Forums » Pantheon Races

Serious Racial Rethink?

    • 2035 posts
    September 18, 2017 10:22 AM PDT

    Whose to day, Rencil, that VR hasn't already done what you are asking?  The races you see could represent only the initial release of playable races and that with some future expansion we'll see new player races open up.  Remember the Iksar?  the Froglocks?  the Vah Shir?  Expansion races.  It is a safe bet we'll see this in Pantheon at some point.  Looking at the Pantheon races, you can draw some straight line equivalents to EQ1 races.  The Skar will, I'm betting, play much like the Iksar played in early EQ1, that being KOS everywhere.  The Dark Myr will play similar to the Dark Elves with best night vision, probably KOS many/all places and access to very wide selection of classes. So what you're wanting is already done.

    This post was edited by Vandraad at September 18, 2017 10:23 AM PDT
    • 1175 posts
    October 14, 2017 5:52 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    I guess having and voicing differing opinions and ideas is aruging, trolling, or otherwise being unconstructive. 

    I just think its in the nature of most MMO players to argue or fight for what they want.  And anytime someone comes in with a HARD deny, they resort to the whole "trolling" issues.


    With that being said, as much as people love the ideas from games they have previously played.  I think we all need to take a step back and forget the specifics of what we want, and ask ourselves if the game itself will still be enjoyable if my race isnt EXACTLY like i want it to be.

    • 71 posts
    November 25, 2017 12:52 PM PST

    For me race means alot. From the look of it to how it compairs to what I know about that race and how they graphically make their version of it. I know when I was playing EverQuest ][ at the time and I tried Vanguard, I walked away from Vanguard not because of the bugs or lack of game play but because when I finished created my human character the stick figure arms and legs just turned me off. In EQ and EQ ][ I only played Barbarians and was limited to those classes available to that race, but even then I refused to play Beastlords and Rogues because I don't play DPS classes (only tanks, off-tanks and healers).

    In Pantheon, there are some races I just won't play because they don't look like the traditional look that I have seen since paper and pen versions where created. Already I have a hard time creating a human because I love barbarians and they won't be in the game that I know of, so I hope through caracter creation I can try to use sliders to create that look as much as possible. Thats why when I tried wow I went with the Orc race over creating a human shaman, and no way I would of ever made a non-orc because I generally did not like the looks of the other Horde classes. When I played Star Wars The Old Republic, I actually leveled a Good allied Zabrak to max level, so I could unlock it on the Empire side and then made my Empire Zabrak my main in the game (Ironically I role-played a light side sith sorceress and used my gear to hide that I wasn't a dark side sith).

    Some people get the look in mind and to them thats how it is and some people will either play that race as its envisioned by Visionary Realms, try a different race that they normally wouldn't or just not play the game. Its just who we are and how we respond and attacking people because of that is just wrong.

    • 89 posts
    December 27, 2017 1:29 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    I guess having and voicing differing opinions and ideas is aruging, trolling, or otherwise being unconstructive. 


    I think if the OP had simply said something like "As a player that always plays gnomes, I don't like what you guys did to gnomes, and I would prefer it if you gave me the opportunity to play as a regular gnome instead of changing gnomes into something that I don't think is anything like a gnome," instead of trying to turn it into something broader, speaking for other people and trying to make a business case for his/her opinion, it would have seemed less trolly and the conversation would probably have gone differently

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but how opinions are expressed make a difference in how they are received

    VR is verly likely aware that some of their design decisions will initially upset some players, but I'd bet they believe in those decisions and feel like the effort and thought they are putting into the Lore of Terminus and the world they are building around these decisions will make up for any initial shock players may experience when they first hear about (not even see or play yet) some of the things they are doing to make their world unique and interesting

    It took me a minute to accept their gnome concept as well, and I can't say even now I am super-excited about it because I feel like they might be missing some personality or expression, but I'm willing to see what they look and feel like when the game goes live before I think about flipping the switch to being disappointed... Until then I think of them as a race of normal gnomes from another planet that experienced something "regular" gnomes on other planets didn't that changed them, though they are still gnomes deep down...

    Given that I regard them as "future gnomes," I plan on my eventual Enchanter being a gnome, using science for CC instead of magic


    Now, Skar.... that's a different story... those little dudes are just ugly...

    • 134 posts
    January 30, 2018 7:36 AM PST
    Humans are the most played on all MMOs for a reason. 1 people like to put themselves into the game. Since we are human we often like to be human. 2 humans look so good in armor. I'm not sure why but in armor the odd shapes and sizes of other races pales in comparison to a human in say shining plate armor.

