Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Progeny Titles

    • 258 posts
    July 29, 2017 11:16 PM PDT


    (Update to this has been posted below in a reply. I will come back and update this soon! Don't have time at the moment.)

    I know titles have been discussed a little bit in other threads, but I didn't find anything regarding progeny titles, so I thought I would start a new thread and see what people think.

    For the record, I am a firm believer that titles should be very rare. I had a friend in EQ classic who won the title "of Qeynos" and got a special shield for winning a GM event. It was a pretty simple title, but man back in those days a title in EQ really meant something! And this title he got on like... a level 9 bard. It was a "Solve the riddle and find the GM" event. The title wasn't anything special, but I was crazy envious. And too many titles, like "the Cat's Meow" or whatever stupid thing, really breaks immersion for me. I want to be so immersed that when I'm blinded in game I close my eyes IRL.

    That being said, I think it would be really cool to add titles to the progeny system, and may further encourage players to make use of the progeny system. I imagine that there will be a limit on how many times you can progeny, at least early in the game, so for now let's just say you can only make use of the progeny system twice with one character.

    So you've hit max level, you've gotten your raid gear, you're bored with crafting, and you don't really want to play an alt (or you want to take a long break from your alt). Well, progeny time! Get those extra stats before the coming expansion! Bam... you pull the trigger on it and you're back at level 1. Upon reaching max level again, Kaen Blackheart becomes Lord Kaen Blackheart (YES, I think you should keep your last name if you progeny). You're ready AGAIN to progeny (if anyone is crazy enough to do this twice)... Lord Kaen Blackheart becomes... I don't know... something cooler. High Lord Kaen Blackheart. Or Lord Prince Kaen Blackheart. You get the point.

    **UPDATE**

    The progeny titles should come at max level, meaning after you progeny and once again attain max level... THEN you get the title.
    Instead of inevitably (eventually) having a bunch of the same titles running around, people get to choose from a list of titles once they max out their first progeny.

    For example:

    First Progeny        Second Progeny
    Prince                  High Prince
    Lord                     High Lord
    Duke                   Arch Duke
    Master                 Grandmaster

    Those are the ones I kinda came up with without thinking about it too much, but I think it would be really awesome to have a pretty hefty list of things to choose from. This would keep the titles fairly diverse, and handing them out only when people reached max level on their progeny would really mean something.


    (Also, for the record, I think people should be able to keep their gear (including raid gear) when using the progeny system but maybe their stats have a stat cap. (I imagine it would be kinda lame to have to get raid gear on the same character twice, but I trust the devs to come up with a good solution for this.)


    This post was edited by Kaen at July 30, 2017 10:21 AM PDT
    • 18 posts
    July 30, 2017 7:23 AM PDT

    Just wanted to chime in and say that I love the idea of rare titles. If players become known for something (being the first one to obtain an item or kill a boss), a title for their accomplishment would certainly add to the world/server community. I'm not so sure if I'm a fan of the idea of starting from level 1 again for a title.

    • 258 posts
    July 30, 2017 7:38 AM PDT

    EvilPigBoss said:

    Just wanted to chime in and say that I love the idea of rare titles. If players become known for something (being the first one to obtain an item or kill a boss), a title for their accomplishment would certainly add to the world/server community. I'm not so sure if I'm a fan of the idea of starting from level 1 again for a title.



    I agree! I was actually just coming back to this thread to update it.

    I've been thinking about it, and the progeny titles should come at max level, meaning after you progeny and once again attain max level... THEN you get the title. But wait, there's more!

    Instead of inevitably (eventually) having a bunch of the same titles running around, people get to choose from a list of titles once they max out their first progeny.

    For example:

    First Progeny        Second Progeny
    Prince                  High Prince
    Lord                     High Lord
    Duke                   Arch Duke
    Master                 Grandmaster

    Those are the ones I kinda came up with without thinking about it too much, but I think it would be really awesome to have a pretty hefty list of things to choose from. This would keep the titles fairly diverse, and handing them out only when people reached max level on their progeny would really mean something.

    • 3852 posts
    July 30, 2017 8:30 AM PDT

    First character - Dorotea the Dauntless. Second character - Dorotea Daughter of the Suicide. Third Character - Dorotea of the Clan of the Self-murdering.

    I like the idea of a progeny system quite a bit but I don't see the need for the original character to die for it. Why not just let later characters learn and benefit from the experience of the old seasoned matriarch but if you want to roll out the old biddy with her inferior non-progenized abilities you can.

