Liav said:Only on the internet can we go from gear progression in MMOs to suggesting women cover their tits in a single post.
The irony of your accusation that college students "get distracted, not paying attention to what really matters" while you can barely manage to stay on topic in a single paragraph is pretty hilarious.
I don't even know why this upsets me so much but damn.
It appears to me because you are set in your ways wanting Pantheon to be the "Rush to max level Barbie Doll dress up" that so many other games already are, and Fluffy is thinking outside the box and suggestin/looking at alternatives. I'm quite interested in what Fluffy suggesting as I could care less about "BIS" gear and prefer the journey over the race.
(Ya got some great ideas here Fluff, But are you a girl or a guy?)
Zorkon said:Liav said:Only on the internet can we go from gear progression in MMOs to suggesting women cover their tits in a single post.
The irony of your accusation that college students "get distracted, not paying attention to what really matters" while you can barely manage to stay on topic in a single paragraph is pretty hilarious.
I don't even know why this upsets me so much but damn.
It appears to me because you are set in your ways wanting Pantheon to be the "Rush to max level Barbie Doll dress up" that so many other games already are, and Fluffy is thinking outside the box and suggestin/looking at alternatives. I'm quite interested in what Fluffy suggesting as I could care less about "BIS" gear and prefer the journey over the race.
(Ya got some great ideas here Fluff, But are you a girl or a guy?)
Zorkon said:It appears to me because you are set in your ways wanting Pantheon to be the "Rush to max level Barbie Doll dress up" that so many other games already are
I'm honestly impressed that you've come to this conclusion. It has to be an utter failure of comprehension.
You said it yourself. Those games are already there. If I wanted to play them, I wouldn't be posting on this forum.
Liav said:Zorkon said:It appears to me because you are set in your ways wanting Pantheon to be the "Rush to max level Barbie Doll dress up" that so many other games already are
I'm honestly impressed that you've come to this conclusion. It has to be an utter failure of comprehension.
You said it yourself. Those games are already there. If I wanted to play them, I wouldn't be posting on this forum.
I'm not against changing what's already been done before as well. I like to argue against tradition more often than not. I just like to see good reasoning exercised in those cases.
For instance, I strongly dislike modern itemization in MMOs because items are no longer unique. When there is a direct statistical upgrade to every item you have every 6 months, items lose their identity. Completely understandable.
However, instancing and rapid progression necessitates rapid development, and rapid development leads to these types of itemization models. It is in no way a criticism of gear progression, instead it's more of a systemic issue. I'm sure you acknowledge this, but that's the point I've been driving at.
EQN was way too ambitious for its time. That game was extremely confused with regards to scope and it made for perpetual development hell.
Liav said:However, instancing and rapid progression necessitates rapid development, and rapid development leads to these types of itemization models. It is in no way a criticism of gear progression, instead it's more of a systemic issue. I'm sure you acknowledge this, but that's the point I've been driving at.
EQN was way too ambitious for its time. That game was extremely confused with regards to scope and it made for perpetual development hell.
it a was a simile Liav:
Players preoccuppied with gear and not paying attention to the current events and the players that surround them/
Some students obsessed with tits and desire unable to focus and commit to their studies,neglecting their learning materials
Both can be bad distractions if accentuated too much LOL
Don't be upset
You should see some cover art from some of the Manga MMOs,you could argue that tits are also at the core of MMOs
Maybe they should grow as you progress?Physical alterations as progression <33
That might be over-sexualization ,ideal for some .Dealbreaker for others.So dealbreaker?Ideal?
Dragonfist,like you know much about my ideals and what i want
You always speak for me and act like if you know me
At least you can see that you don't know the details and you either misconstruct a lot of what I say or just don't comprehend it.
What the "target domographic" of the game wants;What do they want ? Gnome pie and tits it seems.
