Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

What are your ideals and game-breakers?

    • 2130 posts
    August 1, 2017 7:00 AM PDT

    kellindil said:

    I do not want to see item vending machines.

    There is a huge difference between this exaggeration and having some gear progression pre-max level.

    kellindil said:

    I want power to come from the character progression, not from items. Gear should be entirely secondary. I do not want to see a game where every class's power is directly determined by their gear alone.

    I'm not sure what this means. A naked level 50 Wizard will still nuke harder than a geared level 23 Wizard. Every MMO in existence without normalization is like that, and those with normalization are very few. For instance, ESO normalized all of their content to level 50/CP160 so a level 10 can hit as hard as a 50 with bad gear. Pantheon doesn't have any such normalization so this is a non-issue.

    kellindil said:

    I want to see items as rare as possible, so that they are truely memorable and that character strength is determined more by character level and Progeny stage, and what other Alt Advancement systems they use, not by gear.

    As rare as possible could be one in a million. EQ had some of the most memorable items in any game, yet that isn't good enough? I'm not sure what you're asking for. You want some +1 Dex gloves that drop from a level 13 mob to have a one in a million chance of dropping? No thanks.

    • 68 posts
    August 1, 2017 7:20 AM PDT

    Death penalty, fine. Exp loss, sure, gear quality degredatuon, I'm down, he'll, let's put those smith's twerk. But if you think having to corpse run half a continent away was "the good ole days" you need to put the pipe down and slowly back away. The late stage of eq wasn't bad, where zones had graveyards and your corpse would wind up there, that was liveable, but therest only a hand full of crackpots that think losing your corpse and therefore all your hard earned gear at the bottom of some god forsaken pit is an improvement. Most players I know, and we're on EQ progression servers as we speak, are laughing at patheon instead of taking it seriously because old school runs are even coming up in conversation as possible thing. Seriously, don't ruin what is likely a truer spiritual successor EQ than EQ Next was ever going to be over actaul corpse runs. (Guess you could make a legitimate case that I see this as a deal breaker...)

    I should specify; corpse runs were your gear stays on your corpse is what I'm bitching about


    This post was edited by VR-Mod1 at August 1, 2017 4:44 PM PDT
    • 422 posts
    August 1, 2017 7:31 AM PDT

    gear progression

    This is my issue. I do not want to see GEAR progression. Period. I hate it. Character power should not be based on gear progression. Gear should provide MINOR boosts to character power. I hate the idea of a character being only as good as their gear, which equates to a player only being as powerful as they are lucky or if they are in the right cliche or guild.

    I want character power and progression to be 98% level/progeny/alt advancement and the rest gear.

     

    I'm not sure what this means. A naked level 50 Wizard will still nuke harder than a geared level 23 Wizard. Every MMO in existence without normalization is like that, and those with normalization are very few. For instance, ESO normalized all of their content to level 50/CP160 so a level 10 can hit as hard as a 50 with bad gear. Pantheon doesn't have any such normalization so this is a non-issue.

    Right, and a geared lvl 50 Wizard will be signifcantly more powerful than a naked lvl 50 Wizard. By orders of magnatude. I want to see those two Wizards almost equal assuming they are the same lvl, stage i n progeny (assuming progeny does anything), alt advanceent stage, and character age (time spent in the world killing and thus potentially colelcting gear). Where gear only gives a MINOR boost, because that gear is RARE.

    As rare as possible could be one in a million. EQ had some of the most memorable items in any game, yet that isn't good enough? I'm not sure what you're asking for. You want some +1 Dex gloves that drop from a level 13 mob to have a one in a million chance of dropping? No thanks.

    No.

    What I want to see is that there is only maybe 2-3 items from lvl 1-max for gloves, PERIOD. across ALL classes. Everything else is basically stat-less. Maybe one item drops from a lvl 13 and has +3int. Another drops for a lvl 36 and has +6str and another drops from a lvl 50 (assume this is max lvl for arguement's sake) and has +9 Dex.

    Then we have a helm that drops off a lvl 15 with +4 dex, one from a lvl 34 with +6 int, and another from a lvl 50 with +10 str

    Etc, Etc... Since those +3 int gloves are almost the ONLY item for a pure caster IN THE GAME, it is RARE to have a stat item in that slot. On top of that the gear drop rate should be fairly low. This way while lvling you will not be decked out. And once you hit max, those items you got at lvl 15 will still be powerful and useful due to gear being rare. Then at max level you might upgrade 1-2 pieces from raids over the next 6 months.

