Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Dual Specialization

    • 3237 posts
    May 12, 2017 5:55 PM PDT

    (Please check page 11 for an updated version.  Several classes were added and formatting has been improved.)

     

    We recently learned that monks will have two specializations; body & soul. While it hasn't been confirmed that every class will have dual specs to choose from, I think it would be fun to start brainstorming on how things might shake out across the board. This is all for fun and is purely speculation.

     

    Bard: Bards can play multiple songs in harmony by using their instrument(s) and voice. Mana Regen / Movement Speed are core class songs.


    Rhapsody: Empower your allies with music -- Hymn of Valor / Battle Cadence / Booming Jazz / Song of Stoneskin. Synergy extraordinaires, bards trained in the arts of Rhapsody focus on sustain. Elemental resistance (fire/ice/water/electric), defensive boons (parry/dodge), attribute modifiers (stamina/agility/wisdom), and stoneskin procs. They can also provide temporary alacrity buffs that reduce recast timers on abilities/spells used while the buff is up.


    Requiem: Demoralize your foes with melancholy and intimidation -- Dirge of Sorrow / Chant of War / Corruptive Crescendo / Final Eulogy. Bards trained in the arts of Requiem focus on offensive prowess. Haste / Spell Haste (Casting Speed) offensive boons (pierce/slash/crush/ranged), attribute modifiers (strength/dexterity/intelligence), and an in-combat rez. They can also provide valuable debuffs that temporarily reduce enemy resistances and defensive attributes (block/parry/dodge).

    Rites of Passage: Bard songs can be altered over time by seeking out various gypsy lyricists and renowned musicians spread across the world of Terminus. Advanced bards can blend a broader range of songs together, accentuating synergy potential in their groups.

     

    Cleric: Clerics offer the highest true healing output of any class and have exclusive access to "reactive healing" which are small heals that trigger each time an ally is attacked.


    Devout: Provide sanctuary for your allies with various forms of damage/cc immunity -- Sanctuary / Stoneskin / Absolution / Bastion. Clerics trained in the arts of Devout focus on damage mitigation, temporary immunities, and an extra potent in-combat rez. Sanctuary would provide temporary group immunity to various forms of CC or other non-damage impairments. Stoneskin would be a single target spell that can only be maintained on one player, and would provide a % based stoneskin proc. Absolution would be an instant cast 75% HP/Mana restorative in-combat rez with a long cooldown. Bastion would provide a high amount of armor class to the entire group.


    Curate: Purge debilitating debuffs with the added effect of a bonus heal on every successful cure -- Divine Aura / Elixer / Purify / Arcane Suppression. Clerics trained in the arts of Curate focus on group/raid cures, powerful attribute buffs, low cooldown single target cures (with bonus heal on successful cure), and temporary % based arcane/divine mitigation buffs. Curates would have the best curing kit of any healer (Purify, can use cross-group), a nice group attribute buff (Divine Aura, Max HP, Block%), Elixer (% based on-hit immunity for poison/disease/elemental impairments), and temporary group damage reduction vs arcane/divine damage.


    Rites of Passage: Clerics can learn to modify their spells by acquiring various celestial tomes that are spread around the world of Terminus. Their spells can be adjusted in ways such as removing portions of the arcane/divine/poison/disease aspect of their spells and focusing them into a single resist. IE, buff that provides 50 cure potency vs poison/disease debuffs instead changes to 100 poison or 100 disease, and can continue to modify the numbers back and forth as needed.

     

    Direlord:  Direlords manipulate the essence of living things.  They prefer to steal valuable lifeblood from their foes, but will sacrifice their pets for a surge of power when needed.

    Bloodletter:  Able to regulate the bloodflow of both allies and victims  --  Strangulate / Crimson Tempest / Devour Vitae / Bloodlust. Direlords trained in the arts of Bloodletter can shift the tide of battle by harnessing the essence of blood.  Reduce the effectiveness of heals on others by cutting off their circulation (Strangulate), Equalize the health pool of yourself and an ally with Crimson Tempest (can be used to save a squishy by sacrificing your HP, or save yourself by tapping into the HP of an ally), Feast on your enemies by consuming their corpse (Devour Vitae), and initiate a surge of lifetap procs for your group with Bloodlust.