Maybe a combination of both? There is more to it for sure ;lush environments and music <333
Thank you Zorkon,Dark Myr which is combination of both girl and guy reshapen and tortured
Many games are indeed "rush to endgame in Barbie doll dress up"
And when the Barbie is dressed they toss it aside and want a new one.So thats why they are here fighting for the change to dress up new Barbie.
Fluffy said:Dragonfist,like you know much about my ideals and what i want
You always speak for me and act like if you know me
At least you can see that you don't know the details and you either misconstruct a lot of what I say or just don't comprehend it.
What the "target domographic" of the game wants;What do they want ? Gnome pie and tits it seems.
Maybe a combination of both? There is more to it for sure ;lush environments and music <333
That might be the biggest dealbreaker
yet another mmo that misses the point that it should be a multiplayer instead of that single player pimp yo Barbie to endgame stuff
But that won't be the case here luckily <3
Dragonfist, I am free to mention gear progression would be a dealbreaker to me if wrongfully implemented .As I mentioned it is the thing i'm most concerned about and it COULD be the biggest dealbreaker because it would just all go to waste when players are preoccupied with that again instead of what the game has to offer. To toss it all aside when done with the dress up game.
Liav said:For instance, I strongly dislike modern itemization in MMOs because items are no longer unique. When there is a direct statistical upgrade to every item you have every 6 months, items lose their identity. Completely understandable.
However, instancing and rapid progression necessitates rapid development, and rapid development leads to these types of itemization models. It is in no way a criticism of gear progression, instead it's more of a systemic issue. I'm sure you acknowledge this, but that's the point I've been driving at.
I think rapid gearing by means of need before greed accelerates the issue as well. In EQ classic, at least on my server, NBG didn't exist (in PUGs) save for no-drop items. You could spend minutes to days to a week+ trying to camp a single upgrade for your character, often seeing the item drop many times and just losing the roll to the party. These days everyone expects to get exactly what they want when it happens to drop. Something that could take days or more of effort to obtain is now averaging hours in a group before you are off to fill the next item slot; instead of getting geared over the course of months it now takes a month or less, so the best way to keep players going when maxed is to keep the gear treadmill running for those quick short bursts of feel good.
Fluffy said:Dragonfist, I am free to mention gear progression would be a dealbreaker to me if wrongfully implemented .As I mentioned it is the thing i'm most concerned about and it COULD be the biggest dealbreaker because it would just all go to waste when players are preoccupied with that again instead of what the game has to offer. To toss it all aside when done with the dress up game.
This is your only friendly reminder to remain on topic and refrain from personal attacks. It is ok to have a different opinion and still walk away from a conversation.
I have mentioned several times how I dislike negative topics like this as they bring nothing to the table, they don't help development and they only cause a negative bias within the community which spreads to other threads, so in future, these types of negative threads will be removed without warning, these official forums are our development forums, our place of business and a space for our community to grow and threads like this hinder that growth.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negativity_bias
The negativity bias,[1] also known as the negativity effect, refers to the notion that, even when of equal intensity, things of a more negative nature (e.g. unpleasant thoughts, emotions, or social interactions; harmful/traumatic events) have a greater effect on one's psychological state and processes than do neutral or positive things
Please respect the development forums, the guidelines, the team and the community when participating on this platform to save any further moderation or action taken as it is the last thing I want to have to add to my busy list of things to do!
Thank you Kilsin.
Some of my ideals are to have challenging encounters. I like the group centered content. It is strange, because I liked to solo in old EQ when my friends weren't on-line. And it bugged me then that after a certain level, a white con didn't mean" evenly balanced for a solo player anymore. But after play game after game where I got to max level in a month or so (of casual "a few hours a week" schedule, not like the old days) and then finding nothing worth doing, I've come to respect it.
And that leads to my main game-breaker. I do not want a fast, pulled along my nose trip to max level, only to find that my only via activity that results in actual progression is to repeat a bunch of on-rails, instanced dungeons.
