Forums » The Cleric

Cleric class balance

    • 12 posts
    September 12, 2017 10:48 AM PDT

    I have been reading the forums under cleric. I have played a cleric or healer type (hyrbrid) and is usually the first class i choose in any new mmo I play, if possible.

    The reality is, will this hold up a group from enjoying the game if no cleric is found? This game will fall apart if this was true. Don't get me wrong, i liked my cleric , but also like my other healing class for their support roles. Also, I have played in groups where pull after pull involved no cleric, and it all depended on how well the group plays together. 

    For example, ive been in groups where if they did not have a shaman /enchanter, the group will wipe because of all the possible adds and where single pulls are not possible, will not matter how good the cleric is. Don't forget the mobs can also crit strike. As the only healer the shaman's slow/dots make up for the pure healing power of the cleric, but cc is will be more important for adds. The druids should have less resists for dots, and should be able to slow animal types if only healer as well as the dots/dd they have. I think this would make them more valuable, the overall should equal to the same result just played differently.

    The disc priest in wow for example, is required to do both damage and healing, if not, will run out of mana or by that time the mob/boss might enrage if the priest does not as well. The holy priest is not expected to do damage , so this is part of the class balance.

    As far as rezzes, maybe not having a rez in group will make the group rush less through content? Not sure about my opinion about rezzes....maybe you can make an expensive /rare rez item available based upon tradeskkill for those clases who do not have rez? Maybe all healer types should be able to rez...not sure the answer.

     

    • 2579 posts
    September 12, 2017 11:19 AM PDT

    Clerics, Druids, and Shamans will all be able to fill the healing role. They will just each have different ways of accomplishing that. And there may be some situations where one has a slight advantage over the others, but all 3 will still be capable.

    • 9 posts
    September 12, 2017 11:57 AM PDT

    It's going to be interesting to see what's done with clerics compared to EQ. Druids can heal and have good dots/nukes. Shammys can slow and do dmg. Clerics can heal...and? If clerics are just a good of healer as druids and shammy than they will probably end up having a secondary role unlike EQ.

    • 2579 posts
    September 12, 2017 12:20 PM PDT

    Utica said:

    It's going to be interesting to see what's done with clerics compared to EQ. Druids can heal and have good dots/nukes. Shammys can slow and do dmg. Clerics can heal...and? If clerics are just a good of healer as druids and shammy than they will probably end up having a secondary role unlike EQ.

    We already know that Clerics have the highest amount of pure healing output. Of course, they have other minor abilities to supplement that, but their main thing is sheer healing. As an example of comparison, we've seen in the streams that Shamans don't have as high of healing numbers as Clerics, but they make up for this by slowing the enemies attacks. (Don't need to heal as much if the enemies isn't dealing as much damage) Both accomplish essentially the same thing, just through different means. Again, there may be certain zones or areas where one approach is slightly more effective than the other.

    • 251 posts
    September 12, 2017 3:32 PM PDT

    Utica said:

    Clerics can heal...and?

    We don't know yet really.  Some people have firm and loud opinions they like to try and force you to accept.  But you know what I want to know,  "What do you think Cleric should do, besides healing?"

     

    • 97 posts
    September 12, 2017 6:39 PM PDT

    clerics can heal, and look good while doing it. We will have nice armor as opposed to leaves and twigs and girly robes.

    • 9 posts
    September 13, 2017 12:32 PM PDT

    We don't know yet really.  Some people have firm and loud opinions they like to try and force you to accept.  But you know what I want to know,  "What do you think Cleric should do, besides healing?"

     

     

    I like clerics basically being full healers (and good dps against undead) like EQ. I enjoy classes that are pure classes and not hybrids...and i enjoy hybrid classes. Both should be options.

    • 322 posts
    October 29, 2017 8:53 PM PDT

    ZennExile said:

    Utica said:

    Clerics can heal...and?

    We don't know yet really.  Some people have firm and loud opinions they like to try and force you to accept.  But you know what I want to know,  "What do you think Cleric should do, besides healing?"

     

    Buffs which cause someone to proc damage (holy fire, divine, etc.).

    the classic anti-undead/evil spell line.

    anti heals which prevent mobs from healing or regening, possibly including a heal spell immediate interrupt.

    more class unique status effect cures than the other guys.

    temporary HP buffs.

    AOE heals.

    very occasional divine style summons who only stay for a little bit to do a bunch of damage or heal everyone or something.

    Divine guidance type spells which tell you where to go in a dungeon to get to something you want.

    I'm sure there are plenty of other fun options too to make clerics more exciting than heal bots=)

    • 80 posts
    October 29, 2017 10:27 PM PDT

    BeaverBiscuit said:

    Snip

    Yup, plenty of good ways to add more depth to the character class without watering down other classes, or take anything away from them. The way I see it, Clerics are more the defensive type of support type. It specializes in damage prevention, immunity, defensive buffs and means to be particularly effective against Undead/Evil. Such as having CC against them, wards, or higher damage against them, as well as things like "Holy Fire proc buffs".

    As an example you could have 3 different specializations:

    Inquisitor - specializes in dealing with evil, and anything "unpure", the most offensive option available to Clerics.

