Forums » The Ranger

Please Don't Ruin The Ranger

    • 268 posts
    April 14, 2017 1:21 PM PDT

    I want to play a Ranger, not a WoW Hunter. I hated that the only bow class in WoW had a pet. We already have two pet classes (Summoner & Necromancer), please for the love of Pantheon, don't turn the Ranger into a pet class.

    My thoughts on the ranger are that it is a DPS class with a bit of utility. Less DPS than a rogue, but can still stealth, track, snare, provide runspeed (not as good as Bard's), and maybe assist with a single HoT since they are in tune with nature like Druids. To be clear, this single HoT wouldn't be enough to solo heal by any means, just a little backup HoT to assist the healer. As for combat, I see the community is largely divided on ranged vs melee. To my understanding classes will be able to specialize down one of two paths, neither of them changing their role, just different specializations. In the case of the ranger, I feel that making those two paths melee and ranged is the perfect solution. A ranger will start off doing equal damage in both fields, but once you do your path quests and specialize, you will obviously do more damage with the weapon of your choice: bow or dual swords. You could be rewarded with an ability, maybe a buff that makes you significantly better at your specialization. Everyone can play the ranger how they want and it doesn't change their role to some sort of hybrid, it is still clearly defined. This is how it was done in EQOA and I loved playing a ranger in that game.


    This post was edited by Flossie at April 14, 2017 3:32 PM PDT
    • 249 posts
    April 14, 2017 2:02 PM PDT

    NEXTLEVL said:

    I want to play a Ranger, not a WoW Hunter. I hated that the only bow class in WoW had a pet. We already have two pet classes (Summoner & Necromancer), please for the love of Pantheon, don't turn the Ranger into a pet class.

    From what's been stated in the pet threads, rangers aren't going to be a pet class Pantheon.  Brad gave the example of having limited pet-related abilities like summoning a temporary hound to help track or forage, but it wouldn't be a combat pet.  I don't think you have anything to worry about in this regard.

     

    • 268 posts
    April 14, 2017 2:57 PM PDT

    Elrandir said:

    NEXTLEVL said:

    I want to play a Ranger, not a WoW Hunter. I hated that the only bow class in WoW had a pet. We already have two pet classes (Summoner & Necromancer), please for the love of Pantheon, don't turn the Ranger into a pet class.

    From what's been stated in the pet threads, rangers aren't going to be a pet class Pantheon.  Brad gave the example of having limited pet-related abilities like summoning a temporary hound to help track or forage, but it wouldn't be a combat pet.  I don't think you have anything to worry about in this regard.

     

    That is excellent news, because some of the posts on the ranger forum had me a bit concerned.

    • 80 posts
    April 15, 2017 6:21 PM PDT

    I sort of feel the same way Nextlevel.  I played a Ranger for the longest of times in the EQ series, and I did not much care for required pets being apart of my ability set, least at the time.   I notice one of the devs in the video attacking with a white wolf.  But I cannot remember if that was a Ranger, or a Shaman.  However I do fancy the idea of a class that utilizes the aid of animals and/or animal spirits.

    • 268 posts
    April 18, 2017 10:16 PM PDT

    Farrinard said:

    I sort of feel the same way Nextlevel.  I played a Ranger for the longest of times in the EQ series, and I did not much care for required pets being apart of my ability set, least at the time.   I notice one of the devs in the video attacking with a white wolf.  But I cannot remember if that was a Ranger, or a Shaman.  However I do fancy the idea of a class that utilizes the aid of animals and/or animal spirits.

     

    Thankfully, that's the Shaman's pet. I believe that class you speak of is yet to be added... The Beastlord. ;)

    • 238 posts
    April 22, 2017 3:47 PM PDT

    As a fellow former EQOA ranger, I completely agree with your assessment. I hope rangers turn out very much like you describe.

    • 3247 posts
    April 23, 2017 3:25 AM PDT

    I fully agree with your assessment as well.  I have very little experience playing ranger myself, but have had many friends over the years who played it in both EQOA and EQ2.  They were extremely happy with their class (particularly EQOA) and I think it's imperative that rangers carve out a "ranged physical damage" niche in the interdependence spectrum.  I remember plenty of fights where having a ranger (or a few) was ideal due to the mob having high magic resist and also having some sort of fast recast AE that prevented extended melee attack sessions.  Allowing rangers to multi spec would be truly awesome ... especially if a master ranger were able to learn both specs.  Sounds like a ton of fun for those who play it and if it's anything like the old days, they are a blast to have in a group.

