Forums » The Enchanter

Shamans get Clarity?!?

    • 17 posts
    May 8, 2017 3:46 PM PDT

    Watching the stream and going off of old school EQ rules, Shamans had the following utility buffs:

    Better than an Enchanter

    • Slowing combat speed
    • Run faster (Spirit of the Wolf)
    • Heals
    • DPS by FAR!

    Just below an Enchanter

    • Increasing combat speed (Haste line)

    Both have root, neither have snare. Enchanters have 2 skills that made them unique and valuable to a group / raid. 

    1. Mana regen (Clarity line)
    2. CC (Mez lines)
    3. Optional if you want to add in Charm lines.

    These were skills that were shared with a Bard but on a much lesser level. 

    Taking this info into Pantheon, I was HIGHLY disapointed with the reviel that the one class I fought against in groups for a spot, will not be gaining the one buff unique to an Enchanter...  When the hell did Shamans gain a Clarity line? If Shamans have a Clarity line that is only 1 step below an Enchanter but can slow better, offer more dps (much more reliable than a Charm), haste, AND heal; there is almost no need for an Enchanter. Groups will be working with monks or other pacify pullers to eliminate the need for an Enchanter in a group. Enchanters were rare in EQ as it was, and a good Enchanter was like a unicorn... The only thing that was harder to find than an Enchanter was a Shadow Kinight. Given the nugget about Shamans getting a Clarity line, I'm truly hoping that Enchanters can out dps a Shaman by a lot (like Ranger levels) without a charm running or they are going to become the most rare class actively played in Pantheon. Give Shamans a Pacify line like Clerics and Enchanters had in EQ, and they will take the roles of CC, Heals, Puller, and Utility all in one. Very little info has been released about Enchanters as of yet, but I feel that the Clarity line is a mistake. In EQ, they were the only class able to use Apoth as a skill as well. If this remains and the Clarity line isn't removed or dropped 2 levels below an equalivant lvl Enchanter with some boosts to an Enchanter, it's going to scare a lot of people off from playing the class. 

    I started EQ off as a Druid. I switched to Enchanter because I was finding it harder to gain a group when competing with Clerics and Shamans as well as every group out there begging for an enchanter. I was never asked to join a group as anything but a utility slot and emergency CC on a bad pull. My DPS was comparable with a Cleric (who were the worst dps in a group) and I was yelled at for playing the Charm game on a group grind. The tank would pull 95% of the time and pull mini trains just to give me something to do (or because they were lazy). It was extreamly rare to have a shaman AND an enchanter in the same group. I beg of you VR, make Enchanters a viable DPS option when not on CC duty or eliminate the Clarity line from Shamans. No one wants an Enchanter without Breeze and if Breeze is an option from someone that can also heal, we will be left to play catch up when people realize that we are needed for raids and pretty much nothing else..

    Rant complete.


    This post was edited by Smallchange at May 8, 2017 3:49 PM PDT
    • 1662 posts
    May 8, 2017 5:13 PM PDT

    Shaman's getting clarity line isn't set in stone.  They're just testing ideas with the classes.  You'll likely see other abilities get experimented on with classes.  Also we don't know yet what enchanters are going to get.  Enchanter's prime ability will be crowd control, and if you noticed from the stream, crowd control was a life or death situation on a great majority of the pulls.

    I do understand your worry, I played an enchanter from day 1 in EQ, and nobody wanted one until they reached level 29 and got clarity (Breeze was added to enchanters later in the game).  But we're still in early testing, and they want to see how things work out between different classes.  I'm sure when the VIPs get in and start testing things out, and then the alpha and beta testers, they'll be tuning classes, moving abilities around, adding and removing abilities, etc.

    • 4415 posts
    May 8, 2017 9:10 PM PDT

    kelenin said:

    Shaman's getting clarity line isn't set in stone.  They're just testing ideas with the classes.  You'll likely see other abilities get experimented on with classes.  Also we don't know yet what enchanters are going to get.  Enchanter's prime ability will be crowd control, and if you noticed from the stream, crowd control was a life or death situation on a great majority of the pulls.

    I do understand your worry, I played an enchanter from day 1 in EQ, and nobody wanted one until they reached level 29 and got clarity (Breeze was added to enchanters later in the game).  But we're still in early testing, and they want to see how things work out between different classes.  I'm sure when the VIPs get in and start testing things out, and then the alpha and beta testers, they'll be tuning classes, moving abilities around, adding and removing abilities, etc.

    Again, you are correct, kelenin. The frequent adding and removing of abilities to different classes will probably be very common, so we might as well just get used to it and go with the flow, rather than getting hung up on every detail and treating it like it's permanent. There's nothing wrong with experimenting to see what works and what doesn't. They are looking at a lot bigger picture. Bit it's super easy for them to just yank an ability if it does indeed upset the balance, once you can actually get in the game and test it. That's the whole point of bringing people in for testing. It's not expected to be balanced right away. So in Pre-Alpha, rather than expecting to just play the game exactly as we would on launch day, we can help to make it balanced. You can actively try to find imbalances and give feedback and they will take it into consideration. Most things are not very indicative of how they'll be even a few months from now.

    • 54 posts
    May 9, 2017 8:14 PM PDT

    Smallchange said:

    Watching the stream and going off of old school EQ rules, Shamans had the following utility buffs:

    Better than an Enchanter

    • Slowing combat speed
    • Run faster (Spirit of the Wolf)
    • Heals
    • DPS by FAR!

