I recently started to play FFXIV and I really like their Dungeon finder. It gow across servers to help people fill groups fast. Have you guys looked into or talked about creating a dungeon finder of some sort to get people together who need to do an instance dungeon?
-Kecho
Daloskar said: There will be no automated dungeon finder in Pantheon, though there maybe other LFG tools...also dungeons are not going to be instanced either :-)
Essentially thats what I think he is referring too.
In FFXI, and I think they ported the same system to the new one. You would open a UI and it would have a list of people that are LFG. You could invite them, tell them where you camp was and they would run out for the grind. It wasn't automatic.
They didn't have that in a LOT of old school games for the longest timie but it was eventually put in. Im...Kinda on the fence about it tbh.
I think a lot of immersion is detroyed when you can just teleport around to dungeons on the fly. This is a role playing game, and unless you are a caster with the ability to teleport, I don't think you should be able to do so. Things like that also ruin the value of a hard earned mount. Instant gratification is what destroyed mmos, so I think we should try to avoid that kind of thing.
From the FAQ:
There will be an entire system of features and mechanics to help people find new friends and others to group with -- there is no one special solution to such a challenge -- it must be a priority and addressed from many angles.
Some quick and easy examples, of course, would be to reward people who don't know each other to group together, to help them stay in contact, to allow to share personal information if they want, to allow searching for new friends if that person chooses to participate in matchmaking. The main point is that we'll be doing all sorts of things to proactively bring people together and KEEP them together.
This is the opposite of something like a dungeon finder that randomly brings in people you need to do an instance, you then do the instance without speaking a word and once the instance is over the group disperses. This is what damages communities and prevents true social interaction.
9.0 Are dungeons open world or instanced?
All dungeons are open world. There are no plans for instanced dungeons at this time. The dungeons will be very large to handle multiple groups of players. More shards/servers will be added if overpopulation becomes a problem.
Burnsmh said:Daloskar said: There will be no automated dungeon finder in Pantheon, though there maybe other LFG tools...also dungeons are not going to be instanced either :-)
Essentially thats what I think he is referring too.
In FFXI, and I think they ported the same system to the new one. You would open a UI and it would have a list of people that are LFG. You could invite them, tell them where you camp was and they would run out for the grind. It wasn't automatic.
They didn't have that in a LOT of old school games for the longest timie but it was eventually put in. Im...Kinda on the fence about it tbh.
No, in FFXIV it is a dungeon finder like in WoW. You queue up and it ports you into the dungeon. The difference is that in FFXIV you can only use the queueing system once per day per dungeon. FFXI was as you say i'm sure.
I wouldn't want to see cross server grouping in any case. It would allow people to escape their reputation in many cases. While I do support an auto grouping tool, something that would allow you to queue for a group and be placed automatically into a group who is looking for a member, it should be limited to your current server. Of course there would be no automatic porting to the group or instances and such as has been stated. Just a tool that would create a nice queue to auto place people. Might help some people meet new players. Break the ice for some who might be a little more hesitant to send out a tell.
Kecho said:I recently started to play FFXIV and I really like their Dungeon finder. It gow across servers to help people fill groups fast. Have you guys looked into or talked about creating a dungeon finder of some sort to get people together who need to do an instance dungeon?
-Kecho
No. Also there isn't a single instanced dungeon nor raid planned to be in Patheon.
Iksar said:From the FAQ:
There will be an entire system of features and mechanics to help people find new friends and others to group with -- there is no one special solution to such a challenge -- it must be a priority and addressed from many angles.
Some quick and easy examples, of course, would be to reward people who don't know each other to group together, to help them stay in contact, to allow to share personal information if they want, to allow searching for new friends if that person chooses to participate in matchmaking. The main point is that we'll be doing all sorts of things to proactively bring people together and KEEP them together.
This is the opposite of something like a dungeon finder that randomly brings in people you need to do an instance, you then do the instance without speaking a word and once the instance is over the group disperses. This is what damages communities and prevents true social interaction.
9.0 Are dungeons open world or instanced?
All dungeons are open world. There are no plans for instanced dungeons at this time. The dungeons will be very large to handle multiple groups of players. More shards/servers will be added if overpopulation becomes a problem.
Learning well, you are, my young padawan.
This is a social driven game that will require some sacrifices to achieve great satisfaction. If you can't find a group: talk to people, travel, bear down and solo some crap, craft or farm instead. Hit on some dude you think is a chick. I pray they don't introduce too many facilitator dynamics that ruin the fundamentals of a virtual world.
Krixus said:This is a social driven game that will require some sacrifices to achieve great satisfaction. If you can't find a group: talk to people, travel, bear down and solo some crap, craft or farm instead. Hit on some dude you think is a chick. I pray they don't introduce too many facilitator dynamics that ruin the fundamentals of a virtual world.