    • 3247 posts
    April 23, 2017 11:04 AM PDT
    I think positioning should be an important element of maximum DPS output for all physical damage dealers. This makes tanking much more fun because ideally, the tank would round up baddies and position them in a way that had their backs exposed.

    Abilities like block, parry, riposte and dodge should all be based on positioning. This should be true for our tanks as well as NPC's. If there is a huge group of NPC's, a great tank will try to position himself in a way that has the majority of the mobs directly in front of him. This allows him to take full advantage of block/parry/riposte (Can only trigger from frontal quadrants) and dodge. This also sets up the physical damage dealers to attack mobs that have their backs exposed (Thus unable to block/parry/riposte)

    Dealing maximum damage should require attacking from the best angle and that could be challenging at times, particularly while fighting in close quarters. Rangers should have tools in their kit for these situations where they can still dish out moderate damage while up close and personal but for maximum damage, the mob should have their back exposed. I think it would be really cool if rangers had a trap that could root a mob and also freeze the direction they face. This could allow them to set up plays where they can unload a flurry of attacks on an NPC where the position is temporarily optimum due to player driven mechanics.

    Weaving in and out of range should have risk and reward ... maximum damage should come from further away where the risk is naturally higher due to the potential of picking up adds. In some cases, maximum DPS might not be feasible ... and that's fine! Monks or rogues should shine in these areas. When it comes to open areas, a ranger should excel as long as they are mindful of their surroundings and not bringing unwanted baddies to the engagement.

    I think rangers should have an array of position based attacks ... some that require a minimum/maximum range where the ability damage can scale based on distance. I think it would be cool if height could also be used as a factor ... traditionally, archers are much more effective when they have the high ground. I understand this isn't feasible all that often based on the envirionment, but once again ... that's okay! Rangers should have an advantage in these situations like monks or rogues would have in close quarters.

    I imagine an ability like volley having some sort of bonus modifier depending on the height advantage. As far as ranged auto attacks go ... perhaps there shouldn't be a min or max range modifier ... but for certain abilities, why not? I am also fascinated by the idea of having certain abilities only be usable in certain conditions such as having a mob snared/trapped, disarmed, stunned, etc.

    Positioning has always been an interesting combat dynamic and I really hope that rangers are versatile in that regard. They should be similar to casters in the sense that they can deal high ranged damage (it would be physical though which could be better or worse depending on the encounter) ... I also like the idea of having pierce/slash/crush arrows to further accentuate their ranged physical damage potential.

    Unlike casters, rangers would still be moderately effective at close range ... this is where the dual wield swords come out and the ranger can hamstring their opponent (melee attack that requires anything but a pure frontal quadrant) so that they can regain a distance between themself and the mob.

    I don't think rangers should have pets that they can control unless it's something situational such as soothing a wolf/bear/hound that can temporarily pacify them. Maybe they get a companion or familiar that offers some sort of utility but that should be the extent of it such as being able to use aspect of the wolf/bear/cheetah/chameleon/owl depending on which companion they have present.

    I really hope rangers end up being wicked fun to play ... and as far as their role in groups/raids, they should excel at ranged physical damage, have moderate close range prowess as long as it isn't for an extended period of time. Their utility could range from small to moderate group/raid buffs or moderate to slightly above moderate self buffs.

    I would love to see rangers have a role in pulling as well. FFXI did an amazing job at this due to their XP chains. Rangers were nimble and agile enough to where they could start roaming to find the next mob to tag while still dealing damage on the current fight to finish it off. Unlike casters, they should be able to deal out good ranged damage while on the move. The key here, I think, is ensuring that there is enough game play elements in the world that allow them to situational thrive. It shouldn't be constant ... but eventually, a master ranger with a full kit should be versatile enough to be demanded in most outdoor settings and still have an opportunity to weave in and out of danger when close proximity is the only option.