     

    Normally I compare ENC VS Bard (utility) and Shaman Vs Druid (heal/sowers).

     

    Shaman

     

    Shaman is able to debuff encounters and they LAND THEIR SLOW better than ENC on the resist table THAT IS WHERE SHAMAN SHINE. 

    Shaman have acces to ogre class , so they have acces to stun immunity on a caster oh great !

    Shaman can heal overtime, really efficient healer for group heals and caster, not meant to main heal a main tank like a cleric would with CH.

    Shaman DPS is actually slower in EQ than ENC that does Charm.

    Shaman does fight with ROT DoT, slow DPS but kills 4 or so at the times.

     

    Shaman Buff Melee DPS by lots ! Not only their haste but their DEX buff , some talisman that add weapon damage proc ect.

     

    Enchanter

    They deal more damage because of their charm specially if they pick the right mob (rogue) and position him to do backstab with haste or with good lifedraw or stun proc wep.

    They have a better haste to increase melee dps.

    They bring so much mana in a party that caster can burn their mana so "DPS mode activated".

    (Right now Enchanter in a party would increase BY MUCH more dps than a Shaman would)

    They bring more control shaman only have acces to root, enchanter has all of them , stun , fear , mez , lull ect..

    They can slow everywhere in the game but not meant to slow the big named or this raid overthere , shaman is.

     

    Enchanter is extremelly powerful ... but 1 error and you are dead. Your spells have stupid amount of HATE and tanks will love that... You have the lowest hp class in the game with the highest aggro spell in the game. 

    Both really fun class too much different to compare, one is a healer , one is a utility , they both have slows.


    This post was edited by Nore at May 9, 2017 9:04 PM PDT
    • 28 posts
    June 17, 2017 2:38 AM PDT

    Yeah, as was said, nothing is set in stone. But I imagine enchanters may very well get both slow and haste, as they had in Everquest. Possibly a Clarity line of spells (perhaps even a better one than shamans?) and of course the charm, which was a major dps increase in the classic Everquest (since mobs hit really hard).

    I'm confident that the enchanter class will be as fun and challenging as enchanters would like it to be, whether or not shamans get increased mana regen. On the other hand, we did not see any shaman hp->mana conversion going on in the videos, and I don't recall seeing the shamans cast haste either, so maybe we shouldn't get too used to Everquest classes. But all this is irrelevant before beta, or even release, since everything may be subject to change.

    • 158 posts
    August 19, 2017 10:15 AM PDT

    Shamans should not get a Clarity line of spells. Or it should at least be self only with detrimental effects like Cannibalize.


    This post was edited by Keiiek at August 19, 2017 10:17 AM PDT
    • 69 posts
    February 29, 2020 9:19 AM PST
    I agree shamans should not have any clarity line of spell it’s an iconic spell of the enchanter class.
    • 498 posts
    February 29, 2020 11:11 AM PST

    SugarWood said: I agree shamans should not have any clarity line of spell it’s an iconic spell of the enchanter class.

    They should really make the date on posts be in larger text :D

    This thread is going on 3 yrs. old, and your wish seems to be granted already. Enchanters have a mana-regen buff - Enshire's Faint Whisper- and a spellcasting haste buff - Illusion Graft: Acuity. Shamans have neither.

    How's that for service?

    :)

     


    This post was edited by Jothany at February 29, 2020 11:12 AM PST
    • 8 posts
    March 9, 2020 7:37 PM PDT

    Keep in mind each class has to add something useful, if not unique, to a group.

    No single class should be essential, nor should any be disposable.

    The question is: What is the major role a class fills in a party/group oriented game?

    DPS?  Healing?  Crowd Control?  Tankage?

    Many classes should be able to perform multiple roles in a limited fashion, and perhaps "jack of all trades" can be a viable role.  But most classes should excel at a single role, with a very limited ability to perform in other roles.

    Most "modern" MMOs are designed with solo play in mind.  And to my thinking that's their major weakness.  If you're looking for solo content play a single-player game not an MMO!

    ##########

    On the subject of chanters their role is crowd control, not DPS, not healing, not tankage.  They SHOULD NOT have abilities that make any other class superflous.  The SHOLD NOT have the ability to solo content of their own level.  But just because another class has a "lesser" ability (i.e. a limited clarity spell) doesn't, shouldn't, make a chanter a disposable class in a group, because the primary role they're designed around they do best, hands down.

    • 390 posts
    March 15, 2020 9:20 PM PDT

    This is odd because in EQ, in beta they were considering giving a Clarity spell to Shamans as well as Enchanters (Enchanter's didn't have clarity until a few months after release). THey eventually opted out from giving Shaman's Clarity but this is the first I heard of them considering it for Shamans in Pantheon. It would make zero sense.

    As for their overall buffs...

    Now, that's as of recent streams and the tooltip information is subject to change. But overall, Enchanter slow plus our damage reduction spell, our melee and spell haste and add to that our long term silence, mana regeneration, mana replenishment and ability to CC and even charm for added DPS, there really is no comparison. 

    • 8 posts
    March 20, 2020 4:40 AM PDT

    Janus said:

    As for their overall buffs...

    Now, that's as of recent streams and the tooltip information is subject to change. But overall, Enchanter slow plus our damage reduction spell, our melee and spell haste and add to that our long term silence, mana regeneration, mana replenishment and ability to CC and even charm for added DPS, there really is no comparison. 

    Looks good to me!