Well I guess one of the issues is we aren't customers, we are potential customers. Pledging for a tier is nothing more than a donation; you are pledging support to the idea of Pantheon, donating toward helping VR bring that idea to fruition. As for the rest, to quote Kilsin:
Kilsin said:...I just wanted to add that we do, in fact, have our internal "overlord" that cracks the whip and forces timelines/milestones to be met, several of them actually (CEO, Chairman, Directors, Producer etc.), while still allowing us full freedom as we move forward and stay on track.
The recent missed testing target was a mistake on our part, we shouldn't have given a timeline so far away thinking it could be met when we didn't actually know, we just assumed something so far away would be easy to meet and it would have been if there wasn't a spanner thrown into the works right near the end of that timeline, which was unpreventable and forced us to push testing back.
It's good we caught it but bad for you folks who were expecting us to meet that timeline. We will be more careful in future to not release dates unless we know we can meet them. This isn't a bad thing either but in this day and age the slightest delay can bring in a whirlwind of negativity, accusations and bad press due to a bunch of other games failing and greedy companies taking peoples money and running, so sadly we, and others, get lumped into that category way too easily when something is delayed or withheld but we are mindful of that and will be more careful in future.
Great post my friend, thank you :)
Edit: to remove quote of deleted off-topic content
Well, I'm a bit impatient as well and of course always hungry for new informations about Pantheon, but when you read exaclty every information we get at different places, then you get an idea, what VR is working on at the moment
* From the July Newsletter we know for the AI part what they have done recently or what they are doing at the moment (http://www.pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2017_july_love_of_ai/).
They recoded the basic system for the AI to support their new stimuli and action system. Now they are writing tools to support the game designers to add some specific behaviour to the NPCs
* On the graphic side we already heared they improving the lightning and the shaders.
* And we know there was an VIP roundtable about crafting, so we can be sure they are at least in the concept phase for crafting now.
* Last but not least in the June Newsletter we have a lot more information what the specific people have done or doing right now (http://www.pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2017_june_devdiary/).
Just a few short examples.:
- Formulas and balancing for the combat system.
- Implemented basic version of the first trading profession (outfitter).
- Filling the world with NPC and give them a behaviour to make the world feel alive.
- Generating terrain, textures and assets for new zones ins King's Reach.
- Building the Lore for the POIs and factions n Halnir Cave, Avendyr's Pass, and the Forelyn.
There seems to be a disconnect with the idea that Pantheon is a crowd funded game. Unlike Ashes of Creation, Crowfall, Camelot Unchained, etc, Pantheon did not have a successful kickstarter campaign. This is the main reason for the veil of secrecy ... we aren't owed anything other than what is outlined in our pledges, and should consider screenshots or anything else as bonus material. While I do agree that screenshots of new zones would be more impactful, it is what it is. The important thing to remember is that pre-alpha is the top priority right now. My take on that is that VR is working on getting the game up to code to get players into their world ... that means they should be working on new starting zones, classes, etc.
The sooner we see screenshots of new material, the more likely we are to be closer to pre-alpha. I'm definitely looking forward to all of that but I would be shocked to see pre-alpha happen any time this year. I can only hope that we see a large chunk of content to digest at some point because if it continues to come at the pace we have seen it since the inception of this game, it feels like it would be an eternity before release. The content chunk is inevitable but the real question is when does it get here ... if I had to guess it would be somewhere around Christmas.
Kilsin said:Brunt said:Kilsin, can you confirm that there will be some cramped dungeons/zones? Unless I've missed it, all I've seen are pretty tall ceilings and spacious pathways. Claustrophobic isn't always a bad thing when dungeon crawling.
We definitely have tighter and more claustrophobic spaces/dungeons, they just don't view well on streams so we stick to bigger open areas and more group orientated content.
Thanks Kilsin! I can wait as long as necessary to see and play it as long as the team gets it right. March on!
Mathir said:Kilsin said:Rumlox said:more of the same zones. With every screen shot of the same things that is posted my hope that this game will ever launch gets smaller and smaller. There has been nothing new in four months.
As I said to Mathir, I fought to be able to continue showing you guys screenshots, I can only show what has been revealed officially, when we reveal a new zone, I will focus more on showing it off but for now, these are old screenshots while there is a screenshot ban in place due to the new lighting and shaders being worked on.
Patience is the key as these games take years to make.