    Long live the EQOA ranger and let the WoW hunter RIP. If rangers in Pantheon are similar to those of EQOA and FFXI, I will probably want one in my static group. If they are like WoW hunters ... ugh. Sure they would be desirable but how fun are they? I want my ranger friends to have a blast while playing the game for years to come and I know it's achievable. A class that focuses on positioning, situational companions, pierce/slash/crush arrows, and flavorful utility would be a dream class to play with.
    • 1385 posts
    April 24, 2017 7:54 AM PDT

    oneADseven said: I think positioning should be an important element of maximum DPS output for all physical damage dealers. This makes tanking much more fun because ideally, the tank would round up baddies and position them in a way that had their backs exposed. Abilities like block, parry, riposte and dodge should all be based on positioning. This should be true for our tanks as well as NPC's. If there is a huge group of NPC's, a great tank will try to position himself in a way that has the majority of the mobs directly in front of him. This allows him to take full advantage of block/parry/riposte (Can only trigger from frontal quadrants) and dodge. This also sets up the physical damage dealers to attack mobs that have their backs exposed (Thus unable to block/parry/riposte) Dealing maximum damage should require attacking from the best angle and that could be challenging at times, particularly while fighting in close quarters. Rangers should have tools in their kit for these situations where they can still dish out moderate damage while up close and personal but for maximum damage, the mob should have their back exposed. I think it would be really cool if rangers had a trap that could root a mob and also freeze the direction they face. This could allow them to set up plays where they can unload a flurry of attacks on an NPC where the position is temporarily optimum due to player driven mechanics. Weaving in and out of range should have risk and reward ... maximum damage should come from further away where the risk is naturally higher due to the potential of picking up adds. In some cases, maximum DPS might not be feasible ... and that's fine! Monks or rogues should shine in these areas. When it comes to open areas, a ranger should excel as long as they are mindful of their surroundings and not bringing unwanted baddies to the engagement. I think rangers should have an array of position based attacks ... some that require a minimum/maximum range where the ability damage can scale based on distance. I think it would be cool if height could also be used as a factor ... traditionally, archers are much more effective when they have the high ground. I understand this isn't feasible all that often based on the envirionment, but once again ... that's okay! Rangers should have an advantage in these situations like monks or rogues would have in close quarters. I imagine an ability like volley having some sort of bonus modifier depending on the height advantage. As far as ranged auto attacks go ... perhaps there shouldn't be a min or max range modifier ... but for certain abilities, why not? I am also fascinated by the idea of having certain abilities only be usable in certain conditions such as having a mob snared/trapped, disarmed, stunned, etc. Positioning has always been an interesting combat dynamic and I really hope that rangers are versatile in that regard. They should be similar to casters in the sense that they can deal high ranged damage (it would be physical though which could be better or worse depending on the encounter) ... I also like the idea of having pierce/slash/crush arrows to further accentuate their ranged physical damage potential. Unlike casters, rangers would still be moderately effective at close range ... this is where the dual wield swords come out and the ranger can hamstring their opponent (melee attack that requires anything but a pure frontal quadrant) so that they can regain a distance between themself and the mob. I don't think rangers should have pets that they can control unless it's something situational such as soothing a wolf/bear/hound that can temporarily pacify them. Maybe they get a companion or familiar that offers some sort of utility but that should be the extent of it such as being able to use aspect of the wolf/bear/cheetah/chameleon/owl depending on which companion they have present. I really hope rangers end up being wicked fun to play ... and as far as their role in groups/raids, they should excel at ranged physical damage, have moderate close range prowess as long as it isn't for an extended period of time. Their utility could range from small to moderate group/raid buffs or moderate to slightly above moderate self buffs. I would love to see rangers have a role in pulling as well. FFXI did an amazing job at this due to their XP chains. Rangers were nimble and agile enough to where they could start roaming to find the next mob to tag while still dealing damage on the current fight to finish it off. Unlike casters, they should be able to deal out good ranged damage while on the move. The key here, I think, is ensuring that there is enough game play elements in the world that allow them to situational thrive. It shouldn't be constant ... but eventually, a master ranger with a full kit should be versatile enough to be demanded in most outdoor settings and still have an opportunity to weave in and out of danger when close proximity is the only option. Long live the EQOA ranger and let the WoW hunter RIP. If rangers in Pantheon are similar to those of EQOA and FFXI, I will probably want one in my static group. If they are like WoW hunters ... ugh. Sure they would be desirable but how fun are they? I want my ranger friends to have a blast while playing the game for years to come and I know it's achievable. A class that focuses on positioning, situational companions, pierce/slash/crush arrows, and flavorful utility would be a dream class to play with.