    This is off-topic a bit though the thread *has* veered to discussion of the progeny system. On the original topic I agree that titles should be uncommon and awarded for accomplishment.

    I've been playing LOTRO again while waiting for Pantheon - not a bad choice for me since it takes quite a while to get a character to level cap. That game has an utterly inane assemblage of impressive sounding but totally meaningless titles - reinforcing my agreement with the OP.


    This post was edited by dorotea at July 30, 2017 8:34 AM PDT
    • 1399 posts
    July 30, 2017 10:05 AM PDT

    I would think titles such as Sir and Lord be reserved for things much more rare. For Pogeny I would expect simply II and III etc.

     

    • 258 posts
    July 30, 2017 10:10 AM PDT

    dorotea said:

    First character - Dorotea the Dauntless. Second character - Dorotea Daughter of the Suicide. Third Character - Dorotea of the Clan of the Self-murdering.

    I like the idea of a progeny system quite a bit but I don't see the need for the original character to die for it.



    I agree with this, and I'm sure there are others who would, too, but I do like the idea of the system. I think it adds another interesting option once maxed. And it's not so beneficial or game-changing that min/maxers should freak out about it upon hitting max level, though I imagine some will (no offense meant to those people lol). But it's really about perception... The name of the system may make it seem like you're not playing your original character, and that perhaps your original character was "killed off", but you can always just take it to mean what you want. I would (and will) just choose to think my character is just continuing to advance (aka I wouldn't consider my character to be anything but the same character I had been playing). I mean, everyone dies countless times in this game on every character. Respawning or being resurrected doesn't mean you didn't "die" but our perception is that our character just continues to exist despite this fact.

    I don't know exactly what their plans are for the system, but I wonder if they would consider other options like changing the name of the system so that there is no assumption that your original character is six feet under or that your new character is the "child" of your previous character. I would be curious to see a poll on this, whether people would prefer that their original character is "continued" via the progeny system, just with a level reset, or the character is in fact the child of the original character.

    Regardless, I think the system is a very cool idea, especially if you want to play with your friends who are just starting but you don't want to play a different class. I'll live with whatever they decide--no pun intended. :P

    • 258 posts
    July 30, 2017 10:15 AM PDT

    Zorkon said:

    I would think titles such as Sir and Lord be reserved for things much more rare. For Pogeny I would expect simply II and III etc.

     



    I know what you mean, and I thought about that too, but if the xp rate and everything is going to be the way I think it will, leveling the same character to max level--even once--is a pretty tremendous feat. I highly doubt that most people will do this. A lot of people may rather just level up a different character/class.

    It kinda depends what they offer with the system. If it's just a few points, and no titles or anything else, I don't see a lot of people except min/maxers doing this because it will take a crazy amount of extra time for so little benefit. I mean, weigh that against have another maxed character of a different class... If given that choice I would probably rather just make an alt and have some fun playing a different class.

    Just my 2c

    • 125 posts
    July 30, 2017 3:21 PM PDT

    I know I will be in the massive minority when it comes to this but I have no use for titles. I let my actions speak for myself. Dont need a title over my head saying "look at me". If they do put them in the game I would hope there is an option to turn them off.

    I even dislike last names and have never used one in game.


    This post was edited by Aatu at July 30, 2017 3:21 PM PDT
    • 258 posts
    July 30, 2017 10:47 PM PDT

    Aatu said:

    I know I will be in the massive minority when it comes to this but I have no use for titles. I let my actions speak for myself. Dont need a title over my head saying "look at me". If they do put them in the game I would hope there is an option to turn them off.

    I even dislike last names and have never used one in game.



    I don't think it's going to be a matter of whether titles will be in the game or not. Rather, it will be to what degree. It is my hope that titles will be handed out very sparingly, as in it may be 5 months or more into the game before a single person has one. In many modern MMOs people have 5 - 15 titles by level 20.

    I doubt you will be able to turn them off, though I'm sure players will be able to toggle their own titles off and on. However, there may be an option to turn off all PC names, a function that may be useful for some during raids, or people who don't want to see last names or titles. :P

    • 3852 posts
    July 31, 2017 7:03 AM PDT

    I've never used a last name either, and for that matter never chosen a title to show. 

    Just showing my first name is fine with me.

    • 1095 posts
    July 31, 2017 10:15 AM PDT

    Intresting idea

    • 542 posts
    July 31, 2017 10:45 AM PDT

    What would the players who stick to their character without using the progeny feature get?

    Elder patriarch
    big Alpha
    matriarch

    with extra resistance to certain climates etc?

