Forums » General Guild Discussion

Should guild ranks be shown publicly?

    • 397 posts
    July 18, 2017 7:29 AM PDT

    Some of you have probably experienced this: You get a tell from someone "Hey, is there an officer of your guild online?". Now you can tell them, but wouldn't it make sense for these positions to be shown publicly? For example, it could be listed in a /who output if someone is a guild master or an officer. Or perhaps it could be a flag that a player can set (for example, if they are appointed as official contact person for their guild). Or do you think something like this would be giving out too much information?

    • 1841 posts
    July 18, 2017 9:20 AM PDT

    I think guilds should be able to populate recruitment tabs in game, and if they have a recruitment officer, they can mention as much in their listing.  Outside of that I don't think anything like that should be forced.  If players can opt in or out, then sure.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at July 18, 2017 5:46 PM PDT
    • 419 posts
    July 18, 2017 12:32 PM PDT

    Meh, my question would be, "Who cares?" What possible issue could someone have with ranks being public? It doesn't open anyone up to harassment. Its not any kind of protected status. It wouldn't indicate race, gender, sexual preference, or any of the other stuff people might descriminate against. What real difference does it make? In a game like this everyone is going to, eventually, know who the leader and officiers are of any guild worth keeping track of. Where would be the harm? I would think that guilds would want at least their leadership tagged so as to assure someone isn't impersonating an officer and that people can find someone to report problem members easily.

    • 272 posts
    July 18, 2017 12:41 PM PDT

    Personally I think there should be two classifications for Guild info viewable to the public, Guild Leader and member.  The rank of each member is to be determined by the individual guild.  For example one guild has officers, while another has counselors, while another has attendents while another has barons/bishops/dukes/whatnot.  Unless there is a UNIVERSAL system for guild members in the game imposed on the players by the people of VR then that would make sense for that info to be made viewable by the public but since I strongly suspect that VR will not do impose such a system just make the public viewable info be Guild Leader and then Member. 

    • 1841 posts
    July 18, 2017 5:53 PM PDT

    (Anon) became a thing for a reason.  Sometimes people just don't want to be bothered, for any reason, while they play the game.  If going (Anon) would also make any assumed "rank" title go away then I would have no issue with it.  Kellindil is absolutely right that eventually people will know who the officers/leaders of various guilds are, but only if they are so inclined to be a part of the community and make that observation for themselves.  I wouldn't want any extra layer of search filter to be associated with my character if it can be avoided.  I like oldschool, and this kind of feature doesen't particularly appeal to me.  This is just my personal preference of course.

    • Moderator
    • 7553 posts
    July 18, 2017 8:54 PM PDT

    Guild ranks won't be displayed outside of Guild chat or the guild interface as there is no real reason to force a guild ranking structure onto an external citizen of Terminus, those guild members can just as easily continue to mention their rank in passing or during applications/trials if they see fit. :)

    • 532 posts
    July 20, 2017 1:58 AM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Guild ranks won't be displayed outside of Guild chat or the guild interface as there is no real reason to force a guild ranking structure onto an external citizen of Terminus, those guild members can just as easily continue to mention their rank in passing or during applications/trials if they see fit. :)

    If the reason for not showing Officer of, or Member of, or Raider of said guild is "there is no real reason to force a guild ranking structure onto an external citizen of Terminus" then I hope there will be no titles for anything else shown publicly in the general UI. If I want people to know I am the Saviour of Dragonhills I will introduce my self as Dreconic, Savior of Dragonhill, Raider of Such and Such guild,  50th lvl monk of the order Uberness Damagness!

    Saying that I really dont care to see titles of any kind and turn it off and most games :D


    This post was edited by Dreconic at July 20, 2017 1:58 AM PDT
    • Moderator
    • 7553 posts
    July 20, 2017 4:49 AM PDT

    Dreconic said:

    Kilsin said:

    Guild ranks won't be displayed outside of Guild chat or the guild interface as there is no real reason to force a guild ranking structure onto an external citizen of Terminus, those guild members can just as easily continue to mention their rank in passing or during applications/trials if they see fit. :)

    If the reason for not showing Officer of, or Member of, or Raider of said guild is "there is no real reason to force a guild ranking structure onto an external citizen of Terminus" then I hope there will be no titles for anything else shown publicly in the general UI. If I want people to know I am the Saviour of Dragonhills I will introduce my self as Dreconic, Savior of Dragonhill, Raider of Such and Such guild,  50th lvl monk of the order Uberness Damagness!