     

    Well you definately advertised it better than me but this is basially wha i want as well, very good job of the details there man im stoked and ready to play this class like right MEOW!

    • 268 posts
    April 24, 2017 1:00 PM PDT

    oneADseven said: I think positioning should be an important element of maximum DPS output for all physical damage dealers. This makes tanking much more fun because ideally, the tank would round up baddies and position them in a way that had their backs exposed. Abilities like block, parry, riposte and dodge should all be based on positioning. This should be true for our tanks as well as NPC's. If there is a huge group of NPC's, a great tank will try to position himself in a way that has the majority of the mobs directly in front of him. This allows him to take full advantage of block/parry/riposte (Can only trigger from frontal quadrants) and dodge. This also sets up the physical damage dealers to attack mobs that have their backs exposed (Thus unable to block/parry/riposte) Dealing maximum damage should require attacking from the best angle and that could be challenging at times, particularly while fighting in close quarters. Rangers should have tools in their kit for these situations where they can still dish out moderate damage while up close and personal but for maximum damage, the mob should have their back exposed. I think it would be really cool if rangers had a trap that could root a mob and also freeze the direction they face. This could allow them to set up plays where they can unload a flurry of attacks on an NPC where the position is temporarily optimum due to player driven mechanics. Weaving in and out of range should have risk and reward ... maximum damage should come from further away where the risk is naturally higher due to the potential of picking up adds. In some cases, maximum DPS might not be feasible ... and that's fine! Monks or rogues should shine in these areas. When it comes to open areas, a ranger should excel as long as they are mindful of their surroundings and not bringing unwanted baddies to the engagement. I think rangers should have an array of position based attacks ... some that require a minimum/maximum range where the ability damage can scale based on distance. I think it would be cool if height could also be used as a factor ... traditionally, archers are much more effective when they have the high ground. I understand this isn't feasible all that often based on the envirionment, but once again ... that's okay! Rangers should have an advantage in these situations like monks or rogues would have in close quarters. I imagine an ability like volley having some sort of bonus modifier depending on the height advantage. As far as ranged auto attacks go ... perhaps there shouldn't be a min or max range modifier ... but for certain abilities, why not? I am also fascinated by the idea of having certain abilities only be usable in certain conditions such as having a mob snared/trapped, disarmed, stunned, etc. Positioning has always been an interesting combat dynamic and I really hope that rangers are versatile in that regard. They should be similar to casters in the sense that they can deal high ranged damage (it would be physical though which could be better or worse depending on the encounter) ... I also like the idea of having pierce/slash/crush arrows to further accentuate their ranged physical damage potential. Unlike casters, rangers would still be moderately effective at close range ... this is where the dual wield swords come out and the ranger can hamstring their opponent (melee attack that requires anything but a pure frontal quadrant) so that they can regain a distance between themself and the mob. I don't think rangers should have pets that they can control unless it's something situational such as soothing a wolf/bear/hound that can temporarily pacify them. Maybe they get a companion or familiar that offers some sort of utility but that should be the extent of it such as being able to use aspect of the wolf/bear/cheetah/chameleon/owl depending on which companion they have present. I really hope rangers end up being wicked fun to play ... and as far as their role in groups/raids, they should excel at ranged physical damage, have moderate close range prowess as long as it isn't for an extended period of time. Their utility could range from small to moderate group/raid buffs or moderate to slightly above moderate self buffs. I would love to see rangers have a role in pulling as well. FFXI did an amazing job at this due to their XP chains. Rangers were nimble and agile enough to where they could start roaming to find the next mob to tag while still dealing damage on the current fight to finish it off. Unlike casters, they should be able to deal out good ranged damage while on the move. The key here, I think, is ensuring that there is enough game play elements in the world that allow them to situational thrive. It shouldn't be constant ... but eventually, a master ranger with a full kit should be versatile enough to be demanded in most outdoor settings and still have an opportunity to weave in and out of danger when close proximity is the only option. Long live the EQOA ranger and let the WoW hunter RIP. If rangers in Pantheon are similar to those of EQOA and FFXI, I will probably want one in my static group. If they are like WoW hunters ... ugh. Sure they would be desirable but how fun are they? I want my ranger friends to have a blast while playing the game for years to come and I know it's achievable. A class that focuses on positioning, situational companions, pierce/slash/crush arrows, and flavorful utility would be a dream class to play with.