    Gear shouldn't mean as much in regards to overall power because it is rare, hopefully making it so that power is more about how much alt advancement has been done through whatever systems VR puts in.

    I shouldn't have to be lucky to compete. It should come down to time spent on the character and progression that I can control. RNG drops are a **** way to control progrssion imo. Its almsot as bad as all those P2Win F2P games you all hate because of the RNG boxes and other garbage. The only difference being I don't have to pay for the drops... directly anyway.

    Maybe I am not explaining what I want to see. I want to be on the same level as anyone else in the game who has put the same amount of time into progressing my character without the need to be lucky enough to grab a drop or even grab a camp so I have the option of MAYBE grabbing a drop. Its just another RNG mechanic and I dislike those. Its not as blatent as the P2Win RNG boxes seen elsewhere, but its no less an issue for me.

     


    This post was edited by kellindil at August 1, 2017 7:31 AM PDT
    • 2130 posts
    August 1, 2017 7:50 AM PDT

    It seems to me that you just hate MMOs. Why are you interested in playing a genre of games that has gear progression as a fundamental?

    If someone's character is as powerful as mine because they killed enough trash mobs, then pretty much all of my incentive to play is gone. Gear progression sets me apart from the pack, whereas it sounds like you want a homogenized playerbase where 99% of players will reach a high percentile of character power by just auto attacking kobolds to death.

    Also, leaping to P2W in a thread about gear progression is laughable. How is that related to the topic at all?

    • 258 posts
    August 1, 2017 8:04 AM PDT

    kellindil said:

    gear progression

    This is my issue. I do not want to see GEAR progression. Period. I hate it. Character power should not be based on gear progression. Gear should provide MINOR boosts to character power. I hate the idea of a character being only as good as their gear, which equates to a player only being as powerful as they are lucky or if they are in the right cliche or guild.

    I want character power and progression to be 98% level/progeny/alt advancement and the rest gear.

     

    I'm not sure what this means. A naked level 50 Wizard will still nuke harder than a geared level 23 Wizard. Every MMO in existence without normalization is like that, and those with normalization are very few. For instance, ESO normalized all of their content to level 50/CP160 so a level 10 can hit as hard as a 50 with bad gear. Pantheon doesn't have any such normalization so this is a non-issue.

    Right, and a geared lvl 50 Wizard will be signifcantly more powerful than a naked lvl 50 Wizard. By orders of magnatude. I want to see those two Wizards almost equal assuming they are the same lvl, stage i n progeny (assuming progeny does anything), alt advanceent stage, and character age (time spent in the world killing and thus potentially colelcting gear). Where gear only gives a MINOR boost, because that gear is RARE.

    As rare as possible could be one in a million. EQ had some of the most memorable items in any game, yet that isn't good enough? I'm not sure what you're asking for. You want some +1 Dex gloves that drop from a level 13 mob to have a one in a million chance of dropping? No thanks.

    No.

    What I want to see is that there is only maybe 2-3 items from lvl 1-max for gloves, PERIOD. across ALL classes. Everything else is basically stat-less. Maybe one item drops from a lvl 13 and has +3int. Another drops for a lvl 36 and has +6str and another drops from a lvl 50 (assume this is max lvl for arguement's sake) and has +9 Dex.

    Then we have a helm that drops off a lvl 15 with +4 dex, one from a lvl 34 with +6 int, and another from a lvl 50 with +10 str

    Etc, Etc... Since those +3 int gloves are almost the ONLY item for a pure caster IN THE GAME, it is RARE to have a stat item in that slot. On top of that the gear drop rate should be fairly low. This way while lvling you will not be decked out. And once you hit max, those items you got at lvl 15 will still be powerful and useful due to gear being rare. Then at max level you might upgrade 1-2 pieces from raids over the next 6 months.

    Gear shouldn't mean as much in regards to overall power because it is rare, hopefully making it so that power is more about how much alt advancement has been done through whatever systems VR puts in.