Well, that's the most informative update we've had in awhile, just that lighting and shaders are being worked on presently. Can you just say if any new class is in active development? New or improved race models in active development? A new zone in development? Nobody knows what "getting the game ready for pre-alpha" actually means because unlike every other company crowd funding their game, you guys have a veil of secrecy on where your time is being spent. In fact, you should make that a zone in the game, "Veil of Secrecy" where the rest of Terminus knows work is being done on something, at least theoretically, but nobody knows what, if anything, is actually being accomplished. And pretty much everyone's hopes revolve around said work being completed within their lifetime.
Nobody here blames you for anything Kilsin, but you are the mouthpiece for the company. If you've been ordered to stand down for four months from revealing anything at all of note. A new monster model, a new player model, some spell effects, explanations of programming code focus, new armor, faction information, design focus, etc.... I mean, the new forums have been in the works for what, a year?, with seemingly little progress. If you put yourself in our shoes Kilsin, what do you think you would see connecting the dots? I see a game in which development appears delayed or paused, money appears to have run out, or I see developers whom are too disenchanted with their product to show it off without the smoke/mirrors of a targeted stream. Patience is important, I agree, but not blind obedience and patience. Give us some transparency to earn our patience. We've earned transparency by helping to fund this game, which would not exist, without our help. We're not, at least I'm not, asking for streams every three months. I just want some communication about where we are in the development process and what work has actually been done each month. I assume, because logical reasoning (small team, limited coders, programmers, and engineers, limited money), that you aren't getting a lot done. If you were, you'd probably be more willing to at least update us on monthly progress in at worst a vague manner. Ideally, the company would represent itself in a similar manner to Camelot or Crowfall with how they treat and update their community. Gimic contests for a singular patch note, community spotlights, and redundant screenshots for months on end say nothing other than development has stalled, the game is in trouble, and we need smoke and mirrors to distract the restless natives. Plus, it's not like there aren't serious trust issues already in existance due to "Financial History" surrounding this game's initial crowdfunding and VG. Seems almost ludicrous, taking that into account, that a veil of secrecy would be the given directive. Transparency and honesty is what allows us to forgive, forget, and hope for the best. Secrecy means just more of the same. There's a better way to handle the slow development process with the community. I have faith in you Kilsin that you will find it.
It isn't new news my friend, we have mentioned it several times, many things are being worked on, I can't discuss them just yet but we have said that pre-alpha will include 3-4 zones, most of the classes revealed and a couple of dungeons plus basic crafting/harvesting and a few other things, we mention this on our streams so I would encourage you to watch them if you haven't already.
I have also mentioned that security, server infrastructure, database etc. are all small hurdles that we are working on to get the servers ready for more people, when we get closer we will start to reveal more but until then, the team has their heads down and are working hard on these things.
I haven't been ordered to "stand down" man, this is how typical development cycles are, there are long periods of down time where the devs are working away on the next update, some of these things don;t have visual progression that we can show publically, like code, infrastructure, database and server work etc.
I understand your questions, most of them have already been addressed though, some multiple times, so please bring this back on-topic as this is not the right place to ask such questions, if you use the search function you will find most of your answers, for anything else, feel free to contact support.
I have cleaned up and removed a few posts folks, please keep this on topic, this is CM content specifically designed to give you a sneak peak into the world of Terminus, not to debate the games future or personal opinions on other matters, please respect the guidelines and this content.
Kilsin said:Questaar said:I really enjoy the screenshots you can show us. I love the high ceilings. The detail on the tree in the second shot in tremendous, and the way the firelight bounces off the metallic wall spots is so cool. Grand!
I am glad you like them, my friend, I am actually running low on screenshots so hopefully, they let me in to take new ones soon! :D
Your a rogue?? what the heck Kilsin you have all the ability in the world.. :)
I like the screenshots keep them coming.
Kilsin said:
It isn't new news my friend, we have mentioned it several times, many things are being worked on, I can't discuss them just yet but we have said that pre-alpha will include 3-4 zones, most of the classes revealed and a couple of dungeons plus basic crafting/harvesting and a few other things, we mention this on our streams so I would encourage you to watch them if you haven't already.
I have also mentioned that security, server infrastructure, database etc. are all small hurdles that we are working on to get the servers ready for more people, when we get closer we will start to reveal more but until then, the team has their heads down and are working hard on these things.
I haven't been ordered to "stand down" man, this is how typical development cycles are, there are long periods of down time where the devs are working away on the next update, some of these things don;t have visual progression that we can show publically, like code, infrastructure, database and server work etc.
I understand your questions, most of them have already been addressed though, some multiple times, so please bring this back on-topic as this is not the right place to ask such questions, if you use the search function you will find most of your answers, for anything else, feel free to contact support.
