Forums » The Bard

Informal Bard Poll

    • 527 posts
    May 22, 2017 10:39 PM PDT

    Amsai - only the S?  Seems a bit light for you.  How about putting the S u p another p o r and t in support?

    • 2007 posts
    May 23, 2017 6:57 AM PDT

    @Kumu

    Was trying to keep it modest, but yup SUPPORT!!

    • 2 posts
    May 23, 2017 7:45 PM PDT

    As an old school eq bard, I always loved pulling, general utility and the fact that we did more for others in the group than ourselves (rarely had trouble finding a group because of this).  No enchanter in the group, we could cover crowd control; no slower, had a so-so slow; etc.  

    • 20 posts
    June 3, 2017 11:19 AM PDT
    Three traits I find super improtant are
    1. Out of combat buffs
    2. In-combat party buffs
    3. The ability to be able to solo if I decide to just grind some XP by myself
    • 15 posts
    July 15, 2017 6:27 PM PDT

    I'll admit I have never really played a bard in EQ but I find it to be very interesting of a class as an Idea, probably the only other class outside of a ranger (if Archery) I'd really want to play. 

    To me as a "hard core" raider and by that i mean I have always been end game geared... Things important to me to group with a bard in a raid or group are:

    1: Group buffs/utility. Magic damage bonus, melee damage bonus, speed bonus, tanking abilities bonuses and slows

    2: Out of combat utility. Movement, invizo, mana and hp regen

    3: Puller. Minor mez/CC abilities/fades

    Bard were really the only class that used Utility as their primary use to make the class what it is. In EQ no class had real utility that mattered anywhere near what a bard could dish out, and because of that Bards were OP when it came to Utility. Bards utility worked despite their huge lack of DPS/heals or lack of ability to tank because it was just so useful.

     

    That's my take =)


    This post was edited by Avory at July 15, 2017 6:28 PM PDT
    • 175 posts
    July 15, 2017 6:34 PM PDT

    Kumu said:

    Amsai - only the S?  Seems a bit light for you.  How about putting the S u p another p o r and t in support?

     

    Am"support"ai?

    • 2007 posts
    July 18, 2017 10:05 AM PDT
    @Fancy

    You cracked the code!!!!!!

    /mind blown
    • 148 posts
    August 6, 2017 12:34 PM PDT

    1) Support - The primary function of a Bard in my mind, buffs for party members ranging from short duration in combat bosts to long duration buffs to throw on newbies in town and a party/raid run speed buff to go cross-country), possibly limited suplemental healing (regen/HoT type stuff, mana battery).

    2) Control - A secondary speciality of a Bard, not as good as an Enchanter but able to fill the role for a party in a pinch (e.g. if there are 2 Bards in zone but not Enchanters online).  AOE stuns/snare+DoT, single target mez, etc.  This probably includes some pulling/kiting abilities by their nature.

    3) Out of Combat Utility - Singing at a camp to regen mana/health faster to reduce downtime, out of combat run speed group buff, even some limited solo friendly skills like a weak form of Stealth/Sneak (ala Rogue/Ranger/Druids).  Things to help out at Camp or in town or exploring.

    .

    As an aside, some basic weaponskills with "Bard type weapons" - mainly thinking shortsword, daggers/throwing daggers/hidden daggers, shortbow), but mostly for soloing and not so much for group play (I made a thread about this, mainly that solo/field Bards might use singing to augment their weapon attacks while group bards would sheath their weapons and use an instrument to empower and amplify their songs/add AOE components, etc rendering the weaponskills useless but increasing their Support capability.  Also note throwing daggers/shortbow could help them in kiting if kiting is considered a kind of role.

    • 2007 posts
    August 11, 2017 10:38 AM PDT
    @Renathras

    Another strong supporter for support Bards I see!.

    I like the idea of throwing daggers used in kiting too.
    • 20 posts
    December 3, 2017 2:43 AM PST

    I really just want them to clone EQ bards, honestly if there had been that statement up front; they'd have got a LOT of money from me. Take the abilities of the other classes, tone them back, give us tons of them and have them synergize with each other and the other main role abilities.

    1. Group/Raid Synergy through support (make everyone better than they could be without a bard regardless of activity).

    2. Speed man. Gotta go fast. Zoom Zoom.

    3. Skill based. I'm fine with a melody type system but make manual twisting just a bit better when you need/want to step up your game. Just no afk melody, the bard should interact periodically to keep up his performence.