Yeah. This is what made EQ such a fun game. You had people talking to each other and when there was a quest you couldn't do or a mob you couldn't kill you would either ask your guild or you would ask in /ooc if anyone was available to help. Often you'd find people to help you and then you'd get talking and before you knew it you'd made a new friend. From the sounds of everything the Pantheon devs have said they want to return to this type of MMO where community is really the centre of the game and is what makes playing the game so fun.
I think a dungeon finder would take something away from that. I remember sitting in certain zones waiting to get a group at the entrance to the zone with a few other people and just chatting away while we waited for a space to open up in a group. If they had a dungeon finder it would remove that social aspect from the game which would be shame. Plus because there will be no instancing people are going to have to learn to work well with other groups which I feel is a bit of a lost skill in modern MMOs.
Please God no automated dungeon finder. Just make tools to make it easy to form groups and indicate your desire to LFG. Besides which, Pantheon classes, with their defined roles and more nuanced mechanics, will make making such an automated system a pretty tough technical challenge (which is partly why EQ2's dungeon finder was a dismal failure). And it seriously goes against the whole social aspect of the game. LFD is just a lazy hand-holding mechanism that ruins social interaction and turns the game into a giant 3D dungeon lobby.
Not having a dungeon finder in XI was great just because you had to choose who you wanted in your group, so if there was a really bad player that you hated, you could just avoid them by choosing not to invite them. In XIV Id hate when youd get super bad players or people who were just afking and stuff randomly because they didnt care and would never see you again.
Many people are on a schedule in life and this can make them angry ,exhausted
if they are in the race that is life.
Sometimes it is said that life is what happens while you are making other plans
In order to find contentment in the *here and now* we need to embrace an entirely new way of interacting
with the world and the people in it.
The worst part about LFG tools is that they are automated
More often than not,it prevents a genuine connection between players.
I also believe thee more you do,the more opportunities open up
Finding joy in everything we encounter
They could give a whole new spin to the LFG part,example;
People can enlist themselves in the adventurer's guild logbook for any content they wish to offer help
or need help with(example ; advanced map group tool;smokesign of a campfire on the map and a description of whatever players need help with ,switch on/off for players who do not want to see it on map )
Then other players can find the names of nearby player(or anywhere when selected) for whatever it is they want to do
This allows people to create space in a busy schedule,while they can enjoy the presented content they encounter on the adventure.
In this case,people would need to accept that sometimes it is ok to return to places.Instead of seeing it as a race because they want to overachieve and compete all the time.
To me this seems like a moderate solution.
A gap between rest and exhaustion,a space between being free and the feeling of suffocation in the race to endgame*
Overachieving vs Create Space in a Busy Schedule
Letting go of expectations allows us to be present and enjoy what is here in the present moment.
A flexible system that allows us to enjoy the present moment with yourself,while making it easier to connect to people in need,or for you to let others know what you need.
The More You Do, the More Opportunities Open to You.So should there be a limit on what you can flag yourself for?
Something like the advanced map tool with grouping campfire smoke signal allows you to connect and find fun in the moment of the adventure.
Fluffy said:Many people are on a schedule in life and this can make them angry ,exhausted
if they are in the race that is life.
Sometimes it is said that life is what happens while you are making other plans
In order to find contentment in the *here and now* we need to embrace an entirely new way of interacting
with the world and the people in it.The worst part about LFG tools is that they are automated
More often than not,it prevents a genuine connection between players.
I also believe thee more you do,the more opportunities open up
Finding joy in everything we encounterThey could give a whole new spin to the LFG part,example;
People can enlist themselves in the adventurer's guild logbook for any content they wish to offer help
or need help with(example ; advanced map group tool;smokesign of a campfire on the map and a description of whatever players need help with ,switch on/off for players who do not want to see it on map )
Then other players can find the names of nearby player(or anywhere when selected) for whatever it is they want to do
This allows people to create space in a busy schedule,while they can enjoy the presented content they encounter on the adventure.
In this case,people would need to accept that sometimes it is ok to return to places.Instead of seeing it as a race because they want to overachieve and compete all the time.
To me this seems like a moderate solution.
A gap between rest and exhaustion,a space between being free and the feeling of suffocation in the race to endgame*
Overachieving vs Create Space in a Busy Schedule
Letting go of expectations allows us to be present and enjoy what is here in the present moment.
A flexible system that allows us to enjoy the present moment with yourself,while making it easier to connect to people in need,or for you to let others know what you need.
The More You Do, the More Opportunities Open to You.So should there be a limit on what you can flag yourself for?
Something like the advanced map tool with grouping campfire smoke signal allows you to connect and find fun in the moment of the adventure.
There are too many of these one off situations for them to handle. They can't creat some brilliant new custom solution to everything.
This game is being created to combat anti-social themes and features which support "meet but never greet again" circumstances. Dungeon finders are the greatest offenders which have contributed towards the degridation of today's mmos, in terms of social greetings and long lasting relationships. For this reason, the developers are verbally adamantly against the application of such features.
