I proposed an idea a few months ago that would incentivize players to recruit others backers to the game. Apparently Ashes of Creation is doing exactly that, but unlike the system I proposed where the incentive would be limited to an increase toward our own pledge, Ashes of Creation is actually willing to shell out cash. I'm a bit disappointed that the idea hasn't gained more traction with VR. Pantheon has an amazing organic following and I feel like we're missing out on a lot of user-generated content that promotes and markets the game. People harped on the idea saying they would just do that stuff out of the kindness of their heart and blah blah blah ... well ... where are our links similar to this? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOdU6gJ07rQ
That video has nearly 650k views and it was made by someone who doesen't even work for their company. The video was launched about a month ago and has more views than any Pantheon video out there, official or unofficial. I'm really disheartened by those numbers and I think it goes to show that incentivizing a "recruit a friend" model could yield a lot of traction and promotional content for the game. As someone who has a background in recruiting, online marketing (standard and affiliate), video creation & editing, I'm disappointed that a similar opportunity isn't available for Pantheon. I don't even care about making money ... I want to raise awareness for the game, but it costs money to create those high-end videos and it also requires quite a bit of time and effort. My goal would be to earn the $10k pledge so that I could help design a dungeon or raid ... if only the opportunity were available I feel that many would pursue it. There is no better form of advertising than word of mouth and it's a shame that we aren't capitalizing on a similar model.
Here is a link that contains info on their affiliate program: https://www.ashesofcreation.com/referral-program/
Has this been ruled out completely for Pantheon? Is it possible we could see something like this in the future? I would really like to know ... and the sooner the better.
I am posting this in the off-topic forum as I'm not trying to promote another game ... far from it, in fact. But they are utilizing a system that is driving traffic to their site and promoting their game. I always felt EQ would have been a much bigger success if they focused more on marketing like WoW did. There is a ton of potential with this system and if adding more money to the pipeline is a legitimate goal for VR then I really think a similar model should be considered.
I posted my idea back in January on this thread: http://pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5106/invite-a-friend-program/view/page/1
I was told that VR's model "isn't up for discussion." Well I have heard that same comment on 15 other threads that I have started and I'm at the point now where I'm ready to just take a step back and avoid the forum altogether because I have run out of things to do on here. I am very passionate about Pantheon and it's success but it's become increasingly clear that community feedback is all but pointless until we get into testing. Seeing as this particular concept doesen't really have anything to do with testing, I'm hoping that this suggestion is passed on to the marketing team for consideration. We're leaving a lot of meat on the bone while competitors are leveraging community driven promotional endeavors and raking in the dough. Ashes of Creation is now being touted as "Kickstarter's Most Successful MMO" according to pcgamer.com while Shroud of Avatar and Pantheon Rise of the Fallen "have arguably failed." PCGamer.com is a pretty popular site and I don't like seeing those kind of comments.
Star Citizen is also using a similar program: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/referral-program
I have articles popping up on my phone promoting these games and their referral programs and I have never even showed an ounce of interest in either of them. It's frustrating ... I know VR has their own system and models going on (reminded of that all the time) and that they aren't too keen on community feedback or suggestions ... but I'm taking a stab at this one more time. I want nothing but the best for this game and am sharing this information with the best of intentions. If the idea won't be considered, so be it ... but please don't shoot the messenger. Thank you.
Hey 187, take a breath man. I suspect that once VR is ready to start marketing the game they will look at that but from all intents and purposes it looks like VR is still in the Building and design phase which needs to be done like 80 to 90% done before you get to the marketing phase. I am fiarly certain that the people that are overseeing that aspect of the game are looking at options and that kind of thing but it is still WAY to early right now. I can see a probem with promoting the game right now when it still looks to be about a year away from release. The surge of interest in the game would be great for the first 3 or 4 months but then everyone's interest would be drawn to other games because this one was taking so long to be finished to where they could play it and this would cause the game to get a bad reputation before it was even available to teh public and it is VERY difficult to change perceptions once negative ones start.