     

    Beautifully said oneADseven! This is how I envision the Ranger.

    • 1848 posts
    April 24, 2017 1:29 PM PDT

    I think they should ruin Rangers. No one likes them anyways. They will always be the butt of jokes. Might as well make their abilities match.

    • 268 posts
    April 24, 2017 1:35 PM PDT

    Beefcake said:

    I think they should ruin Rangers. No one likes them anyways. They will always be the butt of jokes. Might as well make their abilities match.

     

    Don't you put that hex on us Beefcake!

    • 192 posts
    May 27, 2017 5:21 AM PDT

    Beefcake said:

    I think they should ruin Rangers. No one likes them anyways. They will always be the butt of jokes. Might as well make their abilities match.

    Rangers are never liked by people who cant play them or utilise them properly ;-)

  • Wig
    • 209 posts
    May 27, 2017 1:50 PM PDT

    chenzeme said:

    Beefcake said:

    I think they should ruin Rangers. No one likes them anyways. They will always be the butt of jokes. Might as well make their abilities match.

    Rangers are never liked by people who cant play them or utilise them properly ;-)

    Shots fired!

    As per the pulling aspect, I would love rangers to make good pullers as well. Chain pulling mobs allowing for maximum xp while your group sits back and watches your leet skills in awe.

    • 325 posts
    June 1, 2017 1:19 AM PDT

    Im fine with having a pet(non-combat even), aslong as its something i tamed and not summoed, rangers should not have magic of any kind.

  • Wig
    • 209 posts
    June 1, 2017 8:02 PM PDT
    I'd rather have a pet along the lines of charming one for a period of time, rather than having a tamed permanent pet. I'd like to see a charmed pet not be necessary when grouping, just add a bit more dps to help min/max damage.

    What do you guys see as far as a rangers CC abilities?
    • 325 posts
    June 2, 2017 4:37 AM PDT

    Wig said: I'd rather have a pet along the lines of charming one for a period of time, rather than having a tamed permanent pet. I'd like to see a charmed pet not be necessary when grouping, just add a bit more dps to help min/max damage. What do you guys see as far as a rangers CC abilities?

    I don't agree with it, unless your talking about using something like a bola to slow or stumble the target.

    -----------
    To me a ranger is connected with nature from the time spent in it learning from and befriending the the beasts in the wild, and learning what plants kill or heal, rangers are not a druid with spells.

    A ranger is not a petles archer with magic either.

  • Wig
    • 209 posts
    June 2, 2017 5:18 AM PDT
    You don't agree with any ranger CC? I believe CC is a necessity for rangers and a big reason for them to be accepted into a group, besides their dps of course. I could see a bear trap working as a root. Or a type of net entanglement that prevents casting abilities. Or like you said a bola.

    As for charming, it doesn't need to be called "charm" but maybe more fitting "befriend". I don't care what it's called, I just know Brad mentioned rangers will not be a permanent pet class..and that's totally fine with me. But I think it would be fun to tame a companion out in the wild for a short time.
    • 325 posts
    June 2, 2017 5:59 AM PDT

    Wig said: You don't agree with any ranger CC? I believe CC is a necessity for rangers and a big reason for them to be accepted into a group, besides their dps of course. I could see a bear trap working as a root. Or a type of net entanglement that prevents casting abilities. Or like you said a bola. As for charming, it doesn't need to be called "charm" but maybe more fitting "befriend". I don't care what it's called, I just know Brad mentioned rangers will not be a permanent pet class..and that's totally fine with me. But I think it would be fun to tame a companion out in the wild for a short time.

     

    I don't see the ranger as a CC class, but I also didn't play the original EQ so I'm not influenced by that experience.

