Forums » The Warrior

Warrior selfsustain abilities

    • 32 posts
    July 30, 2017 12:18 PM PDT

    Vanguard had some spells that healed the warrior. They got added later in the game when balancing showed the warrior being a bit behind the other tanks in solo play / self sustain. While the ability was OK it was on a longer cooldown and not really liked much. So I think the Warrior should get some help on healing.

    One perma selbuff that lasts like cleric HP buff and acts like a ward with a set % to trigger. For example the spell has a 20% chance to trigger its healing effect when the warrior is struck and heals him for 4-5% of damage.

     

    Second one is a cooldown spell. At the sight of his own blood the warriors muscles bulge with power. Heals 20% of the warriors health instantly and makes the permabuff trigger on each hit for 30 seconds. maybe make it a 2 min cooldown.

     

     

     

    • 380 posts
    July 31, 2017 11:36 AM PDT

    This is:

    1) contrary to the core of what VR says it wants to do (ie force people to group as much as possible and limit soloing by creating class interdependance)

    2) sounding rather over powered for what should end up being the best tank in game and treads on the toes of the Hybrid classes.

     

    If you want to tank and have a bit better utility play a Paladin/Dire Lord. If you want to be the best tank possible and give up almost all utility then play a Warrior.

    While I do believe that every class should be able to solo a little, this sounds like it would make the Warrior able to solo FAR to easily.

    The Warrior should need to stop every 2nd-3rd kill and let health regen for several minutes before continuing. A Paladin and Dire Lord should be a little bit better at soloing due to their increased utility than a pure tank. Not by much mind you, but slightly. Maybe a Paladin/Dire Lord would need to stop less often since they can "heal" (assuming the Dire Lord is SK like and can Life Tap) thus they can extend combat to maybe 3-4 fights before needing to stop and med for mana to "heal".

    Warriors SHOULD be slower to solo than hybrids. ITs their tradeoff for being THE tank. They have less utility, which is what allows hybrids to solo a bit better.

    • 2383 posts
    July 31, 2017 11:53 AM PDT

    kellindil said:

    This is:

    1) contrary to the core of what VR says it wants to do (ie force people to group as much as possible and limit soloing by creating class interdependance)

    2) sounding rather over powered for what should end up being the best tank in game and treads on the toes of the Hybrid classes.

     

    If you want to tank and have a bit better utility play a Paladin/Dire Lord. If you want to be the best tank possible and give up almost all utility then play a Warrior.

    While I do believe that every class should be able to solo a little, this sounds like it would make the Warrior able to solo FAR to easily.

    The Warrior should need to stop every 2nd-3rd kill and let health regen for several minutes before continuing. A Paladin and Dire Lord should be a little bit better at soloing due to their increased utility than a pure tank. Not by much mind you, but slightly. Maybe a Paladin/Dire Lord would need to stop less often since they can "heal" (assuming the Dire Lord is SK like and can Life Tap) thus they can extend combat to maybe 3-4 fights before needing to stop and med for mana to "heal".

    Warriors SHOULD be slower to solo than hybrids. ITs their tradeoff for being THE tank. They have less utility, which is what allows hybrids to solo a bit better.

    Agreed. I'd be okay with one or two situational/minor self sustain abilities to help warriors solo in pinch, but the numbers provided are incredibly OP and would have to be dialed way back (or the cooldown significantly longer than 2 mins) so that basically it's definitely better than nothing, but soloing would still be slow and difficult.

    • 954 posts
    July 31, 2017 4:39 PM PDT

    kellindil said:

     

    2) sounding rather over powered for what should end up being the best tank in game and treads on the toes of the Hybrid classes.

     

    Warriors SHOULD be slower to solo than hybrids. ITs their tradeoff for being THE tank. They have less utility, which is what allows hybrids to solo a bit better.

     

    Have they stated this anywhere at all, that warrior are THE tank? Or is this just some assumed fantasy? I'd imagine it is much more likely that warrior are A tank and that THE tank will change often based the content being attempted. 

     

    Either way it is far too early to both consider warriors needing self healing/self sustain abilities but more importantly, to assume anything at all about a class (and those sharing an archetype) that hasn't been detailed. 

    • 380 posts
    August 1, 2017 5:07 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    kellindil said:

     

    2) sounding rather over powered for what should end up being the best tank in game and treads on the toes of the Hybrid classes.