    Pantheon races are fine. Some feel boring and flavorless to me like the archai but I bet many will play them. Having unlockable stuff can be bad too. If you want to talk about turning people away making a player invest a ton of time on some off the wall side quest just to play the race they want is a turn off. I'm an EQ guy too and I don't have the time I used to. I have a job, a wife, kids and I want Pantheon because I want an mmo I can play again. I don't want another game that never starts till you cap out on level or requires hundreds of hours just to unlock the race you want to play. MMOs are considered a dead genre because all of us old people can't play like we used to and new MMOs are getting more time investment intensive to even get to the point where you can enjoy the game.
    • 288 posts
    February 4, 2018 9:23 PM PST

    I always preferred dark elves when available. Am I crazy excited about the races as they appear in the streams? Not really. To me, some of them look funky. But who is to say that the little ethereal gnomes shouldn't be in Terminus? I actually think they're kind of neat-looking. Also, we have to keep in mind that the models shown in the streams probably are not the final models. Several may be placeholders. We'll just have to wait and see.

    And I must add that this isn't EQ or D&D. It's a different world entirely with its own unique lore. As long as there are a couple races that I wouldn't mind playing, I'm good. Hell, in EQ I hated the way ogres and trolls looked. I thought barbarians looked a bit weird. Didn't care much for gnomes or dwarves either. But that didn't stop me from enjoying the game for extended periods of time. I just played the races I liked, or the race I disliked the least when I had no other choice. And everyone is going to have differing opinions on what looks "cool". I, for one, commend VR for doing something different and unique with the races and lore.

    Just my 2c.

    • 100 posts
    March 10, 2018 11:23 PM PST

    I think most people particularly those that aren't emotionally attached to Pantheon and are coming in fresh here will feel the same way that OP does if they've played EQ.  I know when I realized I wasn't getting my Dark Elf Necromancer I was bummed I'm also not particularly fond of the way Gnomes look.  Here's what you have to understand though rencil:

    While everyone here can appreciate that you're a fan of EQ and liked the way things were there...Brad already created that and he's not creating an EQ clone here.  Yes there's some similarities but there's also a lot of great new things as well.  Embrace the changes and understand the beautiful thing about MMO's is that they grow and evolve over time.  We gained a lot of races and classes after EQ launched and their looks changed and evolved over time as you'll recall.  So my message to new comers is fear not!  Trust the vision.

    This post was edited by Frostyglitch at March 11, 2018 2:48 PM PDT
    • 45 posts
    March 12, 2018 5:44 AM PDT

    I strongly disagree with the change suggested in the OP. This game sounds like it's the sort of game where its going to take time to level a character and where the player's connection to his or her character is going to be very personal and strong. This is also a new game which has not even released its actual Alpha yet. Having to create what would essentially be either a throw away character or a mule in order to progress to a point where you can get the race you want sounds counter-intuitive. It kind of makes me think of the new races being brought out in current World of Warcraft. The concept works there--the game is older, new races encourage existing players to make more characters, alts are common and the time / effort cost of getting a character to max level is not all that high. But if this is a game about time, effort, and consequence it seems like it would break away from that having the most core decision a player makes--choosing their character--be something they would essentially need to reset after hours or weeks of effort and committment. I'm more open to this with future expansions--by that point people are potentially more aware of what they would be getting themselves in to--but I don't think it's something that would work as well at launch. 

    • 33 posts
    April 17, 2018 12:27 PM PDT

    At a certain point, we have to accept that this game is not going to be 100% exactly what everyone is looking for. There will be things you disagree with. I'm sure there are plenty of things the people at VR chose to do that not everyone there agrees with.

    Once these big things have been set, it's time to add to them, not replace them.

    • 1821 posts
    April 17, 2018 11:41 PM PDT

    I can't agree more with other answers, the world is not "classic pen&paper rpg setup", and while it might disappoint some old fashionned players, it's a blessing from a fresh perspective and a catchline to raise interest from the younger generation.

    I don't think VR had put together this mix of races blindly, and it's a deliberate choice that is meant to make the game more than the sequel of EQ, which universe has been used and re-used.

    To me, thoses new gnomes are as much interesting, as trolls weren't in EQ1. Making things the other way around would only decrease the freshness and novelty of the game.


