better of them. As a long time EQ2 player I was an expert at it, but WoW I was pretty new to. I decided to make a hunter and try my hand at dungeons. I kept getting insulted and kicked out of dungeons or just booted out without any clue as to why. The problem was that my pet had a growl setting that could possibly pull hate from the tank. The pet never did, but these WoW veteran had no time for a loser that didn't understand the game. It isn't just the rarity of a helping soul, guiding you through a tough time. It is the insensitive nature of gaming in general. There are too many 13-year-olds and elitist players that grew up in a world without a need for true social interaction. We need an old school game like Pantheon to help us get back to the more helpful side of ourselves. I am not sure it is even possible. There are those of us who love to help and will continue to do so. There is just too much influence to the contrary from other outside games to undo the damage. I think the best we can hope for is that Pantheon gives us like-minded souls a haven to retreat to.
Grimvalor said:Warframe isn't the greatest to use as a base for this question. I have been playing warframe off and on since it started its beta for about 4+ years now, and the chat system is HORRIBLE. Possibly one of the worst chat systems in any mmo I have played. Only time people look at chat in that game is on the LFG channel and the Trade channel.
I anticipate that the chat system will be fairly similar to EQ or Vanguard. With that being said, there has been some mention of group and/or guild voice chat as well.
Unsquishable said: I will say a turn off for me, is asking a question in general and getting, "Google!" Or whatever similar vein or intent as an answer. While that is the most obvious answer of all, part of playing a social game is I'd much rather talk and discuss the game with other people than read static web posts. The min/max persona has gone way beyond stats and builds to thinking it stupid or a waste not to go after information the most efficient way. I can't tell you how many friends I've made, conversations I've had, or groups I ended up in that started with a question. I'm looking forward to getting back to a general chat that sounds more like a large group conversation I enjoy having on and reading, vs considering often to turn off due to all the grief.
Am with you all day on this. For me it comes back to, why play an MMO if you are not going to contribute to the community? It's very immersion breaking, to ask a question and being directed outside the game for an answer, especially makes me cringe on RP servers.
Though I can understand if you see a player constantly asking for help the easy thing is to say "Google is your friend.". Like my parents used to say though "If you have nothing good to say, say nothing." so if you are not contributing to the conversation you are derailing it. Just think, the person you told to "Google it." (which they know but maybe they thought they were in a community) with a little compassion and time could have become a close friend ingame or IRL. One of my close friends IRL started as a conversation in EQ, then she became my go to healer for camps, LDoN, and just chatting. She is still in my life 16 years later, and all it took was to answer a question in chat.