     

    Warriors SHOULD be slower to solo than hybrids. ITs their tradeoff for being THE tank. They have less utility, which is what allows hybrids to solo a bit better.

     

    Have they stated this anywhere at all, that warrior are THE tank? Or is this just some assumed fantasy? I'd imagine it is much more likely that warrior are A tank and that THE tank will change often based the content being attempted. 

     

    Either way it is far too early to both consider warriors needing self healing/self sustain abilities but more importantly, to assume anything at all about a class (and those sharing an archetype) that hasn't been detailed. 

    This is something Brad has always done with Pure Classes vs Hybrids and they have stated several times that pure classes will be "The Best" at their role, whereas hybrid utility classes will still be "good" but WILL be secondary to the pure Classes.

    The Warrior is a Pure Melee Tank. Just as the Monk and Rogue are PURE DPS and the Cleric is PURE healing. Leaning on what Brad and co has done in the past and how this has been handled in the past I think it is safe to assume that this is how they are going to structure classes. Of course they are not going to say anything yet in detail.

    Look at the class descriptions:

    Warrior: The Warrior seemingly defies limits of physical strength, ability and resilience. However, not content with fortitude alone, he also refines his mind, becoming a master strategist in battle.

    This isn't stated outright but this description alludes to the Warrior being the epitome of the Tank.

    Paladin: Once a Cleric, the Paladin has a call transcending the customs of the Cleric Order. Led by her convictions, she sets off to carry out her own righteous judgment.

    The Paladin was a Cleric FIRST. Not a Warrior, but a Cleric. This person decided to train as a Warrior would, but is still first and foremost a Cleric. Not exactly the model Tank.

    Dire Lord: Legends speak of Dire Lords capable of mastering the crippling power of fear, with some able to manipulate the ‘essence’ of living things--even their very blood.

    Again, this class is described in a way that makes it clear that it is caster based FIRST. Then is a Tank second. Making the class slightly less of a tank than the warrior. This is again assuming that the Dire Lord IS a tank like the EQ SK and such, but I think it is safe to assume this.

    If we read between the lines, taking into consideration that this is the setup that Brad and co. have used in the past, then I think it is safe to assume how the classes will stack up.


    This post was edited by kellindil at August 1, 2017 5:14 AM PDT
    • 380 posts
    August 1, 2017 5:15 AM PDT

    This IS all speculation of course, but I think it is fairly safe speculation.

    • 954 posts
    August 1, 2017 10:14 AM PDT

    I don't think I have read them say anything about "pure" being THE best, but I'm just saying THE best will be entirely dependent on the content being tackled. 

     

    Kilsin said:

    Warrior may have the best mitigation/single target aggro, Dire Lord may be superior in evasion/multi-target aggro, all tanks will be best at tanking and able to do their jobs properly within their archetype but each will have pros and cons just like all other classes and therefore, will be better against some mobs and worse against others. They will still be able to tank everything, though. It is just getting that balance right, but we will not alienate the Dire Lord, for example, and make the Warrior the supreme tank, otherwise what's the point in even bothering to create the Dire Lord? ;)

    • 380 posts
    August 1, 2017 11:00 AM PDT

    Iksar said:

    I don't think I have read them say anything about "pure" being THE best, but I'm just saying THE best will be entirely dependent on the content being tackled. 

     

    Kilsin said:

    Warrior may have the best mitigation/single target aggro, Dire Lord may be superior in evasion/multi-target aggro, all tanks will be best at tanking and able to do their jobs properly within their archetype but each will have pros and cons just like all other classes and therefore, will be better against some mobs and worse against others. They will still be able to tank everything, though. It is just getting that balance right, but we will not alienate the Dire Lord, for example, and make the Warrior the supreme tank, otherwise what's the point in even bothering to create the Dire Lord? ;)

    Right, each will have pros and cons. The Warrior con being that he gives up utility for a more focused role. The same can be said about the EQ Warrior. In groups, especially early on, the Warrior is **** for snap aggro and multi target aggro. However the Warrior is unmatched in the tools they get later on for Tanking (ie Soaking up Damage). The Paladin and SK were MUCH better at Snap aggro and in group content this was a huge help, but later in life they were not nearly as good as the Warrior at Tanking (Soaking up Damage).