Give me alternate advancement. Not just with AA points, though I want those. I liked EQ1's version of that the most, though I'd start it earlier and some of the details I'd change, but over all the system worked and resulted in me almost always having something to work on even at max level and great gear. But don't limit it to that. Perhaps even have a couple of difference layers of AAs. EQ1 later made Fellowships which were a sort of mini guild of friends that could group together. I think the max was 9 players in a fellowship (wonder where that came from) and groups were 6. This resulted in people getting together as a group even if not all members were on-line. So, one could have AAs earned by the fellowship that gave them small bonuses when they were together, etc.
Deal breakers would be typical watered down MMO designs of the last decade or so. GPS maps, quest based design with flashy golden floating icons, incredibly easy combat, loot piñata rewards throughout, etc. Not to be undone by just a carbon copy of EQ>Pre-WoW style games mind you... standing in one spot pulling in the same respawns for hours on end isnt fun for me... at all, never was... hell, if i had to choose id still prefer Warcraft, though id probably just give up on finding a good MMO after this game.
As for what ideals Id like ... im not sure. Like I said before a simple "go back to basics" approach probably wont do it for me. Not for long anyway. Ideally, as in perfect world with unlimited resources id like a game with Breath of the Wilds scale, freedom, and incredible amount of creative things you can do... Souls games level of challenge and loot/gearing designs and maybe LotRO's (pre-Mirkwood) sense of adventure and lore. That is, in a group centric (aka massively multiplayer) philosophy. Obviously this is probably a decade or two away (if ever) but well... theyre the devs. It may not be possible to do an MMORPG as such just yet but it falls to them to capture that sense of freedom and creativity in their game with what they have available.
Im liking what ive read/heard/seen so far which is why I pledged. Their focus on grouping, exploration and subtle ways of having the player figure things out through acclimation and perception (engaging the world) is at the very least a step in the right direction. So far so good. Of course this is all just somewhat vague promises with very few examples having been shown up to now. Describing how awesome a feature is and actually implementing it in an engaging and interesting way thatll last is another.
Major game breaker for me is free to play. I cannot stand it. The only free to play game I play is Path of Exile and that is because the shop doesn't effect the game at all other than stash tabs. There is a way around that by creating mules if you do not want to get any extra ones. I know the devs need a source of income to keep development going and I'd much rather it be through a subscription cost. If the game is good, people will hear about it and subscribe. I feel most cash shops that have items other than cosmetic ones are just there to keep mediocre flawed games going way longer than they should.
Game maker, I like gear and a lot of gear slots so characters are different and look different. Especially a cloak/cape slot. I do think that the way gear works in ARPGs has seeped into MMORPGs, but that doesn't really bother me all that much. I like that Pantheon has a huge focus on team play and social aspects, as that sort of counters it. Being able to just LFG and run through a dungeon without saying a word other than when flaming some poor new adventurer for not knowing the encounter has really taken a toll on this genre. If the encounters sort of force you to slow down and communicate, IMHO it's just better for everyone in the long run.
Honestly though, Im willing to give almost any game I have interest in a chance even if doesn't immeadiately line up with what I think I want. I like to give developers a chance to provide me with something that I maybe didn't know I wanted until I have it.
Zazzaro said:Major game breaker for me is free to play. I cannot stand it.
Oh right, yeah, cant believe I missed this one ... no F2P or to that extent item shops. Have 0 tolerance policy for those.
Got that VR!? Not only will you take my comparatively overpriced monthly sub, you will give me every single piece of content your lethargic artists can create and like it!
Oh, yeah. I generally agree with the Free-To-Play stuff. Free-To-Play isn't inherently bad, but it has a tendency to have a cash shop that becomes a cash grab and a play to win. However, I don't mind an item shop with some cosmetic items and maybe xp potions -- as long as all items are also available via gameplay. Anything other than that and it is gets out of hand.
An other reason to not have Free to Play is chat spammers. Ban a spammer and in free to play they just create another account. If there is going to be a free to try period, keep the free trial accounts in a sandbox as far as chat is concerned. It won't end all spamming but it makes it much more managable. If the spammers need to buy the game and re-sub with a new credit card everytime they are banned it becomes less profitable to do so.