    Templar - specializing in augmenting his team with more powerful buffs and absorbtion shields.

    Bishop - the more healing oriented focus, offering some additional healing spells that the base Cleric kit does not offer.

     

    • 33 posts
    November 7, 2017 1:10 PM PST

    In Everquest, a group could get along without a cleric, but it was more difficult.  Without a cleric, typically the group needed at least a shaman and a druid to be as effective in raw healing power as a cleric.  This worked, though as the game was balanced by being completely unbalanced:

    1) Clerics had the raw healing power and the best hit point and AC buffs, but were almost completely group dependent.  They had some ability to solo undead. Groups with a cleric were typically able to fight toe-to-toe with enemy, raw healing power versus raw damage.

    2) Shamans had one of most powerful abilities in the game, slow, which dramatically reduced the enemy's damage output.  Once slow landed, Shamans were able to heal as effectively as clerics.  Many monsters were resistant to slow, so it was not a guarantee.  Shamans also had the most powerful movement speed, haste and stat buffs.  They were not as group dependent as clerics and were fantastic duoing and could reasonably solo. Groups with just a shaman healing needed to change their tactics so that the shaman could first land his/her slow, but have a plan to keep agro away immediately after.

    3) Druids were a hybrid.  They could heal, nuke, buff, and debuff, but not as well as the cleric or the shaman.  They had the best heal over time spells in the game, tons of movement-related buffs/debuffs, decent nukes/dots, thorns buff, etc. They were accomplished soloers, and could solo nearly any non-magic immune monster outdoors within 5 levels. They could also teleport all around the world and running speed buffs, making them the masters of movement. Groups with a druid needed to also change their tactics, instead, relying on kiting and weaving in and out of combat.

    Regardless, the best groups had both a cleric and a shaman or a cleric and a druid. So while the cleric outperformed the shaman and druid in raw healing power, the other priests still had something to bring to the table. I would like to see a similar strategy in Pantheon.

    I am not convinced about forced class specialization. With 15 classes, each with three different specializations, that makes 60 different potential classes specializations. Trying to balance that effectively is an endless chore that no game has ever gotten right. That is time wasted that developers could focus into something else. Instead, give players the ability to set a limited number of abilities and spells, and change those up based upon the fight’s circumstances. That way you can make each class unique without worrying about balancing each specialization compared to another classes specialization.

     

     

    • 1151 posts
    November 7, 2017 3:21 PM PST

    metteec said:

    I am not convinced about forced class specialization. With 15 classes, each with three different specializations, that makes 60 different potential classes specializations. Trying to balance that effectively is an endless chore that no game has ever gotten right. That is time wasted that developers could focus into something else. Instead, give players the ability to set a limited number of abilities and spells, and change those up based upon the fight’s circumstances. That way you can make each class unique without worrying about balancing each specialization compared to another classes specialization.

     

    I agree. I'm actually rather sick of every MMO having forced specializations/talent trees within a class. Why can't a cleric just be a cleric, a warrior a warrior, a bard a bard? Why offensive/defensive/healing spec'd clerics when they could all just be part of what it is to be a cleric, so when you get X class you know what they bring to the table no questions asked. I think having a limited action set along with the augment system they've proposed with the living codex is more than enough. 

     

    Let the classes themselves be the specialization. Cleric is the healer specialized in x, shaman the healer specialized in y, druid the healer specialized in z, and so on for the other classes/archetypes. 

    • 80 posts
    November 7, 2017 7:59 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    I agree. I'm actually rather sick of every MMO having forced specializations/talent trees within a class. Why can't a cleric just be a cleric, a warrior a warrior, a bard a bard? Why offensive/defensive/healing spec'd clerics when they could all just be part of what it is to be a cleric, so when you get X class you know what they bring to the table no questions asked. I think having a limited action set along with the augment system they've proposed with the living codex is more than enough. 

     Let the classes themselves be the specialization. Cleric is the healer specialized in x, shaman the healer specialized in y, druid the healer specialized in z, and so on for the other classes/archetypes. 

    I think with the limited amount of skills you can memorize at any given time, allows for classes to have richer role definitions without running the risk of every class effectively being a variation of a damage dealer. With this, you can invite a Cleric to fill the healer spot, fully knowing he has access to all the healing spells by simply re-arranging his active abilities.

    In a different scenario you might want the Cleric to fill a different role in the team. Maybe you're fighting undead, and in this example Clerics are specialized in dealing with Undead, so you bring one in as a damage dealer, and instead let the Druid who was previously filling the flex role, to be the group's primary healer.

    • 15 posts
    November 9, 2017 6:52 AM PST

    I am fine with being just a healer,but if i ever have downtime from healing i start dps/dispel.I this game i would like to be the Healer shaman can heal but i think Clerics is a auto for having most potent heals.

    • 22 posts
    November 20, 2017 4:12 PM PST

    Juste a quick note. In one of the recent stream, Joppa is healing as a Shaman. However, it also cast at least one cleric buff on the group so they can show more content during the stream.

     

    I believe healing classes will have different responsabilities and roles and each will shine differently at different time. Same for DPS and tank.