Zorkon said:Just because you belive it brings nothing too the game does not make it true.
Just because you belive it will go unnoticed does not make it true.
That may well be your experience with it but it is not the experience of countless others of us who have repeatedly pointed out things that will be missed, but you eat her didn't actually read the thread or you simply choose to ignore them.
Want another? There is the old standard talking to the Banker and then all the sudden you hear a "Smack" and the guy beside you is laying on the floor where he mistakenly hit his auto attack button. THAT is funny, and the loss of these things WILL be noticed.
A LIVE world instead of a Nutered world... if people want there hand held there are lots of games out there for that already.
Actually i read all of them, and considered them carefully, and a banker one shotting a dude might be funny, but what you forget about it within the next 15 seconds, but than remember the one time you tried to turn a quest but couldn't due to him killing him for 2 hours straight and i remember in for the next 5 years, yeah it makes a difference but in a negative way than in a positive one. If you want it to be really immmesive and "life like" how about we make it to where we can destroy tradeskilling stations and mean most of them are made out of either wood or metal correct? it basically the same thing other than it has never been done in a mmo, but not being able to destory them is non-immersive so maybe we should be abe to destroy them to make everything immersive as you want it to be.
That's a huge leap there. Characters/Creatures in the world are all over the place, they all have HP and you spend most of your time killing them all over the world but now you want to change the rules for select few and break the idea that all NPCs are living characters in the world, making the world suddenly less coherent. Destroying tradeskill stations? None of them are destructable/killable to begin with so not being able to destroy them doesn't one day jar a person or interfere with the way they have been playing/perceiving the world from the start.
I remember playing Skyrim and I can't tell you how maddening it was to find out I couldn't kill certain NPCs or children. I didn't go into the game wanting to kill children but having an invincible tiny human running around calling all the guards with no way to stop it was ridiculous, it took the world and returned it to just being a game; it broke my immersion. Subjective word of the year I know, to me immersion isn't getting lost in a game while forgetting I am even playing a game, I always know I am playing a game, but being able to see a game world as a coherent and otherwise believable.
So to have merchants/bankers be the kid from Skyrim really irks me.
Iksar said:That's a huge leap there. Characters/Creatures in the world are all over the place, they all have HP and you spend most of your time killing them all over the world but now you want to change the rules for select few and break the idea that all NPCs are living characters in the world, making the world suddenly less coherent. Destroying tradeskill stations? None of them are destructable/killable to begin with so not being able to destroy them doesn't one day jar a person or interfere with the way they have been playing/perceiving the world from the start.
I remember playing Skyrim and I can't tell you how maddening it was to find out I couldn't kill certain NPCs or children. I didn't go into the game wanting to kill children but having an invincible tiny human running around calling all the guards with no way to stop it was ridiculous, it took the world and returned it to just being a game; it broke my immersion. Subjective word of the year I know, to me immersion isn't getting lost in a game while forgetting I am even playing a game, I always know I am playing a game, but being able to see a game world as a coherent and otherwise believable.
So to have merchants/bankers be the kid from Skyrim really irks me.
But the point is simply the only reason people wouldn't want tradeskill stations to be destryed is becuase the only thing you would get out of it is becuase it would only lead to is greiving, which is exactly the same thing you would get from attacking merchants/bankers/quest givers, your doing nothing other than that. becuase im hearing all these things about how not being able to attack them being non imerssive, but i havent heard one thing at all that actually makes it a good thing, other than it is immersive, so give me a list of things that you actually benefit from you being able to attack them, other than it actually is immersive and im sure i could give yo a much bigger reason on why it is a bad thing to have.
There are plenty of ways to let them be killed while still preventing griefing and to me that is the best middle ground. Have city merchants/bankers/and most quest givers respawn in one or two minutes and:
A) Respawn with a "divine shield" granting them invulnerability for anywhere from one to five minutes that also negates them from entering combat.
B) Respawn with a "vengeance" buff that grants them massive damage boost and damage reduction against anyone that has damaged them within the past hour or so.
Alternatively, have banks accessable by interacting with a static deposit box type thing and merchants wares be accessable by interacting with a display case or something. In EQ sometimes it was very helpful for merchants to be killed since it refreshed their item listings, they had limited slots to show items sold to them by players so other than server maintainence you had to kill them.
Immersion is enough.
In your idea of being able to destroy crafting stations, Did you follow Everquest Next? I was a supporter on that and one of the goals there was 100% destructability. So yes, I'm OK with destroying crafting stations, walls, trees, rocks all of it... I play a Wizard. I launch an Ice Comet I want to see a crater in the ground!.... but your asking too much of current technology.
Really this thread just needs brought back to the suggestion by the OP. To solve the problems your pointing out, while keeping the Immersion we are looking for.
Our immersion does not have to be sacrifice to solve your problem. There are better ways. And the OP suggest one.
If a player is KOS to merchants or bankers maybe the NPC refuses to do business with them until they change thier status either by spell or killing mobs to raise faction.
Now if the player can not or will not change their faction status to an NPC then maybe the player can give the NPC enough money to allow them to buy or sell but they would have to do it each time they want to buy or sell to that NPC.
What business NPC would turn down cash?
Iksar said:There are plenty of ways to let them be killed while still preventing griefing and to me that is the best middle ground. Have city merchants/bankers/and most quest givers respawn in one or two minutes and:
A) Respawn with a "divine shield" granting them invulnerability for anywhere from one to five minutes that also negates them from entering combat.
B) Respawn with a "vengeance" buff that grants them massive damage boost and damage reduction against anyone that has damaged them within the past hour or so.
Alternatively, have banks accessable by interacting with a static deposit box type thing and merchants wares be accessable by interacting with a display case or something. In EQ sometimes it was very helpful for merchants to be killed since it refreshed their item listings, they had limited slots to show items sold to them by players so other than server maintainence you had to kill them.
Zorkon said:Immersion is enough.
In your idea of being able to destroy crafting stations, Did you follow Everquest Next? I was a supporter on that and one of the goals there was 100% destructability. So yes, I'm OK with destroying crafting stations, walls, trees, rocks all of it... I play a Wizard. I launch an Ice Comet I want to see a crater in the ground!.... but your asking too much of current technology.
Really this thread just needs brought back to the suggestion by the OP. To solve the problems your pointing out, while keeping the Immersion we are looking for.
Our immersion does not have to be sacrifice to solve your problem. There are better ways. And the OP suggest one.
I know the OP suggested one, i was the one that made this thread, and immersive isn't enough is the backlash of that immersion is grieving, there has to be a balance, and if having merchant be attacked and killed over and over again to prevent people fom doing something they want, than that not fair to the recipient that is recieving this treatment, and also on another topic you cant choose you want immersion and than use a non immersion fix use you can still keep in immersive that simply doesn't make any sense to me.