Forums » The Ranger

Rangers: Backup Environmentalist?

    • 186 posts
    March 2, 2017 4:15 PM PST

    Poeple have been talking about how Druids are going to have weather controling abilitiy, and how important this will be in Pantheon with the importance of environmental effects in the game.  Druids having the ability to, for example, call on winds to blow a acrid environment away or to bring in a chill to counteract a hot environment.

    But, I myself believe (and some others, at least, seem to agree) that while every class should have something unique it brings to the table and does "best", there should always be a secondary and possibly tertiary class that can also bring that effect to a party, just at perhaps a weaker effect.

    So, when it comes to the environment and this discussion in the Druid forum, I happened to somewhat offhand say Ranger would make sense, and some people seemed to think that was a good idea.  I remember in The Third Age game, the Ranger of the party's ultimate ability was basically summoning a lightning storm.  The visual image is cool, but made me think that Rangers are the second most nature-y class after Druids.  In many games (Baldur's Gate, EQ1), Rangers even get weaker versions or at later levels the same spells that Druids do.

    So, I'll put it to the Ranger community here:

    What do you guys think?
    Would Rangers having some limited weather control abilities (a "Druid-lite", as it were) make sense?

    It would allow parties without a Druid to still get some environmental power by taking along a Ranger while not stepping on the toes of the Druid class when it is available, while making sure that parties who can't find a Druid aren't left in the cold (figuratively and, it would seem, literally speaking).

    Or do you think it's a horrible idea/would be bad for Rangers?

    .

    Note for the sake of this discussion I mean in terms of lore and utility.  So not "Rangers will get this ability but do 5% less DPS to compensate/balance against Rogues" or whatever.  Just a "If Rangers could have this and it doesn't 'cost' them in terms of DPS or balance or whatever, does it make lore sense and would Ranger players be cool with it?"

    • 1665 posts
    March 2, 2017 6:35 PM PST

    Given that the stereotypical ranger is more of a rough and tumble nature person than the druid, I would almost say that in some circumstances the ranger would be able to help with their parties acclimation.  Not necessarily change the environment like a druid, but perhaps give a boost to how well their party is acclimated to certain environments.  Obviously this wouldn't apply to them all, but heat, cold, rain, wind, etc might be appropriate.

    This would give a similar effect, but would be limited to their group.  Also, it would in a way stack with druid's.  So if you had a druid and a ranger in the party, and the druid changed the climate some, but isn't able to do it enough to completely mitigate the effects, perhaps the ranger's buff on the party would help out more.

    For example, in a freezing area the party's movement may be decreased by 40% due to the cold.  The druid may be able to change the local climate, but only enough so the effects are not as bad as they normally are for people there.  So the party may have their movement decreased by 25% now since it's not quite as cold.  Then the ranger buffs the group to make them more acclimated to cold climates.  Then the party would have their movement reduced to 10% instead.  Anyone outside of the party would still be at 25% due to the druid's effect of changing the actual environment, but they wouldn't have the bonus of the ranger's buff.

    I guess the long and short would be, the druid would be able to manipulate nature to their own ends, while the ranger would be able to deal with nature.


    This post was edited by kelenin at March 2, 2017 6:37 PM PST
    • 251 posts
    March 2, 2017 8:48 PM PST

    I think Kelenin nailed it.

     

    I don't see controlling the environment as something that should be in the perview of ranger abilities.  The one exception to this being the campfire idea that has been suggested for the class--where in cold environments you could set one up and use it as a place to pull to to avoid the negative effects of the surrounding cold.  But as Kelenin points out, having an array of abilities that help mitigate the effects of 'natural' environments would be very much in line with the ranger class.  This could come in the form of buffs, or it could be accomplished by incorporating other game systems like foraging and tradeskills.  For instance, a foraged item could be used as a spell reagent for a buff that mitigates a negative environmental effect.  Or foraged items could be used to generate tradeskill made tonics that rangers could pass out for temporary resistances.  As an example, combining foraged soil and mineral water to create a mud that could be applied as a sunblock to mitigate the damaging effects of extreme heat environments.  From a lore perspective, it would make sense for rangers to know how to use the things available in the environment to mitigate the negative environmental effects present in the area.