Why does the game have to be 80-90% done? Is that how far along Ashes of Creation is? It says they just made over $2M in two weeks (May 17'th) on their Kickstarter so I highly doubt their game is 80-90% done. It didn't take a finished product to get me hooked on Pantheon ... it just took awareness. As soon as I heard about it, I was drawn in. You mention it's very difficult to change perceptions once you get a bad reputation and I would argue against that (Not saying that isn't true, but at least in the case of this game I think we've made a strong comeback). Pantheon didn't have the best reputation coming out of the gate and has come a long way since then. I would say it has a very positive reputation right now (Most anticipated MMO) but you make a good point because in that article I read today it said Pantheon "arguably failed" it's Kickstarter Campaign so stuff from early on is still lingering. Even though we still have a lot to learn about the game ... the core design, concepts and tenets make it a very attractive product for a wide audience. I always felt that user generated and community driven promotion was much different than a company promoting it's own game. People seem to buy into that kind of marketing really well when it comes to entertainment and gaming.
Anyway, I understand there is a time and place for things and I saw that one of the recent hires, David Schlow, is the "Producer of Promotional Content." I figured that it was fair to assume that we might be at the stage now where something like this would be considered. I think it's always fair to measure yourself against the competition and as someone who is highly vested into this game I just want us to be the best in every way possible. I have a ton of faith in Pantheon, so much that I'm not even considering any of the other games being developed right now, because I truly believe in VR and their vision for this game. Anytime I talk to a friend about it I always refer to it as "the best game ever" and I really do believe that. Again, I understand having reservations about promoting an unfinished product ... it's a totally legitimate concern. But the hype train has already started for Pantheon as far as I'm concerned (we're getting close to Pre-Alpha) and I really just want to see Pantheon blow everybody else out the water. There should be no confusion on what the best game will be and I just find it rather shocking how well some of these other games are doing with their kickstarters and other marketing campaigns. It makes no sense to me how that video I linked earlier has nearly 650k views in 1 month whereas it's taken the top 6 videos from Pantheon over the past 3 years to generate that much exposure. I'm not saying it's a bad omen or anything like that. I just feel that Pantheon is the best and should be the #1 viewed MMO in development on Youtube right now and can't wait to see it get there.
As I have previously stated, we have something in the works and will reveal it when we are ready too but I need to remind people that this is our game, built on our ideas with our vision guiding it, it is not open development, our Kickstarter failed and we took it to closed/private development and we are at a stage now that we are close to our first ever testing session, which is a big milestone for us and one we are very proud of, we have used people's ideas and suggestions over the years to tweak our own where we felt they would be useful but other than that, unless we specifically ask for feedback or ideas on things, what you are proposing is just something you would like to see, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is suited to our game or our vision or that the rest of the community wants to see it, which is why so many of those "Idea's/Suggestion" threads spiral into chaos, arguments over personal opinions and end up being closed, nearly every single one of them and for each of those ideas, we have our own already partially in place that we will reveal when the time is right.
It is great to see such passion and drive from our community on things such as this, we love the enthusiasm but don't assume that your idea is right for us or that we don't already have something planned that is very similar, making a game isn't based on random decisions as we go along, it is mapped out from the start and follows a pretty strict development process that demands consistency and adherence to most of the systems, mechanics and features that were originally put forward to form the base of the game, they all intertwine and compliment each other, we can tweak things here and there or scrap things entirely if they don't work once tested but until you all get in and see what we have actually done, throwing ideas at us like this isn't going to have the effect you think it will.
My suggestion would be to wait and see what we have before trying to tell us what you think we should do or pointing to some other companies game and telling us we should be more like them. We have our own things in place and they will be revealed when they are ready my friend, and not a second before. :)
Kilsin said:As I have previously stated, we have something in the works and will reveal it when we are ready too but I need to remind people that this is our game, built on our ideas with our vision guiding it, it is not open development, our Kickstarter failed and we took it to closed/private development and we are at a stage now that we are close to our first ever testing session, which is a big milestone for us and one we are very proud of, we have used people's ideas and suggestions over the years to tweak our own where we felt they would be useful but other than that, unless we specifically ask for feedback or ideas on things, what you are proposing is just something you would like to see, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is suited to our game or our vision or that the rest of the community wants to see it, which is why so many of those "Idea's/Suggestion" threads spiral into chaos, arguments over personal opinions and end up being closed, nearly every single one of them and for each of those ideas, we have our own already partially in place that we will reveal when the time is right.