    Nebulous:  Protect yourself and others by consuming the essence of darkness and dispatching it in the form of calculated shadows or void pockets  --  Shadowstep / Gloom / Void Aura / Twisted Nethers.  Force a missed attack on your shadow with shadowstep, channel darkness and cast shade on the battlefield with Gloom (AoE spell that demoralizes foes, reducing their stats), blind an enemy with pitch blackness using Void Aura (Single target blind, reduces melee accuracy) and unleash the claws of the underworld with Twisted Nethers (AoE movement speed slow against enemies)  --  Direlords trained in the arts of Nebulous can craft opportune blackouts.

    Rites of Passage:  Direlords can learn to increase their resistances vs poison and disease by collecting samples of "pure blood" that can be found around the world of Terminus.  This blood does not always take on a liquid form, but once analyzed, Direlords can imbue powerful antibiotics into their bloodstream.  While they can never grow truly impervious to poison or disease, well seasoned Direlords can offset a great deal of their effects by manipulating their very own toxin immunities to their favor.

     

    Druid:  Druids wield the power of nature and shapeshifting  --  they can call upon the elements themselves or even defy the laws of nature with their spells. 


    Warden:  Draw upon the lifeblood of the planet beneath your feet and use it's excellent power to nourish your allies, entangle your foes, or shapeshift yourself into one of the many sentient beings that form the pack of natural order  --  Regrowth / Shapeshift / Entanglement / Portal.  Regrowth offers the highest HoT output of any healer due to an extended duration and surge of raw healing effect on the first few ticks; the less health your comrade has, the bigger this bonus.  Shapeshift allows druids to take the form of a wolf, bear, or dryad, each of which have their own unique spell boosting flavors.  (Wolf helps with movement speed / offensive utility  --  Bear helps with max HP / defensive utility  --  Dryad is the healer form that sacrifices group utility for pure healing throughput.)  Entanglement allows you to root a single enemy, but any enemy rooted also has a medium-size area of effect movement speed slow around it.  Portal allows druids to bend space and time by opening a portal that allows comrades to warp to various druid rings in Terminus.  (They must be attuned with each druid ring before they can warp there.)

    TempestWhether it's conjuring storms or calming them, Tempests' are able to wield the dual powers of the elements -- Earth / Fire / Wind / Water. Each element can be toggled to either offensive or defensive, granting these wielders of weather a diverse kit to pull from in any situation. Earth: Barkskin (Defensive AC Buff, Single Target) / Weight of the World (Offensive heavy slow, single target) -- Fire: Heating Up (Defensive Group Fire Resist/Acclimation Buff) / Heat Exhaustion (Offensive AoE Cast Speed Debuff) -- Wind: Aery Gust (Defensive Group Beneficial Spell Casting Speed Buff) / Crippling Winds (Offensive AoE parry/block debuff) -- Water: Roaring Tide (Defensive Group Water/Ice Resist/Acclimation Buff) / Drown (Offensive Single Target Reuse Speed Debuff)

    Rites of Passage:  Druids can attune themselves to various Druid Rings spread around the world of Terminus.  The power of each druid ring has an impact zonewide, granting the druid a minor increase toward out of combat HP/Mana regen.  This effect stacks but only works while in zones that contain a druid ring that you are attuned to.

     

    Enchanter:
    Spellbinder:
    Phantasmist:

     

    Monkhttps://pantheonmmo.com/newsletter/2017_may_intro/
    style="color: #000000;">Body:  (See link above.)
    Soul:  (See link above.)

    Rites of Passage:  Monks can learn the forgotten arts of various fighting styles by seeking out master trainers spread across the world of Terminus.  These trainers instruct monks how to fully harness their inner chi and attain new levels of individual strength and melee prowess.  A well versed monk has a much easier time beating his foes into submission as each new attack or counterattack learned opens up a new link in their chain of potentially lethal combos.

     

    Necromancer:
    Lich:
    Nosferatu:

     


    Paladin:
    Sentinel:
    Oathsworn:

     

    Ranger:
    Deadeye:
    Forester:

     

    Rogue:
    Assassin:
    Marauder:

     

    Shaman:
    Oracle:
    Thaumaturge:

     

    Summoner:
    Conjuror:
    Evoker:

     

    Warrior:  Warriors train for forceful interaction, resolved to challenge those who threaten or oppose them.  They sacrifice themselves for the good of others.


    Martial:  Reveal yourself tactically and lay waste to those who dare to advance  --  Maneuver / Own Fear / Iron Will / Endure.  Maneuver grants a temporary boost to avoidance that incrementally diminishes per successful dodge/parry/riposte until the effect wears off.  Own Fear gives you two options on how you can command fear (shares cooldown); you can either gain temporary immunity yourself or use it to terrorize a foe (has a chance to paralyze.)  Iron Will grants increased threat generation and prevents all applications of stun, slow (attack speed and movement speed), and paralysis for a limited time.  (Cannot be used while stunned or paralyzed.)  Endure allows you to generate a large shield that absorbs the next attack that would hit for more than 20% of your max HP.