    Saying that I really dont care to see titles of any kind and turn it off and most games :D

    Guild roles/titles vs Game achievements/titles are completely different, no one cares if you are an officer, elder, recruiter from some random guild who has no authority over them but to see someone with the title of taking down one of the hardest mobs in game promotes respect, interaction etc. but there have always been options to toggle them off in most games if you don't like them, so I can't see why we would be any different man.

    • 265 posts
    July 23, 2017 4:46 AM PDT

    On that note, I love the idea of a title for taking down one of the hardest mobs in the game, or achieving a specific goal or treasure, or perhaps status in crafting, community status, honor, loyalty to faction, etc...

    • 153 posts
    August 2, 2017 6:09 AM PDT

    I want to say no , if there public + we have the ability to rename ranks ... I can see issues. Also from a guild leader / officer point of view it just turns into issues in general.

    • 419 posts
    August 2, 2017 7:22 AM PDT

    Xxar said:

    I want to say no , if there public + we have the ability to rename ranks ... I can see issues. Also from a guild leader / officer point of view it just turns into issues in general.

    What issues? Scared someone is going to put naughty words online? Pfft, thats more a non-issue. What other issue could possibly crop up around having ranks be visible?

    I honestly could care less either way, but what are these mystical issues people see?

    And yes, I know Kilsin already rang in on the subject, but I just want to understand what these "issues" are?

    • 1841 posts
    August 2, 2017 11:16 AM PDT

    I think I already spelled it out a few posts ago.  Sometimes people just don't want to be bothered.  I don't even want people to be able to inspect my armor unless I authorize them to do so ... as far as adding any sort of "search function" that makes my character more visible to the masses, I just don't like the idea of it.  As long as (anon) blocks all of this stuff I don't really care.  I miss EQOA days where people couldn't inspect my armor.  I get that this is a "MMO" that promotes interaction and all that but that doesen't mean anything/everything should be visible/accessible.  Allow players a degree of privacy if they wish to utilize it and all of this becomes a non-issue.

    To be frank, it's nobodies business what rank someone has in their guild except for people who are guilded with them.  If people want to socialize and figure this stuff out (gasp, communication) then they are free to do so.  Crafters looking for work, guilds who are recruiting, people who are LFG, yada yada yada ... I'm sure in those scenarios people would want their information visible to as many people as possible, and they should have the ability to get it done.  But there is the other side of the coin to be considered as well ... sometimes people just want to play with their friends and not be inundated by messages from people they don't know.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at August 2, 2017 11:16 AM PDT
    • 419 posts
    August 2, 2017 11:40 AM PDT

    oneADseven said:

    I think I already spelled it out a few posts ago.  Sometimes people just don't want to be bothered.  I don't even want people to be able to inspect my armor unless I authorize them to do so ... as far as adding any sort of "search function" that makes my character more visible to the masses, I just don't like the idea of it.  As long as (anon) blocks all of this stuff I don't really care.  I miss EQOA days where people couldn't inspect my armor.  I get that this is a "MMO" that promotes interaction and all that but that doesen't mean anything/everything should be visible/accessible.  Allow players a degree of privacy if they wish to utilize it and all of this becomes a non-issue.

    To be frank, it's nobodies business what rank someone has in their guild except for people who are guilded with them.  If people want to socialize and figure this stuff out (gasp, communication) then they are free to do so.  Crafters looking for work, guilds who are recruiting, people who are LFG, yada yada yada ... I'm sure in those scenarios people would want their information visible to as many people as possible, and they should have the ability to get it done.  But there is the other side of the coin to be considered as well ... sometimes people just want to play with their friends and not be inundated by messages from people they don't know.

    Thing is, what you describe isn't a "problem" it’s a personal preference. Which is completely fine. I don't see why anon couldn't hide that info.

    One thing I never understood was why people got their panties in a bunch over being inspected and such. What does it matter? If they didn't add in a notice telling you someone was inspecting you, you'd never even know. It just seems odd to me that so many people want to have a social community game but strive SO hard to be anti-social.

    As I said, I really couldn't care less either way if ranks were shown or not, I just fail to see why people are so vehemently against it.

    And I am not asking you or anyone to defend why they are against it. Just stating the fact that no matter how much anyone tries to explain it I just can't grasp what the big deal is. Seems like such a non-issue to me.