    There should be more to it than titles for it to have any meaning at all I think
    Also have to be careful with overuse of such titles
    "great high savior prince of lords"

    What would be the use and the valuable message in such cases?


    This post was edited by Fluffy at July 31, 2017 10:52 AM PDT
    • 1303 posts
    July 31, 2017 12:42 PM PDT

    Fluffy said:

    What would the players who stick to their character without using the progeny feature get?

     

    Nothing. 

    If you reward people for doing nothing then rewards have no meaning. 

    • 626 posts
    July 31, 2017 1:56 PM PDT

    Zorkon said:

    I would think titles such as Sir and Lord be reserved for things much more rare. For Pogeny I would expect simply II and III etc.

     

     

    I agree with this. I would prefer it to be simple and clean as well. Save the better titles for completing epic quests or becoming a master crafter IMO.

    • 125 posts
    July 31, 2017 3:47 PM PDT

    That is what I meant Kaen. Just turnng my own off.

    • 2138 posts
    July 31, 2017 4:19 PM PDT

    Or how about the title is given to the Main character- along the lines of the grades of nobility- like in the Wiki link below.

    For instance the main would get title EMPEROR, and first progeny get the title King, and the down the line to Viscount as more progenies were made.the last getting Gentleman as the title.

    Nice table at the bottom.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_and_noble_ranks

     

    • 542 posts
    July 31, 2017 4:46 PM PDT

    Feyshtey said:

    Fluffy said:

    What would the players who stick to their character without using the progeny feature get?

     

    Nothing. 

    If you reward people for doing nothing then rewards have no meaning. 

    So sticking through thick and thin with a character is 'doing nothing' ?

    Ok

    By that logic we should only be rewarded when we get ourselves a new lover
    Gifts for people celebrating a platinum wedding anniversary? Why reward people for doing nothing :D

    Sticking with a character is a devotion that does deserve a reward

    • 1399 posts
    July 31, 2017 6:52 PM PDT

    Fluffy said:

    Feyshtey said:

    Fluffy said:

    What would the players who stick to their character without using the progeny feature get?

     

    Nothing. 

    If you reward people for doing nothing then rewards have no meaning. 

    So sticking through thick and thin with a character is 'doing nothing' ?

    Ok

    By that logic we should only be rewarded when we get ourselves a new lover
    Gifts for people celebrating a platinum wedding anniversary? Why reward people for doing nothing :D

    Sticking with a character is a devotion that does deserve a reward

    Well actually I think this thread is moving into the area of not knowing enough about Progeny again. My idea of Progeny is obviously different than yours. I see Progeny not as abandoning the char but taking it to the next level. Where WOW has 100 levels, Pantheon will have a secound or third generation level 50. To NOT Progeny is to abandon your character.

    My guess for how Progeny will work is at level 50 Wizard Zorkon will be able to Progeny and keep one skill.. let's say I choose to keep fireball. For my progeny I choose a Cleric. This level 1 Cleric "Zorkon II" now also has access to a level 1 fireball. Up to 50 I go building a Cleric that also has a Fireball spell. At 50 I choose a heal spell line (full heal, HoT, .. just one not the full arsenal) and I Progeny again. This time "Zorkon III" might be a Fireball flinging Healing Enchanter or Warrior.

    There was concern that this might be game breaking... but I don't think so.. one wouldent have the full ability of the previous class.. just one line (think WarWizard) and is it really any more game breaking than a level 100?

    • 399 posts
    July 31, 2017 7:10 PM PDT

    Yeah that's not going to happen Zorkon. I am pretty positive that one class will not (and imo should not) get abilities of another. Using  your logic, in a few years, when you can level one character from 1 to max in a day or two, one theoretically could make a seriously op character.

    I believe it is VRs intention for a progeny to have an advantage at ther lower levels based on the abilities of the parent. General abilities such as tradeskills, fishing, lock picking etc.  so instead of starting at level 1, that person could start at level 50 (/200) on a trade skill. Or have access to some keyed dungeon. Or have the ability to understands certain foreign languages.  Or not be kos to an otherwise kos race if the parent had worked on faction etc.

    • 1399 posts
    July 31, 2017 7:18 PM PDT

    Durp said:

    Yeah that's not going to happen Zorkon. I am pretty positive that one class will not (and imo should not) get abilities of another. Using  your logic, in a few years, when you can level one character from 1 to max in a day or two, one theoretically could make a seriously op character.