    Warlord:  Command the battlefield using a combination of physical presence and combat fervor  --  Battle Trance / Intercept / Warcry / Capture.  Battle Trance grants bonus attack speed and threat generation for every successful melee attack against a new opponent (Caps at 5 and resets back to 1 on the next attack after 5).  Intercept causes you to rush to the aid of an ally, absorbing 25% of the next attack against them and increasing threat generation toward their attacker.  Warcry grants a temporary increase to all combat stats (str/sta/agi/dex) relative to the amount of damage taken in the last 5 seconds.  Capture allows you to claim a small area as your own, rooting and lowering the attack speed of yourself and all enemies in range.

    Rites of Passage:  Warriors crave conquest and adventure and so they seek out various victory mounds that are spread throughout the lands of Terminus.  For every mound they plant their banner in, their confidence grows, increasing their max HP.

     

    Wizard:
    Arcanist:
    Warlock:

     

    (Will continue to update as time permits.  Body & Soul doesen't really sound like a specialized "class" name, but rather a "path" name, in which case plenty of the placeholder names here would need to change.  As someone who will be maining a warrior, I think it was a bad idea to do these in alphabetical order!)


    This post was edited by
    oneADseven at February 16, 2018 2:42 PM PST
    • 432 posts
    May 12, 2017 8:17 PM PDT

    I don’t have anything in terms of names, but I really love your creativity. You have a great start! My own playful thoughts just have idea’s of how specs would play out. Yes I puttered out and got lazy at the end.

     

    Cleric, healer

    • Purity = Focuses on healing even better
    • Wrath = Sacrifice some healing for more offensive based (Ranged/melee spell damage) and more control and CC

     

    Paladin, tank

    • Temperance – Tank essentials with offensive and defensive buffs.
    • Salvation – Sacrifice offense and some defense to become more of a support. party off-healer/buffer. Defenses lost are made up for by self and party healing capability.

     

    Warrior, tank

    • Relentless – DPS
    • Defiance – TANK

     

    Dire Lord, Tank

    • Hellbent – DPS
    • Blackguard – Tank

     

    Ranger, DPS

    • Caretaker – pet focused, CC
    • Marksman – DPS

     

    Rogue

    • DPS
    • CC

     

    Monk

    • DPS
    • Off-tank

     

    Summoner

    • CC
    • Off-tank  (This could be REALLY cool)

     

     

    Enchanter

    • CC
    • DPS

     

    Wizard

    • CC
    • DPS

     

    Druid, healer

    • Healer
    • DPS

     

    Shaman, healer

    • Healer
    • Off-tank

     

     

     -Todd

     

    • 73 posts
    May 12, 2017 9:40 PM PDT
    I've also been thinking about this. I'm unsure how role bending the specialization will be. Monk might be a bad example because off tank could mean temp buffs to stay alive while a main mob is down, but sacrificing some other utilities. It may not and probably isn't going to be a true tank. That being said, I think we will see a few classes with a lot more nuanced variations. Instead of moving from druid heals to druid dps, I think they will add some temp buffs or spells allowing folks to edge one way without losing their class identity.

    However, I'm really interested in mages having a special for non traditional abilities like off tanking pets or enchanter psychic healing. More like eq2 emergency spells not a class reversal
    • 248 posts
    May 13, 2017 2:14 AM PDT

    RANGER

    In untamed regions, the Ranger is a versatile and ferocious warrior, united with the land and animals he communes with.


    Perhaps ranger could be bow/swords as one speciallzation (ferocious warrior). Alternating between ranged and dodging in to use close up mele. And a shapeshifting spacialization (united with the land and animals) where the ranger can turn into different animals with different abilities.

    -sorte.

    • 119 posts
    May 13, 2017 2:18 AM PDT

    i just wonder, what's the difference from specialisation to a different class? just that i can switch from one to the other? (so everyone is more versatile?) or are specialisation choices permanent? in that case why not just make 2 classes instead of one with 2 specialisations?

    • 483 posts
    May 13, 2017 2:54 AM PDT

    @tehtawd

    I don't think specs will change your role, as in a tank can become a DPS, or a full healer becoming an hybrid DPS, specs will just change the way you play, not the role you have withing a group.

