Forums » The Ranger

Please Don't Ruin The Ranger

    • 273 posts
    November 20, 2017 4:59 PM PST
    I was fortunate to have grouped with many great rangers in EQ who were great at CC and playing their class the right way. I look forward to doing the same thing in Pantheon.
    • 15 posts
    November 21, 2017 10:48 PM PST

    Lots of good thoughts here!

     

    My feelings on the Ranger class will be based on hearing that an amount of the team that made or worked on EQ is here working on Pantheon. 

    Rangers in EQ had it rough, there was never a clear direction or if there was it was unfortunately doomed due to bad design. You can't have a class doing spells that buff people, spells that damage mobs, DD and dots... You can't have a class that uses melee AND archery AND spells to do their DPS... And to top it all off you can't make that same class also tank. That's what Rangers were described as in eq, but in reality Rangers tanked no better than any other melee class's (rogues/zerkers/monks so on), in fact mage/BL pets easily out tanked group rangers. Reality also was that rangers buffs were "eh, okish" and spells were for the majority of EQ near useless and a terrible use of mana to damage ratio. Rangers DPS then became an issue because whenever it was anywhere near decent the nerf bat would soon follow due to Rangers being plagued by "good at everything, master of none." So ultimately you had a mostly useless class unless it was broken, and by broken I mean Archery DPS worked... But we loved our Rangers and would never allow ourselves to admit we were wasting our lives playing such a filler class... right??? =D

    It's simple, to me there are plenty of melee classes so why create another one. There is a singular Archer class so why not take advantage of that and make it right.

    No pets that do damage or tank!

    Rangers are not a silly Hybrid!

    Rangers don't use  magic!

    Bind wound to heal!

    Make arrows that are blunt, or armor piecing! Long bows VS short bows! Poison arrows to slow mobs, to root mobs, to dot mobs, to stun mobs!

    Run speed is perma self only! At best make it an aura that if grouped you are faster when in a large area around that ranger.

    A Ranger should be an Archery using DPS class that wears leather and can't tank!

    You have 4 things that define games. Tank/Heals/DPS/Utility. If any class is not at least close to the best (competitive to others in that field) then that class is garbage filler. A lazy dev team IMO crates classes that are filler but then give them one or two buffs (AE buffs) that make then "needed." Basically you get a utility that is really really useful but was only created to give a gimp class a spot on raids, it's lazy.

    Basically I already bought the game, but while the class does not need to be made how I might want it to be made, it needs to not be some enigma or I won't even bother giving you more money on a month to month. It's actually an easy class to make, don't get roped into a mindless melee VS Archery class that years later sucks because if given anything good the class becomes OP due to being able to do too much. Don't make us a caster class like we currently are in EQ (60% of damage is spells.)

    I look forward to seeing what Pantheon has to offer for the Ranger class... Please, if you need ideas ask around, don't just make a game where clerics, warriors, wizzys and shaman rule (Tank/heals/DPS/Utility) and anyone not filling a role like that is lost for years upon years upon years. If you find yourself saying in your head "We can't do that with Rangers because then they will be OP, or that because they will again be op!!!" Consider starting over because you're doing it wrong imo.

     

    =D     

     

    • 101 posts
    November 24, 2017 10:02 PM PST

    Avory posted a great post very similar to this on the main EQ forums concerning the Ranger class.  It is a cautionary tale as to how the class has evolved to become a mess today just because there is no clear definition and I believe this has happened in the past 2 expansions. I was pretty happy TDS and ok TBM but things started getting out of hand again EoK for me when we were forced to become archers again.  We constantly keep changing roles and it hurts the class because it makes AAs redundant and useless.  It makes weapons and specialized gear worthless.  There are just so many issues that arise from defining a class to being one thing than changing that class to being another every few expansions.  Rambling so stopping for now to get my thoughts in order.  If you get a chance, seriously read Avory's words.  The guy knows what he is talking about.

    • 77 posts
    November 25, 2017 10:10 AM PST

    Hello all,

    My perspective on a rangers comes from many years living life hunting, fishing, woodsmanship. Growing up as a Boy Scout camping and hiking and participating in many outdoor adventures. All that coupled with reading some great books like "LOTR" trilogy,  "The Ranger Apprentice" series.  Playing EQ and Vanguard and having a good imagination also help.

    Rolling with the punches literally...

    A ranger is not wearing the type of armor that mitigates alot of damage like a tanks, but with some leather armor and a perfectly timed parrying weaponshield with his short sword and dagger coupled with his high agility quick moves he can dodge and avoid many hits. 