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I am looking forward to contributing to / jumping on the hype train when it gets rolling! I am excited to see what you guys have in store for us when the time comes. We as a community still have word of mouth at this point. Spread the word! I am trying to rally my friends from my FFXI days.
Edit: phone emoji killed the rest of my post :(
Something else to remember: Just because there is a bundle into the Kickstarter program doesn't mean that the game will actually be released. It wouldn't be the first time a game got to Alpha or Beta and got grounded! Promotion is easy for some... some more than others ...and VR has stated its intentions, like Kils said.
This is why AG won't be promoting itself any more than it has. We haven't got a big, fancy web page yet, either. We're in "wait and see" mode (aka Watcher status) like everyone else and when it is time, we will be releasing more, as well. Shoot... I had an advertising/graphics agency at one point. Marketing isn't a stranger to me, or to some of the others in AG. We just don't think we need to get ourselves in a wad this early on. We're having a great time on an old EQ server with old graphics - members from 17 years ago and new.
Time to relax and watch. Get some popcorn and enjoy the show! When the curtain comes up, we'll all be able to stand up and cheer together! :)
I was under the impression that our community was encouraged to share ideas ... it wasn't long ago (April) when Brad shared the following comment:
"So our goal (shared with the dev team and community) is to think about systems like the Caravan system and any other potential systems/mechanics/features that help keep groups together, the community together, but then also keep the game challenging, travel important, etc. It's easy to simply say, well, a lot of the time, at least on the surface, those two goals are at odds with each other or incompatible. I don't accept that, however. I think if we're careful, think these things through (an opposed to just voicing opposition in a reactionary manner), think outside the box, and believe that most or all of these challenges are solvable, we can really break some new ground and end up with an MMO full of community, grouping, RL friends, guilds, etc. that is also rewarding and challenging as all heck.
And if we talk about such systems before implementation and testing, then maybe we can avoid most issues ahead of time. And then during actual testing we can find and address those pesky issues that oftentimes don't rear their ugly heads until people are actually playing the game. 'nuff said for now -- as is often for me I wanted to answer the Caravan system question specifically but also illuminate that it belongs to a larger part of Pantheon's mechanics and features, those being the group intended to help people play together, find friends, make new friends, interact with and find a reason to be part of the community. And then get people thinking, hey, how can we all do this without chimping out the hard core MMO we all want?"
When you say things like "This is our game, built on our ideas with our vision guiding it" don't you think that's a bit contradictive with the goal that was shared by Brad for the entire community? I'm not trying to steal YOUR baby ... I am only trying to help spin up ideas and work on what has been described as a shared goal between the dev team and community. You have single handedly suffocated my creative flame for this game on many occassions. You mention "Unless we specifically ask for feedback or ideas on things" that I shouldn't bother doing what I do. Brad asked the community to pull together to share ideas yet every time I try to participate in that, my ideas are thwarted and snuffed out as if I am some sort of unqualifed imposter. You have started plenty of threads asking our opinions on a screenshot or to share memories of our favorite pastimes in other games ... that's all fine and dandy, but when are you going to encourage us to provide feedback or suggestions that actually pertain to the development of Pantheon? That's why I am here ... that's why I am spending good money to participate on this forum. Once we get into pre-alpha, are only pre-alpha members feedback going to be meaningful? What about all of the other supporters who are still vested in and passionate about the game who aren't able to participate in testing until later?
I would love to be able to post or share ideas in an environment where creativity and collaboration are encouraged. Instead, I feel like I am a terrible inconvenience who should just shut up and be thankful for what I get. Don't ask questions. Don't think. I should just shut up and be grateful while I wait to be told when it's okay for me to start thinking again ... and the worst part is that there are people in the community picking up on that and promoting the idea that we should all just be silenced! Ugh. This game has the best damn community I have ever seen and I really think there should be more emphasis on leveraging our passion and support for this game. This energy should be harnessed ... not brushed aside as a hindrance. I know a lot of people who have stopped posting on here because of the vibe that has been observed and I really hope the new forums will provide a spark of life and breath of fresh air to get people back into the swing of things and feeling like it's okay to engage and interact with each other. Just yesterday a post was locked in the "Post Launch Features, Mechanics & Tenets" sub-forum because you said the idea was more suited for testing. It's a "Post-Launch" sub-forum for crying out loud ... a place where people can share ideas for the future ... "post-launch" even so I fail to see how it's okay to dismiss that conversation because it's better suited for testing.