    I shouldn't have to be lucky to compete. It should come down to time spent on the character and progression that I can control. RNG drops are a **** way to control progrssion imo. Its almsot as bad as all those P2Win F2P games you all hate because of the RNG boxes and other garbage. The only difference being I don't have to pay for the drops... directly anyway.

    Maybe I am not explaining what I want to see. I want to be on the same level as anyone else in the game who has put the same amount of time into progressing my character without the need to be lucky enough to grab a drop or even grab a camp so I have the option of MAYBE grabbing a drop. Its just another RNG mechanic and I dislike those. Its not as blatent as the P2Win RNG boxes seen elsewhere, but its no less an issue for me.

     



    For me, half the fun of any MMO is collecting/chasing items and gearing / twinking characters. That's one reason why I haven't taken any MMO seriously in the past decade... Their gear system (aka handing gear out like candy via dumb quest grinds) has zero excitement in it. In EQ, when even an average piece of gear dropped, it got you excited, especially early in the game or at low levels.

    Also, if gear were of so little importance, I probably wouldn't spend hours each week raiding. In fact, I probably wouldn't play the game at all if a naked 50 warrior were 98% as strong as a fully geared 50 warrior.

    • 422 posts
    August 1, 2017 8:14 AM PDT

    Liav said:

    It seems to me that you just hate MMOs. Why are you interested in playing a genre of games that has gear progression as a fundamental?

    If someone's character is as powerful as mine because they killed enough trash mobs, then pretty much all of my incentive to play is gone. Gear progression sets me apart from the pack, whereas it sounds like you want a homogenized playerbase where 99% of players will reach a high percentile of character power by just auto attacking kobolds to death.

    Also, leaping to P2W in a thread about gear progression is laughable. How is that related to the topic at all?

    ROFL, the thread is about what is a deal breaker for you in the game, not about gear progression. And it was a comparison between two different RNG mechanics that end up having the same impact. They are related in respect to MY opinions on gear progression as a mechanic.  Whats laughable is the fact that you missed my entire reason for making the comparison. Let me make it clear for you. I made the comparison because in my opinion the two have much the same impact on character power.

    No, I don't hate MMOs, I hate RNG mechanics in MMOs in all of their forms. The reason I dislike it, as I have said, is it takes control of my character's progression and power from my own hands and puts it in the RNG god's hands.

    Yes, I want everyone who puts in time, regardless of what they do, to be on the same playing field. Each person set apart, slightly, by the RNG luck they have with gear. This is what I want to see. I want to be rewarded EQUALLY for time commitment as anyone else. Spending months grinding xp, and having terrible luck on gear, only to end up being completely and utterly subpar to someone who spent three weeks grinding but got into the right camps and got lucky with gear. This might be a bit of an extreme in time spent, as we have no idea how fast the process of leveling will take at this point, but this is why I dislike gear progression as a mechanic. It favors the lucky, or just favors those who have absolutely no life and spend 24/7 for 6 months straight to grind the gear. Which in the case of the latter I can't really complain because they put in the time and effort.

    The fun in these games for me is not being better than other people and being set apart. Its about playing the game. The challenge in the game should come from figuring out lore puzzles and quests (because I hope quests are cryptic as hell and require you to actually go learn about the lore of the world to figure things out, not just talk to NPC who tells you step by step exactly what to do), from exploring and finding new things in the world, from defeating challenging raid encounters. Not in being lucky or spending so much time in one spot doing repetitive crap that one beats the odds.

    • 1303 posts
    August 1, 2017 8:21 AM PDT

    @Kellindil
    So if you spend six months killing deer alone you should have equal outcome to someone who spends six months with a guild who shares loot, helps when there's nothing in it for themself, and attempts the most difficult and rewarding content? 

    If we're talking extremes... 

     

     

    • 422 posts
    August 1, 2017 8:24 AM PDT

    Kaen said:

     


    For me, half the fun of any MMO is collecting/chasing items and gearing / twinking characters. That's one reason why I haven't taken any MMO seriously in the past decade... Their gear system (aka handing gear out like candy via dumb quest grinds) has zero excitement in it. In EQ, when even an average piece of gear dropped, it got you excited, especially early in the game or at low levels.

    Also, if gear were of so little importance, I probably wouldn't spend hours each week raiding. In fact, I probably wouldn't play the game at all if a naked 50 warrior were 98% as strong as a fully geared 50 warrior.