    I.e. A Shaman might have a "hexer" or a "elementalist" specs, the hexer spec focus on offensive debuffs like slows, criples and stat reduction, while the elementalist spec focus helpfull buffs for the party, and direct healing.

    The shaman roles stays the same but they can speciallize in different parts of their class, the class role doesn't change. I believe this will also be the case for all other classes, their roles stays the same but the playstyle will differ.

    • 119 posts
    May 13, 2017 3:22 AM PDT

    jpedrote said:I don't think specs will change your role, as in a tank can become a DPS, or a full healer becoming an hybrid DPS, specs will just change the way you play, not the role you have withing a group.

    I.e. A Shaman might have a "hexer" or a "elementalist" specs, the hexer spec focus on offensive debuffs like slows, criples and stat reduction, while the elementalist spec focus helpfull buffs for the party, and direct healing.

    The shaman roles stays the same but they can speciallize in different parts of their class, the class role doesn't change. I believe this will also be the case for all other classes, their roles stays the same but the playstyle will differ.

    that would be great! but the may newletters infos concerning the monk are clearly role changing:

    The Monk is envisioned not as just a fantastic pulling class, but also as capable melee DPS, short term crowd control and as a suitable offtank.

    • 483 posts
    May 13, 2017 3:31 AM PDT

    letsdance said:

    that would be great! but the may newletters infos concerning the monk are clearly role changing:

    The Monk is envisioned not as just a fantastic pulling class, but also as capable melee DPS, short term crowd control and as a suitable offtank.

    That's the role of a monk, he's a offtank puller, so all of those things fit the class. 

    But a cleric becoming an hybrid dps does not fit, (unless it's against undead).

    • 137 posts
    May 13, 2017 3:51 AM PDT
    I'm excited to read that the monk can specialize in two ways. However, from what I have read, there really isn't any ways to spec a certain way. All I thought was that you could simply switch out abilities on your ability bar to determine the way you'd like to play in a certain scenario. So, a monk could still do either or depending on the abilities that are equipped..unless this has changed?
    • 137 posts
    May 13, 2017 4:03 AM PDT
    I also forgot to mention that I loved the way EQOA did specialization. You couldn't just pick a way to specialize but you had to work toward it with your CM (class mastery) points. You needed certain AA abilities, which were acquired from your CMs, for prerequisites to open up your class mastery specialization
    • 3237 posts
    May 13, 2017 10:40 AM PDT
    I loved the EQOA class mastery system. You could specialize based on race, archetype, or class. I had an Ogre Juggernaut and Halfling Deputy. It was so freaking cool. An AA system makes all content relevant. When the first expansion is released, I hope there is no increase to level cap. Just more content and a deep AA system. That would be epic!
    • 137 posts
    May 13, 2017 11:53 AM PDT
    Oh heck yes!!! I loved the options EQOA had. And I hope for the same when the expansion hits, no increase to level cap, just harder content and more AAs!!
    • 1778 posts
    May 14, 2017 6:59 PM PDT

    I liked this idea in general in the Bard thread too. But I will say as a Bard I would rather the focus be more something like this:

    Swashbuckler - Focus more on melee and self buffs

    Dirge - Focus more on DoTs, debuffs, and sonic damage

    Minstrel - Focus more on Resource Regeneration, Buffs, Utility, and CC

     

    Assuming the Devs do go with Class Paths.

    • 1714 posts
    May 14, 2017 7:03 PM PDT

    Specialization is an ironic term, because what it actually means is watering down. I hope to hell they don't have an post character selectoin class changes. 

    • 1618 posts
    May 14, 2017 7:14 PM PDT

    Krixus said:

    Specialization is an ironic term, because what it actually means is watering down. I hope to hell they don't have an post character selectoin class changes. 

    I have to disagree. To me, it's the opposite of being watered down. Not sure where you get that idea.

    • 1778 posts
    May 14, 2017 7:23 PM PDT

    @Krixus

    Im of mixed feelings on the subject. To a certain degree I like it, but I also see that with limited skill bar there might not be a need to have specializations as that limit already makes choices important.

    Either way, I hope this thread doesnt devolve in opinions on if it should or shouldnt be a thing. If you feel strongly about it, make a thread about that.

    • 279 posts
    May 14, 2017 8:19 PM PDT

    Still on the fence about this, but I liked the stances paladins and clerics had in Vanguard.