There seems to be a disconnect in regards to what we're expected or even allowed to do as a member of this community and I hope the new forums provide clarity on the state of the game and our presence in it. We're all trying to stay busy for a game that isn't out yet ... I understand that testing will open a new phase of feedback and suggestions but as of right now we have a lot of ideas that are being prematurely dismissed because we aren't in testing. As Brad pointed out, by engaging in discussions about systems prior to their implementation and testing, it's possible some problems can be avoided. So which is it? I choose to spend a lot of my free time promoting Pantheon when in reality I could be spending that time playing another game. Do you want players to have a reason to be engaged on the forums and in this community or should we piss off and do something else with our time until testing opens up because that's the only time where our presence and efforts are appreciated and considered meaningful? I just want to make the most out of my time spent here in the community and being able to enjoy freedom with creative dialogue is a big part of that. To engage or not to engage ... that is the question. If the goal is for the community to engage/interact with one another, please provide an outlet for us to do so. As it stands, many of the interesting topics are off-limits. What should the community be working together on? A little bit of direction or guidance would go a long way. Thank you.
oneADseven said:I was under the impression that our community was encouraged to share ideas ... it wasn't long ago (April) when Brad shared the following comment:
"So our goal (shared with the dev team and community) is to think about systems like the Caravan system and any other potential systems/mechanics/features that help keep groups together, the community together, but then also keep the game challenging, travel important, etc. It's easy to simply say, well, a lot of the time, at least on the surface, those two goals are at odds with each other or incompatible. I don't accept that, however. I think if we're careful, think these things through (an opposed to just voicing opposition in a reactionary manner), think outside the box, and believe that most or all of these challenges are solvable, we can really break some new ground and end up with an MMO full of community, grouping, RL friends, guilds, etc. that is also rewarding and challenging as all heck.
And if we talk about such systems before implementation and testing, then maybe we can avoid most issues ahead of time. And then during actual testing we can find and address those pesky issues that oftentimes don't rear their ugly heads until people are actually playing the game. 'nuff said for now -- as is often for me I wanted to answer the Caravan system question specifically but also illuminate that it belongs to a larger part of Pantheon's mechanics and features, those being the group intended to help people play together, find friends, make new friends, interact with and find a reason to be part of the community. And then get people thinking, hey, how can we all do this without chimping out the hard core MMO we all want?"
When you say things like "This is our game, built on our ideas with our vision guiding it" don't you think that's a bit contradictive with the goal that was shared by Brad for the entire community? I'm not trying to steal YOUR baby ... I am only trying to help spin up ideas and work on what has been described as a shared goal between the dev team and community. You have single handedly suffocated my creative flame for this game on many occassions. You mention "Unless we specifically ask for feedback or ideas on things" that I shouldn't bother doing what I do. Brad asked the community to pull together to share ideas yet every time I try to participate in that, my ideas are thwarted and snuffed out as if I am some sort of unqualifed imposter. You have started plenty of threads asking our opinions on a screenshot or to share memories of our favorite pastimes in other games ... that's all fine and dandy, but when are you going to encourage us to provide feedback or suggestions that actually pertain to the development of Pantheon? That's why I am here ... that's why I am spending good money to participate on this forum. Once we get into pre-alpha, are only pre-alpha members feedback going to be meaningful? What about all of the other supporters who are still vested in and passionate about the game who aren't able to participate in testing until later?