    And thats fine, our opinions are different. I don't play these games to chase gear, I play them for the sake of playing them. To see the world and experience the adventure, not gear. Thats a secondary thing I am required to do in most games to be viable.

    And you need to put the gear in context of the class. A Naked (as in absolutely no gear at all) Warrior would be nothing at all in power. But a Warrior with full plate armor, and thus a nice AC score compared to another Warrior with the same plate set, but a nice ear ring that +10 to all stats, both would be almost equal in power, with the Warrior sporting the ear ring *slightly* more powerful for it.

    • 1303 posts
    August 1, 2017 8:28 AM PDT

    kellindil said:

     

    And thats fine, our opinions are different. I don't play these games to chase gear, I play them for the sake of playing them. To see the world and experience the adventure, not gear. Thats a secondary thing I am required to do in most games to be viable.

    And you need to put the gear in context of the class. A Naked (as in absolutely no gear at all) Warrior would be nothing at all in power. But a Warrior with full plate armor, and thus a nice AC score compared to another Warrior with the same plate set, but a nice ear ring that +10 to all stats, both would be almost equal in power, with the Warrior sporting the ear ring *slightly* more powerful for it.

    So based on your previous posts, are you for or against that warrior with the earing being slightly more powerful? 

    • 422 posts
    August 1, 2017 8:29 AM PDT

    Feyshtey said:

    @Kellindil
    So if you spend six months killing deer alone you should have equal outcome to someone who spends six months with a guild who shares loot, helps when there's nothing in it for themself, and attempts the most difficult and rewarding content? 

    If we're talking extremes... 

     

     

    Why not? Like I said, in my opinion Raids are their own reward. You do them for the challenge, not because you become the most powerful in the game. I'd do raids if there were no gear drops. I'd do it for the challenging fight and to see the lore and story behind the encounter. If gear is NOT Random and I am garaunteed an item from every boss or named that is relvant to my class, then cool. Gear progression it is. If it's all completely random, no I don't like that. Luck should not play a huge part in player power. Player skill, intelligence, and character progression should be the most impactful by a large mergin.

    • 1303 posts
    August 1, 2017 8:32 AM PDT

    kellindil said:

    Why not? Like I said, in my opinion Raids are their own reward. You do them for the challenge, not because you become the most powerful in the game. I'd do raids if there were no gear drops. I'd do it for the challenging fight and to see the lore and story behind the encounter. If gear is NOT Random and I am garaunteed an item from every boss or named that is relvant to my class, then cool. Gear progression it is. If it's all completely random, no I don't like that. Luck should not play a huge part in player power. Player skill, intelligence, and character progression should be the most impactful by a large mergin.

    And your position here is perectly valid. I'd argue that you're in the extreme minority, but it's valid. The thread topic asks if this is a game-breaker for you. If you cannot obtain the same wealth/power/access/whatever by killing deer for six months as a group of highly efficient raiders dedicated to tackling the most extreme content, will you forgo buying the game? 

    • 422 posts
    August 1, 2017 8:57 AM PDT

    Feyshtey said:

    kellindil said:

    Why not? Like I said, in my opinion Raids are their own reward. You do them for the challenge, not because you become the most powerful in the game. I'd do raids if there were no gear drops. I'd do it for the challenging fight and to see the lore and story behind the encounter. If gear is NOT Random and I am garaunteed an item from every boss or named that is relvant to my class, then cool. Gear progression it is. If it's all completely random, no I don't like that. Luck should not play a huge part in player power. Player skill, intelligence, and character progression should be the most impactful by a large mergin.

    And your position here is perectly valid. I'd argue that you're in the extreme minority, but it's valid. The thread topic asks if this is a game-breaker for you. If you cannot obtain the same wealth/power/access/whatever by killing deer for six months as a group of highly efficient raiders dedicated to tackling the most extreme content, will you forgo buying the game? 

    I know I am the minority in this for sure. Believe me I have no illusions.

    When taken in the context of what VR wants the game to be, no it's not. If this was another WoW clone, then yes it would be. But the old school social aspect with no private instanced dungeons and class interdependance and almost required grouping is more than enough to make up for the fact that I will be subpar unless I get into the right guild and the right cliche and get lucky in the right dungeons and such to be "competitive". I can deal with one or two crap mechanics for an overall good game.