Monthly patch notes with a list of what you've accomplished in the past month solves the communication issue and takes a short period of time to write. There's no reason not to do it. The more detailed, the better. I'll leave it at that and wait to see if the communication improves. As for the screenshots, they look fine. Getting old screenshots once a week, while not overly exciting due to redundancy, is better than getting nothing, and your efforts in that regard are appreciated Kilsin. I think you do a good job, I always tell you that, but I also believe you can still take it up another notch or two even though I know your hands are tied in some respects. I'm also voting to change the name of Veil of Azeris to Veil of Secrecy.
Mathir said:Kilsin said:
It isn't new news my friend, we have mentioned it several times, many things are being worked on, I can't discuss them just yet but we have said that pre-alpha will include 3-4 zones, most of the classes revealed and a couple of dungeons plus basic crafting/harvesting and a few other things, we mention this on our streams so I would encourage you to watch them if you haven't already.
I have also mentioned that security, server infrastructure, database etc. are all small hurdles that we are working on to get the servers ready for more people, when we get closer we will start to reveal more but until then, the team has their heads down and are working hard on these things.
I haven't been ordered to "stand down" man, this is how typical development cycles are, there are long periods of down time where the devs are working away on the next update, some of these things don;t have visual progression that we can show publically, like code, infrastructure, database and server work etc.
I understand your questions, most of them have already been addressed though, some multiple times, so please bring this back on-topic as this is not the right place to ask such questions, if you use the search function you will find most of your answers, for anything else, feel free to contact support.
Monthly patch notes with a list of what you've accomplished in the past month solves the communication issue and takes a short period of time to write. There's no reason not to do it. The more detailed, the better. I'll leave it at that and wait to see if the communication improves. As for the screenshots, they look fine. Getting old screenshots once a week, while not overly exciting due to redundancy, is better than getting nothing, and your efforts in that regard are appreciated Kilsin. I think you do a good job, I always tell you that, but I also believe you can still take it up another notch or two even though I know your hands are tied in some respects. I'm also voting to change the name of Veil of Azeris to Veil of Secrecy.
This is the direction in which we are moving and I am not sure if I have said it to you guys or the VIPs, but we are preparing to start including a small update every month, starting in the next months' newsletter, my friend. So while we have already agreed to start releasing smaller updates please don't expect them to be a huge read each month, they will probably be a few key bullet points to give you an idea of what we are working on and that is about it.
The screenshots are old to me and the team since I took them in the old shaders/lighting, they are new to everyone else, including you. I have never shown the same screenshot more than once (the zones are huge and although the theme may be familiar I can guarentee it is a different part of a zone) and again, it is something extra I do for the community, it has no impact on development, it is CM content.
Hunk said: The community here could ya know...quit whining. They've stressed over and over and over that they're working on things and it takes time. Want a huge update, give this website a 6 month break and come back and you'll have a nice chunk to go over. Seriously guys...give it a rest.
I agree, there is so much negative energy out there in the world today, why bring it here on the developer forums. Also, it does make things easier when you let the game come to you rather than searching for info everyday.
I guess my OP in this thread was wrong, when watching the April stream I didn't remember seeing all the cracks in the windows but the way it's be commented on in here it seems the screenshot is old and the detail was there during the steam. Oh well still looks good to me.
Kilsin said:
This is the direction in which we are moving and I am not sure if I have said it to you guys or the VIPs, but we are preparing to start including a small update every month, starting in the next months' newsletter, my friend. So while we have already agreed to start releasing smaller updates please don't expect them to be a huge read each month, they will probably be a few key bullet points to give you an idea of what we are working on and that is about it.
While small in nature, I think providing a few bullet points will go a ways in allaying people's anxiety of what is being worked on. Personally I'm happy to wait, though that doesn't stop me from ritualistically visiting the FB page and the forums :D.
Zazzaro said:Hunk said: The community here could ya know...quit whining. They've stressed over and over and over that they're working on things and it takes time. Want a huge update, give this website a 6 month break and come back and you'll have a nice chunk to go over. Seriously guys...give it a rest.I agree, there is so much negative energy out there in the world today, why bring it here on the developer forums. Also, it does make things easier when you let the game come to you rather than searching for info everyday.
I guess my OP in this thread was wrong, when watching the April stream I didn't remember seeing all the cracks in the windows but the way it's be commented on in here it seems the screenshot is old and the detail was there during the steam. Oh well still looks good to me.
The stream was the last client that was up to date and my screenshots are all from in that client, I just can't take any screenshots in the new client that has been updated with shader and lighting changes, yet, we will do some kind of release for it like we do with everything else and then the new screenshots will start to roll out in my CM content and newsletters :)
Vaeruun said:Kilsin said:
This is the direction in which we are moving and I am not sure if I have said it to you guys or the VIPs, but we are preparing to start including a small update every month, starting in the next months' newsletter, my friend. So while we have already agreed to start releasing smaller updates please don't expect them to be a huge read each month, they will probably be a few key bullet points to give you an idea of what we are working on and that is about it.