I would love to be able to post or share ideas in an environment where creativity and collaboration are encouraged. Instead, I feel like I am a terrible inconvenience who should just shut up and be thankful for what I get. Don't ask questions. Don't think. I should just shut up and be grateful while I wait to be told when it's okay for me to start thinking again ... and the worst part is that there are people in the community picking up on that and promoting the idea that we should all just be silenced! Ugh. This game has the best damn community I have ever seen and I really think there should be more emphasis on leveraging our passion and support for this game. This energy should be harnessed ... not brushed aside as a hindrance. I know a lot of people who have stopped posting on here because of the vibe that has been observed and I really hope the new forums will provide a spark of life and breath of fresh air to get people back into the swing of things and feeling like it's okay to engage and interact with each other. Just yesterday a post was locked in the "Post Launch Features, Mechanics & Tenets" sub-forum because you said the idea was more suited for testing. It's a "Post-Launch" sub-forum for crying out loud ... a place where people can share ideas for the future ... "post-launch" even so I fail to see how it's okay to dismiss that conversation because it's better suited for testing.
There seems to be a disconnect in regards to what we're expected or even allowed to do as a member of this community and I hope the new forums provide clarity on the state of the game and our presence in it. We're all trying to stay busy for a game that isn't out yet ... I understand that testing will open a new phase of feedback and suggestions but as of right now we have a lot of ideas that are being prematurely dismissed because we aren't in testing. As Brad pointed out, by engaging in discussions about systems prior to their implementation and testing, it's possible some problems can be avoided. So which is it? I choose to spend a lot of my free time promoting Pantheon when in reality I could be spending that time playing another game. Do you want players to have a reason to be engaged on the forums and in this community or should we piss off and do something else with our time until testing opens up because that's the only time where our presence and efforts are appreciated and considered meaningful? I just want to make the most out of my time spent here in the community and being able to enjoy freedom with creative dialogue is a big part of that. To engage or not to engage ... that is the question. If the goal is for the community to engage/interact with one another, please provide an outlet for us to do so. As it stands, many of the interesting topics are off-limits. What should the community be working together on? A little bit of direction or guidance would go a long way. Thank you.
I think that the problem is that they are quite far into development at the moment so when people come out with really complex ideas it is way to late in the development cycle to start implementing these ideas. You do have a tendency to come up with big ideas which are just probably way to complex to implement without pushing the release date of the game even further back. The devs probably also have their own ideas which they need to prioritise as well. I'm not a game developer but I am a software developer and one of the most important things in software development is keeping feature creep under control. The easiest thing in software development is to say "Yes!" to every good idea someone has until you realise you are now way behind schedule and you are nowhere near to having a product being launched.
I get the impression that testing is near. This is not the time to be adding massive new features into the game. This is the time to get the game ready for external testing and to eventually polish things so that they can release the game to the public.
oneADseven said: This idea has nothing to do with in-game world or feature development though. It's purely based around promoting the game, something I was under the impression that is a community goal. So which is it? Do I do my part and try to be an active and vocal member of the community to try and help realize that goal or just hush and be quiet? I am getting mixed signals on what is expected from us. I felt my idea was aligned with what Brad described as a shared goal between the development team and the community but then it's met with critical skepticism saying that it isn't a part of a predetermined vision that is already in place. Brad specifically mentioned marketing and promotion as an area that we could improve upon so when someone starts discussing ideas in that area, why are they met with resilience? When I see a competing game thriving in the area of promotion, an admitted area where we could improve, why am I being made out as the bad guy for shedding light on some of the features that they are using to market their game? Again, 650k views in 1 month from a single video. It takes 7 of our top videos from the last 3 years to get to that number. It isn't a matter of making Pantheon more like Ashes of Creation, it's being cognizant of market trends and then questioning what could we do to be better? I share Brad's passion in regards to not being complacent or "settling." I feel we should always be challenging ourselves to improve and being aware of what the competition is doing is pretty important. Don't you think other game companies are doing the exact same thing? I feel that Pantheon is the best MMO out there right now and that we aren't getting as much exposure as we should be. We get nice interviews and reviews but why isn't that showing up on paper when it comes to view count for our videos? My idea was met with resilience 4 months ago and then shortly thereafter Brad specifically said that we could