    • 1303 posts
    August 1, 2017 9:05 AM PDT

    kellindil said:

    Feyshtey said:

    kellindil said:

    Why not? Like I said, in my opinion Raids are their own reward. You do them for the challenge, not because you become the most powerful in the game. I'd do raids if there were no gear drops. I'd do it for the challenging fight and to see the lore and story behind the encounter. If gear is NOT Random and I am garaunteed an item from every boss or named that is relvant to my class, then cool. Gear progression it is. If it's all completely random, no I don't like that. Luck should not play a huge part in player power. Player skill, intelligence, and character progression should be the most impactful by a large mergin.

    And your position here is perectly valid. I'd argue that you're in the extreme minority, but it's valid. The thread topic asks if this is a game-breaker for you. If you cannot obtain the same wealth/power/access/whatever by killing deer for six months as a group of highly efficient raiders dedicated to tackling the most extreme content, will you forgo buying the game? 

    I know I am the

    minority in this for sure. Believe me I have no illusions.

    When taken in the context of what VR wants the game to be, no it's not. If this was another WoW clone, then yes it would be. But the old school social aspect with no private instanced dungeons and class interdependance and almost required grouping is more than enough to make up for the fact that I will be subpar unless I get into the right guild and the right cliche and get lucky in the right dungeons and such to be "competitive". I can deal with one or two crap mechanics for an overall good game.

    Well for what it's worth, I don't have the time or energy to get into the right click or raid or a lot of the social stuff. So I know I'll never be "competitive". I just dont care so long as I can survive and continue to progress, albeit at a knowingly far slower rate than others. 

    • 542 posts
    August 1, 2017 12:39 PM PDT

    Kaen said:

     if gear were of so little importance, I probably wouldn't spend hours each week raiding. In fact, I probably wouldn't play the game at all if a naked 50 warrior were 98% as strong as a fully geared 50 warrior.

    50 strong naked warriors would sure keep me playing <333

    for all we know equipping certain items could change character abilities and skills. changes that are in place only while the item is equipped and are not permanent. Items may increase or decrease stats (or both) depending on the item equipped.

    • 1399 posts
    August 2, 2017 10:49 AM PDT

    Fluffy said:

    50 strong naked warriors would sure keep me playing <333

    I'm betting you would run scared from anything more than 3

    /wink

    • 542 posts
    August 2, 2017 1:53 PM PDT

    Let them come ,I'll sing my songs of sorrow

    and they will still be crying tomorrow

    Then I can comfort them all

    and they shall be my thrall

    So deliciously ideal <333

    • 769 posts
    August 2, 2017 4:46 PM PDT

    Been a while since I've visited ye olde forums. Thought I'd chime in.

     

     

    My ideal game is one that gives us the ability to create and foster our own unique gaming enviornment - I.E. the least amount of artificial restrictions as possible.

     

    1. Having items be Bind on Equip, or having Level caps and locks on gear, as those effect the trading aspect.
    2. Auction houses VS. allowing the players to create their own trading system (EC tunnel/Gfay come to mind)
    3. Too much moderation. I want reputation to matter more than fear of GM intervention.
    4. As much freedom with skills and physics as possible without arbitrary mechanics (quad-kiting comes to mind. I'm quite sure that wasn't something that the devs thought of, and I like how those things happen organically by the players)
    5. Robust and varied grouping options. Overland grouping opportunities, dungeon grouping opportunities, small and large grouping opportunities. No group quantity restrictions in certain areas or encounters (although I don't think that's even possible if they're not going the Instance route - thank god).
    6. No arbitrary locks on skill-ups. Lock Pick in EQ comes to mind, and being able to sit for hours practicing on the first locked door in Befallen.
    7. A wide array of different skill sets that require level ups, and not just one blanket skill that covers all. Such as leveling up 1-Handed is all you need to weild a club/sword/dagger/mace/hammer/etc. I want all to have their own unique skill set that requires leveling.

     

    Basically, take everything we have in modern MMO's, and streeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeetch it out while removing GM interference. I want VR to create the book, and the players to color it however we damn well please, so much so that each server (are they doing separete servers?) has the potential to be different from the last.