    • 1841 posts
    August 2, 2017 7:23 PM PDT

    To each their own.  There are plenty of things that people might view as a big deal that I would otherwise consider trivial, sometimes it makes sense to try and relate to them (which is great if I can learn something) and other times I just chalk it up (also great because I still learn something).  I'm sure plenty of panties would become bunched if people could just walk up to you in real life, inspect you (in detail), and call it socializing.  I get that it's not the same thing ... but I still see merit in the option for privacy.  I have personal experience playing in a game that didn't allow it (also my favorite MMO of all time, EQOA) and another game where the game would notify you when someone inspected you (second favorite MMO of all time, FFXI)  --  in FFXI, on a JP server there were some who would consider it "rude" to inspect their character without asking for permission.  It seemed like social game culture to me ... most really didn't care but some did.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at August 2, 2017 7:29 PM PDT
    • 60 posts
    August 3, 2017 12:22 PM PDT

    oneADseven said:

    To each their own.  There are plenty of things that people might view as a big deal that I would otherwise consider trivial, sometimes it makes sense to try and relate to them (which is great if I can learn something) and other times I just chalk it up (also great because I still learn something).  I'm sure plenty of panties would become bunched if people could just walk up to you in real life, inspect you (in detail), and call it socializing.  I get that it's not the same thing ... but I still see merit in the option for privacy.  I have personal experience playing in a game that didn't allow it (also my favorite MMO of all time, EQOA) and another game where the game would notify you when someone inspected you (second favorite MMO of all time, FFXI)  --  in FFXI, on a JP server there were some who would consider it "rude" to inspect their character without asking for permission.  It seemed like social game culture to me ... most really didn't care but some did.

    I agree Guild rank shouldn't be shown publicly, It's 99% useless most of the time. I do think people should be able to inspect you tho but just get either the graphics of what your wear, or maybe a name on mouse over. Like EQ did.

    And you were right even on the NA server I played on, I always asked before inspecting people. it was the polite thing to do.

    • 738 posts
    August 3, 2017 12:28 PM PDT

    This sorta of follows the topic of knowing who is what rank in order of contact information. Either it was to join or report a players behavior perhaps there can be a ingame mail for all guilds that will be sent to the ranks in a guild that the guild wants to see those mails. Easy way to contact the guild and hide the internal structure. Doing a /who all guildname can sometimes work but that person you contact may not see the tell/text due to raid spam or just forget and not pass along the inquiry.

     

    As for the inspection convo, I always liked being inspected because it was mostly someone wanting to know what I had and where they could get it.

    Kinda like someone saying Hey nice car etc.

    I also like looking at others players gear if I ask or not because you may learn of an better item that you didn't know about.

     

    Funny feature would be if someone inspected you that you didnt want to, you could be able to land a few melee hits or cast a spell on them :)


    This post was edited by Zeem at August 3, 2017 12:32 PM PDT
    • 1841 posts
    August 3, 2017 12:32 PM PDT

    I will always have special memories in EQOA where I was able to tank things that nobody else could because of the situational gear I was wearing.  Other tanks never caught on and proceeded to get one shot ... they would message me and ask how I was able to do it, and I told them I had the "Holy Girdle of Family Jewels" on ... most didn't believe it but some did!  Either way ... in todays age, most of this stuff will pop up online anyway.  But I do like the idea of having situational gear on that allows me to excel in certain situations, and when people see it happen, they can't just inspect and go "Oh, I just need pieces X, Y, and Z and then I can do what he is."  I really hope (anon) will prevent people from being able to inspect my gear.  When I have my toon AFK in town I wouldn't use it ... but when it comes to a competitive raid scene, every little factor that can be an edge in combat makes a difference.  This is just my personal preference but I think people are more likely to socialize if they need permission to inspect people.  I used to always get messages in EQOA ... that went away in other games where everybody could freely inspect.

    • 60 posts
    August 3, 2017 6:12 PM PDT

    oneADseven said:

    I will always have special memories in EQOA where I was able to tank things that nobody else could because of the situational gear I was wearing.  Other tanks never caught on and proceeded to get one shot ... they would message me and ask how I was able to do it, and I told them I had the "Holy Girdle of Family Jewels" on ... most didn't believe it but some did!  Either way ... in todays age, most of this stuff will pop up online anyway.  But I do like the idea of having situational gear on that allows me to excel in certain situations, and when people see it happen, they can't just inspect and go "Oh, I just need pieces X, Y, and Z and then I can do what he is."  I really hope (anon) will prevent people from being able to inspect my gear.  When I have my toon AFK in town I wouldn't use it ... but when it comes to a competitive raid scene, every little factor that can be an edge in combat makes a difference.  This is just my personal preference but I think people are more likely to socialize if they need permission to inspect people.  I used to always get messages in EQOA ... that went away in other games where everybody could freely inspect.