While small in nature, I think providing a few bullet points will go a ways in allaying people's anxiety of what is being worked on. Personally I'm happy to wait, though that doesn't stop me from ritualistically visiting the FB page and the forums :D.
You would think so mate but it will basically be what I have been saying all along, just in bullet point form in the newsletter, hopefully, people will pay more attention to bullet points in the newsletter than they do to my replies lol :D
I came exclusively to preach the truth of Pie and save your souls from the trappings of Cake's twisted lies. So I vote every week someone does a step-by-step tutorial through the process of crafting a glorious Pie. Then, Photoshop a picture of the finished Pie, into the background of any new screenshot you're approved to share with the starving lurkers.
That way you got people, making Pie. #winning
People talking about Pie. #onePieOneTruth
And a fun game to play with the limited amount of media resources available to you. Like how you thicken up a Gnome Pie by using alcohol instead of blood as the stock. The alcohol boils out way faster than the water in the blood. You can do the same trick with the crust. So flaky, so easy. #proTips
You know, Pixar movies take 5-7 years to make. Nobody even knows about it until it like 1 year away.
Not that I don't understand that difference is that people have invested in it, but one does have to keep in mind that this is not a short process and there is a reason that computer stuff in movies are SOOooo.... unreal. Because actual programming, coding, "hacking" is really, really boring to watch.
Average scene in a movie or on tv:
Can you hack into that computer, the bad guys are coming.
I can try. *fingers randomly hit keys on a keyboard at a frantic rate* Okay, I'm past the first firewall. *Cut to bad guys coming closer* Oh, whoever programmed this was good, I'm going to have to get our the big guns. *Takes out a USB drive that supposedly has their special "algorithm" and plugs it into some sort of furturist main frame that has no business having USB ports* Hopefully this thing has a firewire connection, ah there it is. Now, just a second. *Bad guys burst through a door, buddy yells something about now being a good time* And I'm in. Thank god I knew Unix.
Real life:
Either some guy with pizza bites and some red bulls littering his desk sets up a brute force attack and waits for it to finish, which could be days or months and hopes nobody notices before it does finish. Very boring to watch. The other option is to find someone in the company and look through their garbage, check their desks for post it notes, look on the computer desktop or their documents folder for a text file named passwords.txt, etc.
None of this is fun to watch, though Sneakers did an okay job. And software development is about the same. The graphics and and animations steps can be fun to watch but if it isn't being developed the same way hollywood make tentpole films, those are usually the almost last things to get finished up before the polish stage. And if it isn't, well, often the result is something along the lines of a Hollywood blockbuster with a great cast, flashy special effects but a script so cringe worthy that Uwe Boll would be reluctant to film it.
So far, from what I've seen, the thing that give me the most concern is the graphics and particularly the animations. It could be a red flag, but there is so much I like of what I see and I also know the above to true. So, I am keeping myself cautiously hopeful. Give the amount of progress and the recent funding news, I am very releaved that it isn't likely to be vaporware. So, I see no reason not to give it the chance and time it needs to become the best game it can be.
Kilsin said:The stream was the last client that was up to date and my screenshots are all from in that client, I just can't take any screenshots in the new client that has been updated with shader and lighting changes, yet, we will do some kind of release for it like we do with everything else and then the new screenshots will start to roll out in my CM content and newsletters :)
Thanks for the clarification, when I said old I didnt mean anything bad by that. The screenshot just looked more crisp than what I had remembered from the stream. i just rediscovered this game so everything is new to me :). I backed Star Citizen back during the very original crowdfunding on their site in 2012 and I have no problem with their dev cycle, so you all have plenty of time on my watch.
Love the screenshot Kilsin, always do. I just wanted to chime in on this updates conversation. That type of info in the newsletter is always what i look for, and if you can add some more (like your trying to do) it will be most appreciated. If not, well thats ok to.
Bullit points, great!
But please dont water them down as "patch notes" yes i know, I'm going to be unpopular here but i find "patch notes" annoying... the're great and more power to you all to play arround with them when you like, i see a lot of you enjoy them.... but as far as info on game progress I would prefer that be a tad more serious, and what little info you can give not be watered down into a joke.
And while I'm being unpopular, had about enough of "pie" to do me for another decade as well. But I know ZennExile likes pie, so have at it Zenn,..... just no pie in the developer updates please