improve in the area of marketing and promotion ... how do you think that makes me feel? I think what we need is a legitimate "goal agenda" for the community. I want to know exactly what I can do as a member of this community to help make this game be as successful as possible. We need more clarity in this area, some sort of sticky or official statement that we can reference. Right now it feels like I am just tossing darts in the dark ... I try to do what I feel is a contribution and it's spun around as if I am trying to impose concepts or features that go against VR's vision. That is the issue I am having right now ... I am just trying to be helpful but then come to learn that my efforts are nothing more than a pester. That isn't encouraging ... it's a downright buzz kill that makes me question whether or not my passion and commitment to this game is even wanted. Is that acceptable, honestly? As a business owner I can tell you that I would never want any of my clients feeling that way. In fact ... quite the opposite. I truly appreciate any and all feedback from my customers as they are all important to me and the last thing I would ever tell one of them is that their ideas or suggestions aren't welcomed. If you want to think that way ... so be it, but don't tell someone that. This idea of constantly closing off the suggestion box needs to stop because it shows a lack of consideration and comes off like "We know what's best. We have a plan and you couldn't possibly begin to understand the intricacies of our plan with your tiny little peon brain. When we need one of your suggestions we will be sure to let you know ... in the meantime let the grown ups talk and go back to your seat at the kids table." I am not a game developer but I am a professional and I know that there are certain guidelines on what is considered acceptable with how you treat people, especially your customers! Telling a customer that their feedback is pointless is not cool. Like I said, think it if you want to but you don't publish that stuff in a public area. I am known for being quite vocal and pushing ideas but that's only because I care. If you don't like the idea ... whatever, at least acknowledge it and make the person who offered it feel like they are being heard. If it doesn't make sense NOW, maybe you can come back to it later. But don't shut down open dialogue and creative thinking ... don't shun your fan base and make them feel inadequate. Again, I am no game developer and I am not saying my idea was the best idea in the world or it absolutely needed to be implemented. I specifically asked if something like this would even be considered. I am not asking for a master plan to be revealed ... just looking for some reassurance in an area where I KNOW we could be doing better. Let's make it happen ... and let me know how I can help other than telling me to wait and count sand.
I don't understand why you are seeing this as people ignoring your ideas? Kilsin specifically stated that they have something in the works already but they are not ready to share it yet. I think half the reason the kickstarter for Pantheon failed is because they tried to get funding before they had enough content to show off and too early in the development cycle. Promoting something before it is ready to be shown can be worse (much worse) than no promotion at all. As I said I get the feeling that testing is coming soon. I also get the impression that much more new information is going to be released to the community soon. Surely it would be better to start promoting the game at that point rather than now when there isn't all that much concrete information available?
I mean what concrete stuff do we really know about the game? We have 4 Twitch stream videos and the newsletters. That is it. Do you really think starting to heavily promote a game with so little information available is a good idea? It would be a total waste of money when it comes to marketing funds. VR are probably just waiting for the right time. Business is hard. If you want to promote the game yourself then do so. I know I certainly am but when it comes to paying advertising money and promotion money you have to be really careful.
These people are experienced business people. I trust them to know what they are doing.
Just chill. They have repeatedly stated that they are building the game to their vision. Simple as that. They welcome feedback and ideas. However, it's still there game. If they don't like your idea, you will survive.
For once, I am very satisfied that a company is working on DEVELOPING a game and THEN marketing it when it's READY. I am tired of seeing games like AoC that are all fluff and cosmetics.
Be happy with what we got.
I am VERY happy that they are sticking to their plans and not giving in to our constant whining.
Crowd funding does not equal crowd development.
In the future, if you have an idea, state it. But, then let it drop. If they like it, they will run with it. Arguing with the devs and being belligerent will not get your idea accepted.
I have definitely learned there is no point arguing on the forums. State your opinion and let others state theirs. VR will decide if it fits THEIR game.
If we like the finished product, we will play it. If not enough players like it, they will change or fail. But, it's their game. They are all risking their own futures/finances, we are not.
Beefcake said:Just chill. They have repeatedly stated that they are building the game to their vision. Simple as that. They welcome feedback and ideas. However, it's still there game. If they don't like your idea, you will survive.
For once, I am very satisfied that a company is working on DEVELOPING a game and THEN marketing it when it's READY. I am tired of seeing games like AoC that are all fluff and cosmetics.
Be happy with what we got.
I am VERY happy that they are sticking to their plans and not giving in to our constant whining.