    Edit: Unlocking races by ingame content and achievements is the farthest immersive way to include them. A timesink that fits only games where your specific character has no meaning and the overall achievement from your account is the only value here. Pantheon, like old MMO, is a game where characters will achieve their own goals withouth inter connection, and beeing forced to grind whatever content on your main to unlock a "flashy race" is just taking the worst out of current Wow state.

    As long as a race exists, you should be able to get a fresh start with it, would it be present on terminus for 500 years or newcomers from the last collision.

    This post was edited by MauvaisOeil at April 17, 2018 11:45 PM PDT
    • 820 posts
    April 26, 2018 12:57 PM PDT

    ^^^ This

    It's about time someone tries to put a fresh perspective on old ideas. 

    • 25 posts
    April 27, 2018 12:46 PM PDT

    @rencil - Overall your arguments in this thread boil down to a falacy. They could be summed up as "My favorite color is blue and I like the sky, that's why its blue."

    You are certainly entitled to your opinion (and it is just that an opinion) that 'all the races is like a sloppy mess in a polystrene container' (paraphrased), or that it will turn off 'most' players. But you can not know that or even reasonably assume that. You don't have even a remote sample size, and in just this thread I don't think anyone has agreed with you.


    Personally I hope they have all these races, and should for some reason they have time, they add more. I'd love to see Dark Elves make it in. Trolls would be aweseome too! I also always love some good anthropomorphic animal races (like the Vah Shir from EQ) or Gnolls.

    As to the gnome complaint, I totally get why someone would want the more 'classic' gnome. Personally I find the newer ideass VR has come up with for gnomes and the Dark Myr super exciting. I also think this might be the best representation of Ogres I have ever seen.

    • 156 posts
    May 10, 2018 11:18 AM PDT

    The only reason I could see for making a race unavailable to a new player would be if it fit lore. And the only way I can come up with to do that would be to use the progeny system. 

    Lets say up to this point in time none of the races have interbred. If there is a half-elf race for instance the only way to play one would be to level a human or elf up and use the progeny sytem to create a new character that can now be a half-elf.. This would make sense to me. That being said there could be no half-elf cities or other npcs. The whole point of not allowing a player to be one at the beginig is that they don't exist yet in the lore.

    Short of that I think having all races available to anyone playing the game on day 1 is the best option. 

    • 110 posts
    May 12, 2018 8:41 AM PDT

    I actually don't mind the idea of using the progeny system to unlock special versions of races or classes, but I think this should be limited to expansion content.

    Also, I feel that it's likely that most of us will have some minor gripes with at least one of the changed races because it is different and people in general don't like change. That said, many of us will probably appreciate some of the changes because we felt that race was stale as it was or are just more interested in the new concept.

    For instance, I do not like the Archai, nothing about them is interesting to me and furthermore I do not know what standard race they are replacing, but I can guarantee that I would have prefered the standard race. Additionally, it greatly worries me that the poster dwarf is blue, I never liked the Coldain dwarves and have always thought of them as a silly gimmick, and while dwarves have always been my favorite fantasy race I can confidently state that if dwarves are limited to being shades of blue and white that I will not play one. Also, while I generally like the Skar, I feel it's because I like both trolls and iksar and skar seem to be a cross of the two and I'm pretty sure I would have prefered either trolls or iksar to the skar. However, I personally love the new gnomes and think it's a great twist on a tired race and the dark myr and their underwater cities have me so captivated that I will almost certainly be maining one.

    Edit: I have no idea why spellcheck isn't working but it isn't.

    This post was edited by Gurt at May 12, 2018 8:43 AM PDT
    • 248 posts
    May 30, 2018 7:38 PM PDT

    Just want to go on the record as saying that I personally like "cold," inhuman races, and would hate to see them made into unlockables rather than be able to play them from the beginning. I'm also not really big on making things like races/classes unlockable to begin with. I'd much rather see them all available to everyone from the beginning, and if a future expansion introduces more later on, that's awesome.

    • 15 posts
    June 2, 2018 2:09 AM PDT

    I find the idea that some races should be locked at the beginning of the game quite an alarming concept. I very much doubt they would do such a thing and fail to see how that would improve the game. Also, I think the races changes are great. It seems like there's lots of room to add some more personality to the gnomes, but I'm really into the concept in general. In my opinion, the Skar could use some toning down and I think I've read or heard they had some model issues with the race, however, I love that the violence of the Skar. I like how all the races are generally more fierce than they've been in the past.