    This post was edited by diableri at December 3, 2017 2:44 AM PST
    • 34 posts
    December 5, 2017 2:00 PM PST

    In-combat buffing / defense / offense.

    Out-of-combat buffing / health & energy recovery.

    Shortbow, dagger, or shortsword proficiency.

     

    In all honesty I feel that a bard should not be a combat-strong class.  I feel that buffs are their primary use, with minor combat ability.  Therefore, bards, by nature, are a group-centric class, not necessarily meant to solo anything more than a rat. ;)

    • 2007 posts
    December 5, 2017 2:49 PM PST

    @Diableri

    Good stuff man. And of course we have to have the Zoom Zoom. And I mean the fastest Zoom Zoom.

     

     

    @Merrick

    In all honesty I feel that a bard should not be a combat-strong class.  I feel that buffs are their primary use, with minor combat ability.  Therefore, bards, by nature, are a group-centric class, not necessarily meant to solo anything more than a rat. ;)

    This! So this!

    • 99 posts
    December 5, 2017 4:59 PM PST

    A) Buffs/Support

    B) Battlefield Control (i.e., AoE snags/hazards/fog, etc....)

    C) Utility, utility, utility.

     

    I agree a Bard should be able to hold their own in combat, but only at least until help arrives.

     

    • 2007 posts
    December 6, 2017 9:08 AM PST

    @Nightsong

    Yet another support Bard! I like the fog idea. Give them unique spells to set them apart from just being Enchanter lite. It sometimes just becomes too easy to just copy things like Charm.

    • 527 posts
    December 9, 2017 6:00 AM PST

    By the way Amsai, this was such a successful thread you really should one day start a FORMAL bard poll, where we all have to post images of ourselves in tuxedos (black tie baby!) or ball gowns with our answers.

    Silk cummerbunds optional, no frilly shirts please (unless you have a tux left over from the 80s, or can prove you are a pirate). Remember to make your group look good - while looking good! 


    This post was edited by Kumu at December 9, 2017 6:01 AM PST
    • 99 posts
    December 9, 2017 6:21 PM PST

    Kumu said:

    By the way Amsai, this was such a successful thread you really should one day start a FORMAL bard poll, where we all have to post images of ourselves in tuxedos (black tie baby!) or ball gowns with our answers.

    Silk cummerbunds optional, no frilly shirts please (unless you have a tux left over from the 80s, or can prove you are a pirate). Remember to make your group look good - while looking good! 

    Hey, now.  I'm Rogue/Tank here.  I was only commenting from ther perspective of how I'd like my party Bard to be able to help.  No bow ties, unless I can hide a vial of sleep poison behind it.

    • 8 posts
    December 22, 2017 5:47 PM PST

    1. Versatility - Whether it's buffing, weaponry, magic using, or other support, bards are the ultimate jack-of-all-trades. You should be able to say; "well, we didn't get a wizard/rogue/fighter/cleric but at least we have a bard. They should be capable of filling the role that's missing, to some extent, anything short of main tanking/healing.

    2. Buffing - They should have the best darn buffs in the game. This is because even when you have the perfect party, you have your rogue and wizard et.c., the bard should still be best at something and earn a spot just for that.

    3. Colour - Yeah! Just a fun and colourful class to play. I like to play bard sometimes for the sheer roleplaying value, plus I'm a musician myself.

    • 81 posts
    January 5, 2018 10:48 AM PST

    I'm 100 % for mass buffs and ccs. I don't see a bard as a puller tho : why would a guy playing the lute, even with some magic involved, initiate a combat. I view it more as a support class, staying behind the lines and using buffs and utilities.

    • 2007 posts
    January 18, 2018 9:19 AM PST

    Gideon said:

    I'm 100 % for mass buffs and ccs. I don't see a bard as a puller tho : why would a guy playing the lute, even with some magic involved, initiate a combat. I view it more as a support class, staying behind the lines and using buffs and utilities.

     

    My best friend was playing the guitar a little loud the other day and initiated combat from his wife. Does that count? Hehe

     

    @Kumu 

    I am so glad this thread has gone so well. Maybe I can start another when we get new forums.

    • 3422 posts
    January 18, 2018 9:45 AM PST

    Gideon said:

    I'm 100 % for mass buffs and ccs. I don't see a bard as a puller tho : why would a guy playing the lute, even with some magic involved, initiate a combat. I view it more as a support class, staying behind the lines and using buffs and utilities.