    I love playing a ranger/scout in MMO’s, and VR may take the ranger class in a direction that doesn't suit my taste, be that forced to use a bow, no companions or CC for utility ect, and if so then so be it, ill just have to wait and see and pick another class if one suits me.

  • Wig
    • 209 posts
    June 2, 2017 2:16 PM PDT
    I hear you and agree that the ranger should be more than just a bow class. I've mentioned before that I think the ranger could specialize in bow or melee with AAs. Now, depending on pantheons idea of a ranger will tie into the CC portion. It's been stated that rogue will have high physical dps, possibly the highest? Who knows. But if that is the case and ranger lacks the dps, it should make up for it in group utility/CC. I do hope to see some good dps come from the ranger, possibly even top the charts depending on your skill as a player.
    • 35 posts
    October 6, 2017 8:14 AM PDT
    Root or snare is a form of cc. I really enjoyed the spells EQ Rangers had in first few expansions.
    • 1385 posts
    October 6, 2017 11:15 AM PDT

    Wig said: You don't agree with any ranger CC? I believe CC is a necessity for rangers and a big reason for them to be accepted into a group, besides their dps of course. I could see a bear trap working as a root. Or a type of net entanglement that prevents casting abilities. Or like you said a bola. As for charming, it doesn't need to be called "charm" but maybe more fitting "befriend". I don't care what it's called, I just know Brad mentioned rangers will not be a permanent pet class..and that's totally fine with me. But I think it would be fun to tame a companion out in the wild for a short time.

     

    I'm fine with rangers getting some CC, like snare/root, maybe some other forms with a decent duration, but nothing crazy like, we know that rogues have a good CC, granted they sacrafice their dps to keep it up, Enchanter obviously will have many forms of CC, shamans slow, and basically every class seems to have a form of cc that im seeing, if anything i would like for rangers to have threat wipe abilties so the rangers can ush insane dps, and try their hardest to keep their threat down, rangers need to be doing great in pantheon ive played enough mmos where rangers are hardly played, or simply outclassed, i believe it time for the rangers to shine and say i am finally a dps class, yes i know rangers are decent dps in todays EQ1, but are still crushed by many other classes without breaking a sweat, i believe that rangers need to finally be one of the ones on top.  And i say no to charming/befriending animals, that sounds to druid-like to me, i could see them getting a spell to lower aggro ranges of animals so team mates can walk them, but not charming.


    This post was edited by Riahuf22 at October 6, 2017 11:27 AM PDT
    • 32 posts
    October 10, 2017 8:05 AM PDT

    Rangers role was always a problem in eq. They couldn't decide to go with melee dmg or ranged and some mediocre cc. Instead of this making rangers a jack of all trades, it kind of made them kind of blah in all these roles. This was my experience in my era of eq1, I really hope they pick either ranged or melee. You can't have a ranger be near rogue dps melee and near wiz dps ranged or then they are op. On the flip side you can't have both ranged and melee balanced on being decent in each, or rangers are mediocre all around. I'm fine with aa defining which dmg type of ranger you would be but, both cannot be an option.

    • 14 posts
    October 13, 2017 11:29 PM PDT

    Coming from EQ2/BDO/ArcheAge/GW2 im not sure how i feel about the whole "Aragon" style of a Ranger. Maybe its also because I've never played an MMO where the Ranger class was done "correctly" but im still kind of iffy also on pure archery, because technically a Ranger isnt pure Archery. If Legolas and Aragon's playstyle could make a baby, that is what i would prefer. The problem is, so were not the butt of jokes, is implementing it in such a way that we as a class don't feel subpar to a rogue nor a wizard. As for pets, no pets  unless its apart of a temporary attack. Ranger's CC, while sticking to lore, without a doubt  should contain snares/traps.

    if they do decide to go with both melee and ranged, then a majority of the encounters would need to somehow incorporate the use of a Rangers capability to move in for melee and jump out for ranged.

     

    • 1173 posts
    October 14, 2017 1:32 PM PDT

    Beefcake said:

    I think they should ruin Rangers. No one likes them anyways. They will always be the butt of jokes. Might as well make their abilities match.

    Good rangers were amazing.  Having the ability to pull, tank, CC and not to mention "track" named mobs literally created an invaluable member of the group.  Yes rangers were the butt of jokes because too many people did not know how to gear them or play them properly for different roles!