     

    Deal breakers:

     

    1. I swear to god, if I see every other rogue in my level range wearing the same crap I'm wearing, I'm lighting a paper bag of poo on fire and leaving it on Brad's doorstep.
    2. Cash shops. Obvi.
    3. No death penalty worth a damn. I'm all for making it even harsher than classic EQ. Ya buncha sissies.
    4. Fast travel that isn't controlled by the players (I.E. wizard/druid teleport)
    5. Only one or two starting cities for EVERY SINGLE DAG GUM RACE AND CLASS

     

    That's not too much to ask, is it?

     

    • 220 posts
    August 9, 2017 11:19 PM PDT

    Game Breakers:

    -Limited or no Pie.
    -Cake of any Kind.

    Ideals:

    -Unlimited Pie of many variety.
    -Including Gnome Pie (made of Gnome, not by Gnomes)

    • 542 posts
    August 10, 2017 2:31 AM PDT

    A gnome pie ,I bet that is a pie infused with the magic that holds their body together :D <3333

    And that is a good metaphor for the ideal;recapturing the magic .While the game breaker is anything that lacks the magic*


    This post was edited by Fluffy at August 10, 2017 2:31 AM PDT
    • 9115 posts
    August 10, 2017 3:21 AM PDT

    ZennExile said:

    Game Breakers:

    -Limited or no Pie.
    -Cake of any Kind.

    Ideals:

    -Unlimited Pie of many variety.
    -Including Gnome Pie (made of Gnome, not by Gnomes)

    Now, this is a person with their priorities in check people. Take note! :D

    • 220 posts
    August 10, 2017 12:22 PM PDT

    Fluffy said:

    A gnome pie ,I bet that is a pie infused with the magic that holds their body together :D <3333

    And that is a good metaphor for the ideal;recapturing the magic .While the game breaker is anything that lacks the magic*

    It's mostly infused with the sinew that holds their meat together.  They tend to have very little fat on them so you need to render as much flavor as possible from the meat with the low and slow method.  Many Ogre pass stories of a chubby gnome tribe where tiny gnome butterballs run slowly and akwardly right into your hands, but in reality a fat gnome is like a Unicorn.  You just never find them.  Unless of course you capture a few and force feed them to the correct marble level for faster cooking.  #kobeGnome  Then you go back to the Ogre and claim you found yourself a chubby gnome village and charge 5000% markup.  They do however, get sweet when you cook them regardless of fat content.  That's the real magic.


    This post was edited by ZennExile at August 10, 2017 12:23 PM PDT
    • 281 posts
    August 10, 2017 3:31 PM PDT

    Liav said:

    kellindil said:

    I do not want to see item vending machines.

    There is a huge difference between this exaggeration and having some gear progression pre-max level.

    kellindil said:

    I want power to come from the character progression, not from items. Gear should be entirely secondary. I do not want to see a game where every class's power is directly determined by their gear alone.

    I'm not sure what this means. A naked level 50 Wizard will still nuke harder than a geared level 23 Wizard. Every MMO in existence without normalization is like that, and those with normalization are very few. For instance, ESO normalized all of their content to level 50/CP160 so a level 10 can hit as hard as a 50 with bad gear. Pantheon doesn't have any such normalization so this is a non-issue.

    kellindil said:

    I want to see items as rare as possible, so that they are truely memorable and that character strength is determined more by character level and Progeny stage, and what other Alt Advancement systems they use, not by gear.

    As rare as possible could be one in a million. EQ had some of the most memorable items in any game, yet that isn't good enough? I'm not sure what you're asking for. You want some +1 Dex gloves that drop from a level 13 mob to have a one in a million chance of dropping? No thanks.

    Yeah, EQ had memorable gear because, for the most part it wasn't cookie-cutter, but hand designed for the mob.  In later expansions that changed, to the detriment of the game.  Don't get me wrong, a game needs a system of itemization to allow for balanced gear opportunities to the various classes, but after a while, it became a simple matter of upping the stats of the gear from the last expansion and giving it a new name and skin.  And most games are exactly like that from the get go.

    Gear should be important and there should be enough variables to combat that one weapon would be better in some situations than others and not just because of elemental damage or some such.  Attack delay, procs, agro modifiers, damage types, stat bonuses and penalties, sub-stat bonuses and penalties, armor piercing, to-hit bonuses and penalties, defense bonuses and penalties, etc., etc.  Let's not put them all on the every item and leave little though to upgrade or not.  I remember having to decide whether this item, though better in some way was better over all or maybe not but yes in some situations, etc.  Haven't had to make a decision like that in some time in an MMO.