    This post was edited by Elrandir at March 2, 2017 9:05 PM PST
    • 474 posts
    March 3, 2017 8:14 AM PST

    I think this is exactly where the ranger will go. I am seeing the Ranger as having the same concept to their magic as a druid, only less powerful. I think we would, and should have some of the environmental abilities the Druid has. It makes sense for a Ranger. They spend their lives out in the wilds. They brave the environment to protect their lands. It would make sense for them to have spent time learning the magics shared by druids to help with surviving the environment, but being more physical combat oriented in their training, would be less adept in the mgaic.

    • 4416 posts
    March 3, 2017 9:27 AM PST

    Elrandir said:

    I think Kelenin nailed it.

     

    I don't see controlling the environment as something that should be in the perview of ranger abilities.  The one exception to this being the campfire idea that has been suggested for the class--where in cold environments you could set one up and use it as a place to pull to to avoid the negative effects of the surrounding cold.  But as Kelenin points out, having an array of abilities that help mitigate the effects of 'natural' environments would be very much in line with the ranger class.  This could come in the form of buffs, or it could be accomplished by incorporating other game systems like foraging and tradeskills.  For instance, a foraged item could be used as a spell reagent for a buff that mitigates a negative environmental effect.  Or foraged items could be used to generate tradeskill made tonics that rangers could pass out for temporary resistances.  As an example, combining foraged soil and mineral water to create a mud that could be applied as a sunblock to mitigate the damaging effects of extreme heat environments.  From a lore perspective, it would make sense for rangers to know how to use the things available in the environment to mitigate the negative environmental effects present in the area.

    I totally agree. Acclimation but not control. It would take an IMMENSE amount of magical power to be able to actually change the weather in a particular area. That is something a Druid would devote their life to. I just don't think Rangers have that in them. That is not their focus. But they should definitely be very skilled, if not the best, in mitigating the effects of weather through acclimation or resists. I really hope the ability to actually change the Climate is something that remains completely unique to the Druid, so that they have something impactful that will specifically make them desirable in a group. I do like the idea of a Ranger's campfire though. And I could see where that might considered be a Tier 1 Scorching climate with a very small radius. Definitely nothing more than that though. I try to avoid hybridisation where it's not necessary. I think it'd be interesting to think beyond Rangers just being half warrior/half druid and think of them more as survivalists.

    • 186 posts
    March 3, 2017 10:00 PM PST
    Well, my point is more that when a class has something it does well, and NO ther class does it, then it tends to become a one trick pony which is good at only that and nothing else.

    I'd rather not see the Druid end up like that and balanced around "Well, every group will want one because of it's acclimation ability, and so we have to make other classes in its role stronger than it in (say) healing to 'balance' things."

    To avoid this, no one class should have an absolute monopoly on anything. But, they should have something they're the best at. Rangers offering minor forms of acclimation doesn't make Druids meaningless (since Druids still do it better), but it prevents Druids from being balanced around that ability AND means groups without a Druid can still gain some form of acclimation if they have, say, a Ranger.

    It's more my personal philosophy, but only one class in a game having an essential ability tends to be bad for the class overall (in WoW, for YEARS, the Shaman class was needed because the Devs knew they still had one guarantees raid spot because of Bloodlust).

    In any case, homogenization is where every class has the same abilities. I'm talking about a class having lesser abilities for a gameplay mechanic that will likely be very important, not a copy/paste of class abilities wholesale. :)

    Ranger just seemed to make more sense to me than, say, Wizard having the ability to do it. -shrug-
    • 8 posts
    March 5, 2017 10:48 AM PST

    I see rangers as guerrilla warfare and wilderness survival experts, equally adept at melee and ranged combat.  I see them as having abilities such as buffing, pacifiying, stealth, healing, rooting, snaring, acclimation skills that could be explained as wilderness skills.  I don't see them as having any magic or deity type of spells.