    Druid

           Force of Nature: climate based damage, whirlwinds, hurricanes, lightning strikes, wildfires, blizzards, climate based powers

           Stream of life: ensnarement/entrapment, regens, plant/animal based powers (lycanthropy? Like in AD&D)

    • 1714 posts
    May 14, 2017 8:24 PM PDT

    Krixus said:

    Specialization is an ironic term, because what it actually means is watering down. I hope to hell they don't have an post character selectoin class changes. 

     

    24 classes or 12. It's really simple. 

    • 279 posts
    May 15, 2017 6:02 AM PDT

    Objectively speaking what's wrong with 24 classes.

     

    • 3237 posts
    May 15, 2017 6:22 AM PDT
    24 classes worked great in EQ2. Wonderful example of how you can have multiple flavors of warrior, bard, shaman, cleric, enchanter, druid, etc.
    • 279 posts
    May 15, 2017 6:53 AM PDT

    Hell we don't know if all classes are getting dual specs anyways, maybe some get specs, some get stances, etc similar to Vanguard.

    • 137 posts
    May 15, 2017 7:15 AM PDT
    I'm still confused on speccing. Is it a choice or rather switching out your abilities on the ability bar to play a specific way? Or we can specialize a certain way with AAs? I don't think it's been confirmed, this is just speculation yes?
    • 66 posts
    May 15, 2017 7:27 AM PDT

    Sunmistress said:

    Hell we don't know if all classes are getting dual specs anyways, maybe some get specs, some get stances, etc similar to Vanguard.

    Didn't every class that got spec's in vanguard also have stances? The stances were unique based on the spec for the character i played at least.

    Wig said: I'm still confused on speccing. Is it a choice or rather switching out your abilities on the ability bar to play a specific way? Or we can specialize a certain way with AAs? I don't think it's been confirmed, this is just speculation yes?

    I don't foresee being able to change specializations easily, if at all, each specializaiton likely has its own set of abilities and you have to choose which set you want access to for your character. Stances are something that will probably be changable in battle, as they likely just offer different passive bonuses, not access to different sets of abilities. This is just my speculation of course, waiting for further confirmation from the devs about it.


    This post was edited by torveld at May 15, 2017 7:29 AM PDT
    • 279 posts
    May 15, 2017 7:46 AM PDT

    torveld said:

    Sunmistress said:

    Hell we don't know if all classes are getting dual specs anyways, maybe some get specs, some get stances, etc similar to Vanguard.

    Didn't every class that got spec's in vanguard also have stances? The stances were unique based on the spec for the character i played at least.

    Wig said: I'm still confused on speccing. Is it a choice or rather switching out your abilities on the ability bar to play a specific way? Or we can specialize a certain way with AAs? I don't think it's been confirmed, this is just speculation yes?

    I don't foresee being able to change specializations easily, if at all, each specializaiton likely has its own set of abilities and you have to choose which set you want access to for your character. Stances are something that will probably be changable in battle, as they likely just offer different passive bonuses, not access to different sets of abilities. This is just my speculation of course, waiting for further confirmation from the devs about it.

    No

    Clerics paladins  warriors and other classes had just stances I can't remember how DK worked

    Monks rangers rogues (iiirc) had specs (2?)

    Shaman had 3 totems or paths can't remember the exact term it's too early.

    Not all classes had specs not all classes had stances.

     

    • 3237 posts
    May 15, 2017 8:15 AM PDT

    The basis of this thread is indeed speculative.  I believe specialization is being considered for each class, but I think what we have seen with monks so far may not represent the scope of specialization across the board.  Monks appear to have a DPS spec, and an off-tank spec, allowing them to dip into another archetype.  This will likely be the exception, not the rule.  I think Body & Soul fit the monk class nicely but hope that the cross-archetype specializations are very limited.  I hope warriors get 2 tanking specs rather than 1 DPS/1 Tank.  We shall see!  I think druids may be another class that gets a cross-archetype specialization.  Healing / CC-DPS, perhaps?  Maybe paladins will get a tank / off-heal spec?  The more flavor each class has, the better IMO ... but would definitely like to see these flavors stick to the original archetype planned for each class as much as possible.

     

    *Edit  --  some classes are natural hybrids, though.  In these cases, it makes sense for there to be a specialization that touches on each aspect of them being a hybrid.  Monk/Paladin/Druid/Ranger all have history as being a hybrid class of sorts.  I suppose warriors did as well but hope that won't be the case in Pantheon.  The "control" element of the quaternity seems to be the least represented so far ... I think druid could fit in nicely to have a role here.


    This post was edited by oneADseven at May 15, 2017 8:20 AM PDT