    A ranger is the one that knows when to take the agro off the tank for those few seconds so the cleric can heal him up and the shammy can reslow that Bandit. He's the one that snares and pulls and kite roots a line of adds that were coming for the healers. He's the one that stuns the bandits healer with a well placed shot. Yep he does it all, but he's can't do it alone. 

    Playing a ranger in Vanguard and maximizing my ability rotation of applying range dots and then moving in to utilize my melee chains was always fun I never felt like I needed to be a pure meleer or a pure range dpser. Using both was the way to go and yes being in the top 6 on the parse with the wizards, rogues, and other rangers was where I thought I needed to be to help my guild complete its goals.

    However a ranger is made by the developers I'm sure I will get the most out of my character... 

    • 249 posts
    November 26, 2017 9:07 PM PST

    Radamus said:

    Avory posted a great post very similar to this on the main EQ forums concerning the Ranger class.  It is a cautionary tale as to how the class has evolved to become a mess today just because there is no clear definition and I believe this has happened in the past 2 expansions. I was pretty happy TDS and ok TBM but things started getting out of hand again EoK for me when we were forced to become archers again.  We constantly keep changing roles and it hurts the class because it makes AAs redundant and useless.  It makes weapons and specialized gear worthless.  There are just so many issues that arise from defining a class to being one thing than changing that class to being another every few expansions.  Rambling so stopping for now to get my thoughts in order.  If you get a chance, seriously read Avory's words.  The guy knows what he is talking about.

    I read Avory's post on EQ's forums, and while I don't really agree with him on what a ranger 'should' be, I fully agree that we need a clear vision for what the Pantheon ranger 'will' be.  I played my EQ ranger for over 13 years, and I was often frustrated with the massive changes in play-style that the class was subjected to.  Since we dedicate so much time and energy to these characters, it's reasonable to want a clear idea of what we're buying in to when we roll our toons.  I would hate to roll a ranger in Pantheon and find that one year I can play the way I like to play, only to find that in the next expansion I need to adopt a totally different play style because our ability line-up has changed so drastically.

    I really like the detailed class profiles they have released so far.  That's something that we never saw in Everquest.  I'm confident that we'll see a clear vision for the ranger class once we see their reveal and, whether or not it's the ranger I personally would like to play, atleast I'll know from the start whether the class is something I want to dedicate years of my gaming time to.




    This post was edited by Elrandir at November 26, 2017 9:31 PM PST
    • 101 posts
    November 27, 2017 7:21 AM PST

    I hear what you're saying Elrandir.  That's what my basic gist was about how I agreed with Avory's post also.  Direction.  EQ started off saying that the ranger was a hybrid of a warrior and a druid IIRC but we are nothing like either class. Our constant class defining changes throughout the years has been a mess, and this new one is a doozy.

    I don't want that happening to the Pantheon Ranger.  I worry because we haven't any substantial information as to what the class is supposed to be/do.  Are we archers? Are we melee? Are we cowboys?

    Just hoping for some definition soon so that at least I know if the Pantheon version of the Ranger is what I want to invest my time in since I usually dedicate myself to a single class.  And when the class is finally defined, I'm praying to whatever diety I will worship that VR doesn't go down EQ or WoW routes to change class defining roles/abilities/spells for odd, and in a few cases, never understood reasons.

    • 2 posts
    November 28, 2019 9:40 PM PST

    Having played a Ranger on EQII, the Ranger could out dps any clas for the first 10 seconds or so, but had no hate reduction to compensate for it.  I think that the Ranger needs poisioned arrows and explosive arrows, where the poisioned are single target and the explosive are AOE.  Fire arrows are nice as well, but they should set fire to the environment causing damage to nearby charaters forcing them to move.  Depending on the type of arrow and NPC involved, they should cause more or less damage depending on the type of NPC armor etc.  Gas tipped arrows are great for putting NPC toons to sleep or other effects as well. 

     

    The Ranger in EQII was never utilized in the above away.  The bows are also important as they offer various attributes to damage being done.  As well putting out varried levels of damage depending on the type of Bow perhaps.  The Ranger I think should have hieghtened perception in forested  and outdoor environments in general.  Rangers should have excellent scouting skills as well, giving them abilities to be very stealthy.  Rangers shoujld also be very swift on their feet and have ways to deflect attacks and dissapear into the forested areas from the enemy.

     

    Just some thoughts for now.