Crowd funding does not equal crowd development.
In the future, if you have an idea, state it. But, then let it drop. If they like it, they will run with it. Arguing with the devs and being belligerent will not get your idea accepted.
I have definitely learned there is no point arguing on the forums. State your opinion and let others state theirs. VR will decide if it fits THEIR game.
If we like the finished product, we will play it. If not enough players like it, they will change or fail. But, it's their game. They are all risking their own futures/finances, we are not.
It's fine. All I ask for moving forward is transparency. Are we expected to work together as a community or not? If so, in what areas? I thought this was one of them.
Kendaren said:Kilsin said:As I have previously stated, we have something in the works and will reveal it when we are ready too but I need to remind people that this is our game, built on our ideas with our vision guiding it, it is not open development, our Kickstarter failed and we took it to closed/private development and we are at a stage now that we are close to our first ever testing session, which is a big milestone for us and one we are very proud of, we have used people's ideas and suggestions over the years to tweak our own where we felt they would be useful but other than that, unless we specifically ask for feedback or ideas on things, what you are proposing is just something you would like to see, it doesn't necessarily mean that it is suited to our game or our vision or that the rest of the community wants to see it, which is why so many of those "Idea's/Suggestion" threads spiral into chaos, arguments over personal opinions and end up being closed, nearly every single one of them and for each of those ideas, we have our own already partially in place that we will reveal when the time is right.
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Longest sentence ever award? :)I am looking forward to contributing to / jumping on the hype train when it gets rolling! I am excited to see what you guys have in store for us when the time comes. We as a community still have word of mouth at this point. Spread the word! I am trying to rally my friends from my FFXI days.
Edit: phone emoji killed the rest of my post :(
Lol, I was really tired when I wrote that, I didn't realise how long it was, I used commas instead of full stops oops haha! :D
oneADseven said:I was under the impression that our community was encouraged to share ideas ... it wasn't long ago (April) when Brad shared the following comment:
"So our goal (shared with the dev team and community) is to think about systems like the Caravan system and any other potential systems/mechanics/features that help keep groups together, the community together, but then also keep the game challenging, travel important, etc. It's easy to simply say, well, a lot of the time, at least on the surface, those two goals are at odds with each other or incompatible. I don't accept that, however. I think if we're careful, think these things through (an opposed to just voicing opposition in a reactionary manner), think outside the box, and believe that most or all of these challenges are solvable, we can really break some new ground and end up with an MMO full of community, grouping, RL friends, guilds, etc. that is also rewarding and challenging as all heck.
You are encouraged as Brad said to share ideas on game mechanics, systems and features but you have to remember they are ideas and not something we will necessarily take on board and use, we already have a lot of those systems, mechanics and features implemented and they can't be changed until tested or we would never end up releasing the game.
I understand you want to help and I know that you think your ideas are good, just like everyone thinks their ideas are good but you seem to take things personally when anything of yours is addressed in a way that rules it out or explains why we can't use it, ultimately we decide what goes into our game and what could work with our already implemented systems, mechanics and features and as I stated above, we have something in store for this and we have a very experienced marketing team employed for things like this that will be put to use when we are ready for it to be released. So while we appreciate your idea, you need to understand that it is one of many ideas that we read, consider and sometimes move on from if we already have something better in place or something that needs testing first, it is never personal though.
This isn't a big conspiracy against the whole community, it is just an honest reply to address your idea and question about our systems and ability to manage it, you are essentially saying (without seeing what we have implemented) that AoC and all these other games have a great system that you also had an idea for, why don't we use it or something similar, as if we are not already aware and have not already thought about this while planning our game years ago and I really hope to see less of these posts when we move to the new game forums and away from the development forums because some of these posts read like they know better than our experience development team and although it probably isn't intended the team still needs to be respected and trusted to do what is best for our game.
So if you have an idea, feel free to share it and open it up to criticism from the community and the possibility that we may not take it on board for various reasons, there is still nothing wrong with sharing it or then excepting it and moving on, that is how great ideas come about, from brainstorming, constructive criticism and coming back bigger and stronger from rejection or failure, so instead of taking these posts of mine personally just take them with a grain of salt and understand that there is probably more going on behind the scenes than you realise and that we most likely have something already planned or implemented for it that you will get to experience soon in testing.