    Sooo you just enjoy being famous and having people constantly ask you questions about how you're so good at tanking something when they fail? lol

    • 1841 posts
    August 3, 2017 8:07 PM PDT

    It wasn't even a matter of being famous really ... I just liked the added sense of mystery that my character had.  I liked the idea that I could study encounters, wear situational gear that would help me beat them, and when the competition watched it happen, they couldn't just simply /inspect and imitate.  I also enjoyed being able to identify a piece visually.  I can't say I remember what most pieces of gear looked like in other games ... but when the visual aspect of gear is all that you can use to identify it, it becomes much more prevalent.  To answer your question specifically though ... yes, I do miss the idea of people asking me about my gear, or me doing the same to others.  I was a breastplate connoisseur in EQOA and I'll never forget the dark elf warrior Hibashu who had a breastplate that wasn't in my collection and refused to let me know what it was or where he got it.  This same guy used to train me all the time ... miss those too lol.  I just personally feel more vested in the social aspect of the game when little things like this exist ... when people have a reason to message someone and talk about their gear.

    • 60 posts
    August 3, 2017 8:53 PM PDT

    True, I see your point. I like to study a raid and come up with ways to down it outside the normal strat. And yea if visual i s all you have you pay more attention. But we will see what they end up putting in.... just dont be too sad when people can inspect you. :(

    P.s you gotta check your messages more often lol


    This post was edited by Nymphey at August 3, 2017 8:54 PM PDT
    • 2557 posts
    August 9, 2017 8:55 AM PDT

    Inspect should be a toggle../inspect off ..when it was implemented in EQ, people could come by and spam inspect you which would show up as literal spam and was a way to annoy people for the sake of being annoying.

       And as far as guild ranks showing I am glad to see Kilsin has stated how its going to be.   Certain classes go anonymous due to constant contacts,  because they are this or that useful class (wizards and druids for example for ports)  visible guild ranks would worsen that scenario.      I seem to remember some sort of game app ..was it Rift?  Where you could look up the guild you were interested in,  and it would list the guild leader and current officers.   That might be helpful,  but probably something that belongs on a wish list for after release if not already in the works now.    All these things take time to implement,  and I am sure the Devs are doing the best they can implementing the game vision they have on their planned agenda.  

     

    Cana

    • 497 posts
    August 10, 2017 8:12 AM PDT

    CanadinaXegony said:

    Inspect should be a toggle../inspect off ..when it was implemented in EQ, people could come by and spam inspect you which would show up as literal spam and was a way to annoy people for the sake of being annoying.

       And as far as guild ranks showing I am glad to see Kilsin has stated how its going to be.   Certain classes go anonymous due to constant contacts,  because they are this or that useful class (wizards and druids for example for ports)  visible guild ranks would worsen that scenario.      I seem to remember some sort of game app ..was it Rift?  Where you could look up the guild you were interested in,  and it would list the guild leader and current officers.   That might be helpful,  but probably something that belongs on a wish list for after release if not already in the works now.    All these things take time to implement,  and I am sure the Devs are doing the best they can implementing the game vision they have on their planned agenda.  

     

    Cana

     

    It is very helpful knowing officers, and Guildleader of current guilds on some form of list. If your interested in a certain guild you can search, and it lists all the members and guild structure. The guilds might be able to link specific information to head to www.xxxx web site and apply, or simply send someone a /tell for an invite. There maybe also guild achievements and kills, progression stats etc.. might be helpful on deciding if they fit your role. Many times you leave a guild, come back a year later and you are so far behind. Sometimes it is best to join another guild and progress at your speed. Skipping content was my biggest beef in most mmo's, your left behind.

     

    So search engine, info and guild structure are very helpful on picking a guild to join or simply reviewing progression.

    • 251 posts
    August 11, 2017 6:05 PM PDT

    You guise memba when a guild was just players who like to play together and you just looked at someone's gear to know their rank? 

    I memba.


    This post was edited by ZennExile at August 11, 2017 6:05 PM PDT