    • 7 posts
    August 10, 2017 9:16 PM PDT

    Liav said:

    It seems to me that you just hate MMOs. Why are you interested in playing a genre of games that has gear progression as a fundamental?

    If someone's character is as powerful as mine because they killed enough trash mobs, then pretty much all of my incentive to play is gone. Gear progression sets me apart from the pack, whereas it sounds like you want a homogenized playerbase where 99% of players will reach a high percentile of character power by just auto attacking kobolds to death.

    Also, leaping to P2W in a thread about gear progression is laughable. How is that related to the topic at all?

     

    I think that most people that hate gear progresion are probably the ones that don't like or can't raid that much. In their mind this will keep them at a level playing field. And is a horrible idea.

    • 281 posts
    August 10, 2017 9:45 PM PDT

    bdale0351 said:

    Liav said:

    It seems to me that you just hate MMOs. Why are you interested in playing a genre of games that has gear progression as a fundamental?

    If someone's character is as powerful as mine because they killed enough trash mobs, then pretty much all of my incentive to play is gone. Gear progression sets me apart from the pack, whereas it sounds like you want a homogenized playerbase where 99% of players will reach a high percentile of character power by just auto attacking kobolds to death.

    Also, leaping to P2W in a thread about gear progression is laughable. How is that related to the topic at all?

     

    I think that most people that hate gear progresion are probably the ones that don't like or can't raid that much. In their mind this will keep them at a level playing field. And is a horrible idea.



    I can understand one thing regarding the "dislike of gear progression".  Item mudification tends to occur in games and it does get old replacing you entire gear set every expansion with new gear that is x.xx% better with a new skin and different names that were gotten from a new set of mobs.

    That's not to say that I don't like doing that grind.  But I have gotten tired of it on occasion.  I think it can mostly be solved by having a slow progression in the power/tier of items over time (expansions) keeping the gap between raid and group items reasonable in terms of base stats, say 10%, have the real difference between group and raid be the secondary bonuses that are only indirectly influenced in group gear but get small, but direct bonuses in raid gear and, last but not least, each and every dungeon/expansion/item group be unique in its benefits.  Let their be many options at various tiers that have very different reasons to wear them and none of them are useless, though some may be very situational, but most have wide use and are better in some situations than not and mixing and matching bring about different builds.  The whole point being to make gear progression horizontal as well as vertical and break the cookie-cutter progression syndrome.


    This post was edited by DragonFist at August 10, 2017 9:45 PM PDT
    • 542 posts
    August 11, 2017 3:36 AM PDT

    ZennExile said:

    Fluffy said:

    A gnome pie ,I bet that is a pie infused with the magic that holds their body together :D <3333

    And that is a good metaphor for the ideal;recapturing the magic .While the game breaker is anything that lacks the magic*

    It's mostly infused with the sinew that holds their meat together.  They tend to have very little fat on them so you need to render as much flavor as possible from the meat with the low and slow method.  Many Ogre pass stories of a chubby gnome tribe where tiny gnome butterballs run slowly and akwardly right into your hands, but in reality a fat gnome is like a Unicorn.  You just never find them.  Unless of course you capture a few and force feed them to the correct marble level for faster cooking.  #kobeGnome  Then you go back to the Ogre and claim you found yourself a chubby gnome village and charge 5000% markup.  They do however, get sweet when you cook them regardless of fat content.  That's the real magic.

    Does the mayority majority of skinny gnomes resort to chubby charlantry? (the mayor might be that fat unicorn though)
    Trying to fool the Ogres that they have a lot of body's content to go for ,while in fact they have barely enough meat on them worthy of a burp
    Soon the gnomes will add a new upgrade to their fat suit -the chubby gnomenator 5
    Successfully deceiving more Ogres with body content that isn' there,but dreamed of by Ogres who crave delicious fat
    Until they examine it closer and discover the content is just stinky flour


    Just like players are fooled by Ilvls and the promise of awesome gear ,disguising the lack of quality content


    This post was edited by Fluffy at August 11, 2017 3:47 AM PDT