    The Warrior is a PURE tank, where as the Paladin and Dire Lord SO FAR sound as if they will be Hybrid Tanks. As to Kilsin's comment, If the Warrior, Paladin, and Dire Lord are completely interchangable in their tanking ability (Ability to soak up damage) then why would anyone ever play a Warrior? They have no ultility. They would be a sub par class compared to the Paladin and Dire Lord.

    All three classes will be viable, some will be more so in some situations than others, but I still believe they will have the Warrior be the primire tank (Tank meaning their ability to take damage.) Tanking =/= Aggro abilities. Any class can build Aggro. Each of these classes will have tools to maintain aggro as a Tank. Their ability to absorb, mitigate, or evade damage WILL vary by class with the Warrior being slightly more superior IN GENERAL. Mark my words.

    Like I said, if the Warrior isn't more of a Tank than the other two, why have a Warrior at all?

    • 954 posts
    August 1, 2017 3:53 PM PDT

    Having no utility is a total assumption though. 

     

    "The Warrior seemingly defies limits of physical strength, ability and resilience. However, not content with fortitude alone, he also refines his mind, becoming a master strategist in battle." 

     

    Sounds to me that based on his being a master strategist he could have short term group buffs via shouts/commands/rallying cries or be full of interrupts, stuns, snares, disarms, and/or slows. They may not be "magical" in nature but they don't have to be. Or maybe warrior doesn't have much utility to speak of but instead boasts noticeably more damage than his tank counterparts based on his limit defying physical strength, making him a hybrid as well: A hybrid of Tank/DPS instead of the just as possible Tank/CC/Debuffs of Dire Lord or Tank/Heal/Buffing of Paladin. 

     

    All classes seemingly will have secondary roles attached to them and I don't believe tanks will be any different. Same as Rogue is DPS/CC with whatever else thrown in, Shaman is healer/debuffing/stat buffing, and Monk is DPS/Off-tank/Short term CC. So I wouldn't imagine warrior will be soley tank focused or even slightly more superior than the others aside from being slightly better in SOME aspects. 

     

    Why have the warrior? Because it's a third flavor of tanking. 

    • 380 posts
    August 1, 2017 4:47 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    Having no utility is a total assumption though. 

     

    "The Warrior seemingly defies limits of physical strength, ability and resilience. However, not content with fortitude alone, he also refines his mind, becoming a master strategist in battle." 

     

    Sounds to me that based on his being a master strategist he could have short term group buffs via shouts/commands/rallying cries or be full of interrupts, stuns, snares, disarms, and/or slows. They may not be "magical" in nature but they don't have to be. Or maybe warrior doesn't have much utility to speak of but instead boasts noticeably more damage than his tank counterparts based on his limit defying physical strength, making him a hybrid as well: A hybrid of Tank/DPS instead of the just as possible Tank/CC/Debuffs of Dire Lord or Tank/Heal/Buffing of Paladin. 

     

    All classes seemingly will have secondary roles attached to them and I don't believe tanks will be any different. Same as Rogue is DPS/CC with whatever else thrown in, Shaman is healer/debuffing/stat buffing, and Monk is DPS/Off-tank/Short term CC. So I wouldn't imagine warrior will be soley tank focused or even slightly more superior than the others aside from being slightly better in SOME aspects. 

     

    Why have the warrior? Because it's a third flavor of tanking. 

    Yes, this is all assumption but.... The Warrior will not be a Hybrid. VR seems to be building the classes in a very classic way. I will bet quite a bit on the Warrior being a Pure Tank class, DW weapons, Focused on Damage absorbtion/mitigation with almost no utility to speak of.

    • 1522 posts
    September 6, 2017 6:57 AM PDT

    As someone who has played a warrior as my main in just about every MMO I have ever played, I can say with confidence that I hope warriors in Pantheon stay true to their roots and play out as classically as possible.  The one difference I would ask for is taking a look at DND's "Martial Warrior"  --  it fits really nicely with the description of the class, even if it ends up being a specialization choice.  It doesen't have to be called that of course but as long as they play out similarly, I think that would be a great new "flavor" for warrior mains to sink their teeth into.

    • 17 posts
    October 2, 2017 7:22 AM PDT

    Everything that I have heard the devs say on this topic suggests that no particular class will be left out of the equation, provided that other classes can step up to fill in the gaps. Which, of course, ties in well with their social, classical minded philosophy. I think warriors will be awesome when played well, and excellent end game tanks. Hybrids with some more group utility and so forth. No one will be completely left out in the cold, and the players themselves will likely play the more important part in determining the true quality of the tank!