    I believe it is VRs intention for a progeny to have an advantage at ther lower levels based on the abilities of the parent. General abilities such as tradeskills, fishing, lock picking etc.  so instead of starting at level 1, that person could start at level 50 (/200) on a trade skill. Or have access to some keyed dungeon. Or have the ability to understands certain foreign languages.  Or not be kos to an otherwise kos race if the parent had worked on faction etc.

    Yea, your possably right. I just don't see that being enough to get people to Progeny, any more than a title. At least I wouldent. Well know more when there ready.


    This post was edited by Zorkon at July 31, 2017 7:19 PM PDT
    • 26 posts
    July 31, 2017 10:50 PM PDT

    Manouk said:

    Or how about the title is given to the Main character- along the lines of the grades of nobility- like in the Wiki link below.

    For instance the main would get title EMPEROR, and first progeny get the title King, and the down the line to Viscount as more progenies were made.the last getting Gentleman as the title.

    Nice table at the bottom.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_and_noble_ranks

     

    After the first year you'd have a thousand guys, per shard, running around with the title Emperor and eventually Gentleman, which should be a common title, will be the rarest.

     

    Just no.

    • 763 posts
    August 1, 2017 12:25 AM PDT

    Splitting up Progeny Abilities and Titles :

    For a discussion on possible progeny 'Abilities' or mechanics: can I suggest looking here -

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2870/progeny-system

    While for Titles ...

    From my perspective I consider 2 options (since the progeny system has not be fully revealed) to cover the main possibilities. Either you need to 'retire' or 'kill off' your character to make a progeny, or you merely create a new alt as a progeny (presumably having met some needed criteria, eg minimum level 25 etc)

    Pantheon may well have one or both of these options: it is rather dependent on the rationale for progeny in the first place.

    Option #1 titles:

    Since these would naturally stem from a previous character:

    I would perhaps envisage these to be in the 'Wulfgar, son of Magnus', 'Wulfgar Magnusson' or 'Wulfgar II' style.

    Option #2 titles:

    I imagine more of a Roman 'familias' feel to this form of progeny. Here, Alts would be from the same family (whether related or adopted) and would have some reputation from the rest of family transferred about the members. Thus, it would be about adding glory to the 'family' and not just about the individual family member's deeds. Thus, great things done will relflect well on the family name as well as the individual - i.e. the others (of the family) could gain a smidge of reflected glory.

    Thus 'Wolfgar, Patriarch of House Whiteclaw', 'Arriene, Scion of House Whiteclaw' and for low level Alts 'Derek Whiteclaw'

    Evoras, may have to think of a Family name...

    • 542 posts
    August 1, 2017 4:18 AM PDT

    Zorkon said:

    To NOT Progeny is to abandon your character.

    We indeed know little about the progeny system at this point,but not sure I like the idea that it would be obligatory to progeny a character to gain a needed edge
    "You need a heal and cc at least so first progeny your character as a cleric and enchanter ,then get back to us" If other players would say that i'd never come back :D but you know what people are like sometimes :D
    I'm all for a progeny system,as long as it remains a choice.
    If to not progeny means we *abandon* our character,it would mean that we would be not allowed to be contented with the character we have.

     


    This post was edited by Fluffy at August 1, 2017 4:19 AM PDT
    • 278 posts
    August 1, 2017 4:23 AM PDT

    Maybe just add The 2nd , The 3rd , The 4th ... and in diffrent collors or fontstyle for each prognency step with option to not show, simple and relativly discret.


    This post was edited by Grizzly at August 1, 2017 4:24 AM PDT
    • 1303 posts
    August 1, 2017 8:36 AM PDT

    Fluffy said:

    Feyshtey said:

    Fluffy said:

    What would the players who stick to their character without using the progeny feature get?

     

    Nothing. 

    If you reward people for doing nothing then rewards have no meaning. 

    So sticking through thick and thin with a character is 'doing nothing' ?

    Ok

    By that logic we should only be rewarded when we get ourselves a new lover
    Gifts for people celebrating a platinum wedding anniversary? Why reward people for doing nothing :D

    Sticking with a character is a devotion that does deserve a reward

    If you are content sitting on the couch every night watching sitcoms with your lover then isnt that its own reward? 

    If you choose to celebrate someone who demonstrates a love for thier current status without desire to change, isnt that also its own reward? 

    If instead you are disgruntled because Joe and Jim, who've been together for 10 years get to go on vacations together, and take dance lessons together, and choose to show their dedication to one another in a myriad of other ways, and all you do is sit on the couch and watch stupid sitcoms, then why should anyone attempt to make you feel like what you have is just as good as what Jim and Joe have?