DragonFist said:Oh, yeah. I generally agree with the Free-To-Play stuff. Free-To-Play isn't inherently bad, but it has a tendency to have a cash shop that becomes a cash grab and a play to win. However, I don't mind an item shop with some cosmetic items and maybe xp potions -- as long as all items are also available via gameplay. Anything other than that and it is gets out of hand.
An other reason to not have Free to Play is chat spammers. Ban a spammer and in free to play they just create another account. If there is going to be a free to try period, keep the free trial accounts in a sandbox as far as chat is concerned. It won't end all spamming but it makes it much more managable. If the spammers need to buy the game and re-sub with a new credit card everytime they are banned it becomes less profitable to do so.
Pretty much agree with everything here. I could get behind a shop that only sells cosmetics, or maybe house furniture - anything that doesn't effect game play in the slightest. Although, it worries me that even that is a slippery slope. But maybe I'm just being a pessimistic peter.
Tralyan said:Pretty much agree with everything here. I could get behind a shop that only sells cosmetics, or maybe house furniture - anything that doesn't effect game play in the slightest. Although, it worries me that even that is a slippery slope. But maybe I'm just being a pessimistic peter.
The slippery slope is what I don't like. MMOs need constant patches, new content, expansions and that stuff obviously costs money And requires a continuous cash flow so it's quality and timely. If the game is free to play with a cash shop, they pretty much have to have pay to win stuff in there. Cosmetics will only go so far. I'd much rather a subscription cost and a cosmetic cash shop if a dev company feels sub fees and box sales aren't making them enough money. But, too many times I've seen it be xp potions, then maybe able to buy game currency, then a mount that is a little faster, a potion that picks up a little bit more crafting resources, more bag space etc etc.
Its also a little bit of a barrier to keep spammers and other rift raft out of the game. I think a free trial works better because it's good to let people on the fence try out the game, it's not so good when the flood gates are just opened. It is difficult because it's a fine line developers have to walk to not only be profitable, but also have money to develop further content.
Zazzaro said:Tralyan said:Pretty much agree with everything here. I could get behind a shop that only sells cosmetics, or maybe house furniture - anything that doesn't effect game play in the slightest. Although, it worries me that even that is a slippery slope. But maybe I'm just being a pessimistic peter.
The slippery slope is what I don't like. MMOs need constant patches, new content, expansions and that stuff obviously costs money And requires a continuous cash flow so it's quality and timely. If the game is free to play with a cash shop, they pretty much have to have pay to win stuff in there. Cosmetics will only go so far. I'd much rather a subscription cost and a cosmetic cash shop if a dev company feels sub fees and box sales aren't making them enough money. But, too many times I've seen it be xp potions, then maybe able to buy game currency, then a mount that is a little faster, a potion that picks up a little bit more crafting resources, more bag space etc etc.
Its also a little bit of a barrier to keep spammers and other rift raft out of the game. I think a free trial works better because it's good to let people on the fence try out the game, it's not so good when the flood gates are just opened. It is difficult because it's a fine line developers have to walk to not only be profitable, but also have money to develop further content.
Oh, no, I'm not advocating free to play with a cash shop. I'm talking about subscrption costs and box costs with the addition of a possible cash shop that only deals in cosmetic riff-raff, just as a way for VR to generate EXTRA bling, not as their sole bling generator.
Tralyan said:Oh, no, I'm not advocating free to play with a cash shop. I'm talking about subscrption costs and box costs with the addition of a possible cash shop that only deals in cosmetic riff-raff, just as a way for VR to generate EXTRA bling, not as their sole bling generator.
Of course, there would need to be an approval process so that no one creates penis chairs or spaceship interiors (unless that fits some Terminus art style.)
Things like store signs and "Keep Out - Beware of Dragon." Or Guild symbols, etc.