I hope this makes better sense anyway, my posts are raw and honest as I rarely sugar coat things for people out of respect, I want you all to know the truth and have the most accurate information possible so please don't misinterpret that honesty and rawness for rude or dismissive attitude as it couldn't be further from the truth, this community means the world to me and I would do almost anything for you folks. :)
Also, think big as there is nothing stopping people from starting their own company and creating their own game to implement all of these great ideas that they think they have, just like we have done with ours. This is how EQ, VG and Pantheon started.
Now, I see why Ashes of Creation's kickstarter did so well, it's just a marketing scam.
http://www.pcgamer.com/ashes-of-creation-kickstarter/
You don't even have to play the game to get cash kickbacks.
Slimy as all hell.
I had a conversation similar to this ..recently on Discord. The foundations are there, and the builders are still putting things together, there is an image..of where the team is going. I don't think that our ideas are ignored, but if they don't fit with how this game is proceeding, they don't fit. VR has been reading our ideas and suggestions since 2014. There have been a few revamps, changes of team, lore etc. The current team we have is the very best one. They know what they are doing, they are experienced developpers...and let's just allow them to surprise us with the end result..come the completion of the Pre Alpha design or document. I'll be there with bells on. :)
Cana
I think it would be a cool idea for people who are already backers. Hopefully they put something into place, but not like Ashes of Creation.
Something feels really off about that game. I think it's just all these kickstarter games now. They worry about how AWESOME it looks and how amazing it sounds, but then never implement their ideas into the game. And then you get crap like No Man's Sky -- where you were shown and promised trillions of planets to explore with their own unique animals and you can name your own planet and visit other people's planets. Last I heard, it came out to be a single player and anyone who backed that game was seriously disappointed. The game is dead now.
Or you get games like Star Citizen, where 5 years ago they had an amazing vision that people loved, which is why the kickstarter was so successful. Until 4 years later that vision has changed and they decided to put out a vote on whether to keep it in production. Of course all the people who only bought packages on the website had no issue waiting another year or so. Since they had only been waiting a year. But the original backers are going to be waiting another year on top of the 5? I know it takes games a while to develop. But you can't keep accepting money from people when you haven't even released a 100% completely developed game. I read into it a lot.. Not one single bit of that game is 100% done, and their community is a disaster!
Ashes of Creation mirrors some of these things I don't like or find odd. They promise all of these things but never show implements of it in the game and how it works in live time with some video on youtube. Those Nodes they described, sound SO awesome. It's like Civilization turned into a game. Except 1 City could have thousands of players to help defend it. And a caravan system. And different types of cities (Economic, Scientific, Military, Divine).
My point is, these kinds of games get so much attention, and then they flop. Making promises they can't keep. Or changing the game entirely. Ashes of Creation looks beautiful for pre pre pre alpha. They are basically neck and neck with Pantheon, but they have the graphics that attract an audience.
Sorry if this appears to be off-topic and that I seem to have rambled on. I've developed a hatred for games that get this kind of funding from the amount of people that seem interested. Everyone always turns up disappointed. Ashes of Creation isn't going to be even close to what Pantheon will be. They are MMO's but different. And Star Citizen doesn't even fit in this picture. I just find it funny when a game receives a total $151million for funding and the game hasn't been released 4 years later. With release dates set at 2014, 2015 and 2016 and now maybe a beta at the end of 2017. It's almost guaranteed to be pushed off again. Yet people still fund them. -rolls eyes-
I thank VR for not doing that to us. Would love what goals they have set for themselves, even if it's not guaranteed. But atleast they implement their ideas into the game and show us this content. They talked about how they wanted the whether to affect us and how they will have stuff to help us get through the whether. We actually got to see the acclimation system affect a character. Ashes of Creation has not shown how ANY of their ideas are going to be implemented in the game yet.
Anyway, back onto the topic of referrals. If you guys have a system being set up, is it almost done? Will it be available anytime this year? Is it intended for only current backers? Pre-alpha? Alpha? Beta?
Or should I save this kind of question for the next stream? I already have a list, not sure if they will be seen through the chat spam though.