Quick Finder solutions seemed great initially, until we as the players began to feel their negative influence on our overall playing experience. Whats more, content tends to be dumbed down to support such features as well. The focus titers more upon getting things completed regardless of composition and gear choices rather than building towards a good party build and going on a memoriable experience.
I've played FFXIV and have mixed feelings about the dungeon finder. In a sense, it helped me get my daily/weekly quests done fast because I could get readily into a group (healer/tank). However, when I played a DPS character, it took me forever to find a group. I agree with many here in the sense that the dungeon finder degrades social communication as you are queue with various people from multiple servers. And, if you are so unlucky to be grouped with inexperienced/aggressive/speed rushing/troll players, you end up spending a miserable 30-minutes of your life trying to get through the dungeon. The only times I really enjoyed the dungeon finder in FFXIV was when I was partied with fellow guild mates. They made the dungeon fun since we were all on TeamSpeak chatting away.
Not in favor of group finders either as you might have read in other topics
Agree with Farrinard that these convenience tools contributed to the degradation of these games
There needs to room for players to make the switch to act based on their feeling in order for it to be personal ,and allow genuine connections to be made
Not saying there is a brilliant solution to everything.Just suggesting in the hope a solution could be found somewhere in the middle.
While I uderstand for many people with a busy life schedule these automation tools are tempting
It is also important to see the entirety of the negative impact it has on community
While I am against group finders,I don't believe that there can't be a decent feature to help regulate social life*
There might be situations where it is desireable to let other players know where you are and that you are in trouble.
In one extreme an automated tool forms the groups,the other extreme and the whole chat gets cluttered up with LFG requests.
The Advanced map feature where players in trouble can create a smoke signal while they are sitting/downtime might blend in beautifully
Also when thinking about players in open world dungeons and how the players that enter can find out how likely it is they'll meet new players along the way
Potential friends to group up with
Why I believe it is a moderate solution?Because players can find each other in need of help without cluttering up chat
Yet it does not automate teaming up and you still have to make contact.
There won't be any dungeon finders as there aren't any instanced dungeons nor fast travel teleports to groups upon joining (though there will be at least one class that can summon players if I remember correctly). There very likely will be group finders though to help players meet new people and find groups as that is a big part of what this game is about. There is no reason to require people to sit around shouting LFG or even shouting "Camp Check" so they can send tells to those who respond to be put on a list (though I am sure that will still be a thing). Helping people get together and stay together is a good thing for the community of the game.
There will be an entire system of features and mechanics to help people find new friends and others to group with -- there is no one special solution to such a challenge -- it must be a priority and addressed from many angles.
Some quick and easy examples, of course, would be to reward people who don't know each other to group together, to help them stay in contact, to allow to share personal information if they want, to allow searching for new friends if that person chooses to participate in matchmaking. The main point is that we'll be doing all sorts of things to proactively bring people together and KEEP them together.
This is the opposite of something like a dungeon finder that randomly brings in people you need to do an instance, you then do the instance without speaking a word and once the instance is over the group disperses. This is what damages communities and prevents true social interaction.
I remember that back in the old EQ days we would enter a zone and /ooc there which camps where occupied and if there were spots open. People would answer or invite you. In the case that there wasnt an open spot in a group you could just queue up with the leader of that group. He would then send a tell if a spot opened up or that the group would leave the camp and you could replace them.
In the case that there were more people on the list he would hand over the queue list to the new group or leader of that camp and they would give you a tell and invite when it was your turn. It always worked fine that way.
There was always a lively zone chat and people got to know eachother, even when not grouped, just because of the zonechat.
In the case a group would need replacement and there wasn't anyone on a wait list, you would just do a /who all for the class and level you needed replacement for and send people tells asking if they wanted to join.
I think i broke the chat. Background and text color changed...don't know what i did or how to change it. My apologies for that.
I am in favor of a group finder, and groups formed through its use can be for dungeons as well as any other purpose.
The tool I envision will let people say what quest or dungeon they want a group for - or have a group for but need more. This facilitates socialization - it is simply a better equivilant of using general chat to form a group and, if actually used, reduces spam in general chat greatly.
This tool does not need to teleport members to join the group - and should not. This tool does not need to ride herd on group composition and make sure that a group has at least one dps, healer and tank - and should not. The tool is simply a way of letting players see what people are interested in the same content. I see no harm whatsoever in it.
No Group finder please.
Good old EQ style with a possibility to see what class/lvl is LFG and maybe a tool to put up where you would prefer to group when you are LFG thats all that is needed, the rest should be solved with good old chat and walking/running/riding to the spot where the group you got invite too are.
the lesser tools we have the more we have to interact with each other :)
Folks, we have already answered this, we will have tools to help people find each other for groups, we will not allow auto porting to dungeons etc. I am going to go ahead and close this as any further discussion is just personal opinion which is not helpful, it is best to wait until you get into the game to test it and give us feedback based on your first-hand experience, not thoughts on something without even trying it. ;)