    I almost kind of imagine a jester-like bard that pretends to be a lost adventurer, only to lure unsuspecting creatures back to his group. Picture this:

    A group of orcs are sitting around a campfire in the woods. Suddenly, they see a bard prancing through the forest some 50 ft away, playing his lute and whistling a tune. He's very aware of where he is, but pretends to not see the orcs. An oblivious man in tight pants singing and dancing through the forest at night. The orcs look at each other and are like wtf? and then realize that this is an easy opportunity for a quick meal. A few of the orcs get up to tackle the bard, but the bard turns around and high tails it out of there, at a rate of speed only some form of magic could provide. He then leads the orcs right into an ambush that his group set up a short distance away.

    Idk why that's the first thing I think of, but I find it very amusing. I don't think bards should be reduced to just sitting in the back, singing songs to inspire courage. Unfortunately a lot of games have simplified it to that. But if you look back at the roots of the class in DnD, they're really multifaceted, including being quite mischievous sometimes.

    • 20 posts
    January 18, 2018 9:58 AM PST

    Can't imagine playing a bard that doesn't pull honestly. It's nice to have a couple of classes to fulfill each role when the king of that role isn't available.

    Whenever our groups or raids got into trouble, it was bards and monks that pulled the iron out of the fire. We were lucky to have an incredible raid puller monk that I grouped with constantly. Whenever things went sidewsys, she'd say, "time for stupid bard tricks" and I'd run off, kite, DA, fade, highsun, charm or whatever each situation took to pull off.

    I remember kiting the entire tiny spider population in PoAir the first couple of days it was open for like 20 minutes as we did a full recovery from a wipe. Wasn't fun but it was definitely funny. While they ressed, rebuffed built up a couple AE groups and I brought them right to the AE group, popped whatever our frontal 100% DR was and our AE brass damage that chewed mana.

    Just make sure the bard still get the, "stupid bard tricks" and I'll be a happy camper.

    • 2007 posts
    January 18, 2018 10:34 AM PST

    @Baz

    They better have some really spiffy /dance emotes!

    @Diableri

    I love "stupid Bard tricks"!

    • 1 posts
    January 25, 2018 3:33 PM PST

    1. Buffs

    2. Selo's Accelerando (and invis, levitate, +faction, find corpse, illusions etc.)

    3. Charm / CC

     

    I played endgame instrument classes in pretty much every mmo. 

     

    Since the logical choice of comparison is EQ, I raided end-game, and also solo'd things that should have been impossible to solo.  I want to be useful to a raid (resists, manasong, haste etc.), but also be able to solo on my off-time.  The utility of getting around the map, and general quality-of-life improvements bard has are also important to me.

     

    When a bard flew by me with selos, I deleted my paladin and re-rolled.  No regrets.


    This post was edited by Naurhir at January 25, 2018 3:34 PM PST
    • 2 posts
    January 31, 2018 9:46 AM PST

    NoobieDoo said:

    [blockquote]Amsai said: Nice stuff guys. Appreciate the input. @Noobiedoo Instrument mods? o.0

    In both EQ1 and VG instruments and certain items had instrument mods. And depending on which instrument type it was it would modify any song used that pertained to that same instrument. So a big one would be Selos Acceleration in EQ...Bard speed. Selo's was a percussion song which meant that percussion items modified it. So if you had a drum equipped and depending on its percussion modifier, maybe the drum was a 2.0 percussion instrument, then your Selo's song would get doubled. If the drum was 2.5 then Selo's would get boosted 2.5x.

    In VG a lot of the damage songs were of the voice modifier. So there were certain masks that were HOTLY sought after by Bards to increase their damage songs. One of the better masks that you could get before raiding was Vee's Visage? iirc which was a 1.4 voice mod so all of your damage song components would get multiplied by 1.4.

    On top of this there were items that would also have instrument mods. Something like gloves that come with a string modifier. Or boots that have percussion. Or swords that had wind instrument modifiers on them. I'm pretty certain this will be a thing in Pantheon and will most likely be something Bards spend a decent amount of time on searching after.

    [/blockquote]

    ^

    1. This is very important, what is the point of being a bard if you only use one instrument. I feel it gives the class more depth. Instrument Mods are a must.

     

    2. I feel that Buffing the group is core to the identy of a bard. Otherwise, what sets him apart from any other magic user.

     

    3. Out of combat utilities like: Selo's Accelerando or Lyssa's Locating Lyric from EQ1.

    • 5 posts
    February 3, 2018 9:41 AM PST

    I vote similar as possible to the original eq bard, fade memories pls!