I see no issue in allowing the choice between adding account-wide or character as each player chooses. I'd say catering to the minority of players who are afraid of their raiding guild and want to hide on other characters but fear it will be made mandatory to have account-wide allegiance would be a bad thing. If you are one of those people, then don't join those guilds. If you are a "core" class (whatever that is) that is in high demand then why would you fear such a guild anyway, as you essentially have all the power in that scenario and any other guild would likely love to have you.
Amris said: What I'm saying is that, whether the pressure comes from guilds or other things, there are constant demands being made on me, as a healer, in almost all games that have them. Healers are one core group that a lot of people dislike playing... but don't mind hounding. It isn't malicious, it usually isn't intentional, and it's sometimes downright hard to resist because a lot of people are very, very nice. As a healer, I often WANT to help. Often, by being able to detach from even knowing there's a need for me, I'm able to find a measure of peace that i can't otherwise. Additionally, I never joined a guild with those rules, i got out voted. By your reasoning, I just should have them abandoned people I genuinely cares about because I was being coerced to follow rules i never actually got to choose about. But thank you for trying to make me out to be a jerk. Very thoughtful.
1. I've mained healers in MMO's for 18 years now as well. I understand what you are saying all too well about people not wanting you to play anything but your healer even when you may want to do something else. However sometimes you just gotta stand your ground and tell them you are burnt on healing for today and need a break. If they can't understand that then I'd look for people more understanding and that care about you as much as you care about them.
2. If the people you genuinely care about don't show the same care and respect toward you as you do towards them... well then I'd say they truely don't care.
3. I want to keep on topic of this post and get back to what is important. Yes Account Wide friending may limit you from just getting on and doing your own thing at times, If VR doesn't allow us the option to "Show as Offline". But as long as "Show as Offline" is available I think you should be able to do just want your wanting to do here.
4. I wasn't trying to make you look like a jerk, but just pointing out the arguement you were making. It wasn't one I considered to be vaild. The new angle you took with this post is much better. Stating as a Healer or Tank one may be hounded to be on their main's only when all they want to do is go mine and craft stuff on a DPS or something is not a bad stance. Even more so for me I would prefer to be able to mine and craft on my Healer or Tank and just "Show as Offline" to allow me to peacfully enjoy my night if I truely wanted too.
Edit: On this note I'd love to be able to show a Status as well. Available, Away/AFK, DND, or Offline when playing would be a nice touch.
Saicred said:Agreed - If someone is trolling I'd rather just ingore them at the Account level to limit them from being able to make other characters to spam me with. On this note I am a little concerned with the trial accounts though. I see this as a way for people to make free accounts to use for spam and such. Hopefully this is limited and there ability to interact with the world is limited as well to prevent this.
As for the Friends list, I completely agree as well. Love being able to add a friend by their Account. This way they and I know when we are on at all times. Even if we on different Characters or Servers and such.
I like options, but I don't want to be forced into locking my account to display on all my characters like ESO. As much as I love my guilds and friends, sometimes a guy just wants to log onto an alt for some quiet time. I say this as someone that has been a guild leader and officer over the years. It's not uncommon to log in and get slammed with tells. That's all well and good, but that one character to get away once in a while is a biggy for me. It's also how I do a little stealth recruiting as it's a great way to see how people act in a group without them knowing you're in the guild they might be apping for. I've caught some great peeps and filtered out a few bad eggs in this way several times. :)
As for ignoring, I agree, I would rather it just ignore all characters on the account. It does not need to add all those names to display on my ignore list though. Be too easy to negate my first point. :)
Saicred said:I mean it could work, however it doesn't solve the trial account issue I mentioned. Just means you going to have to potentially ingore hundreds of trail accounts.
I am assuming there will be chat restrictions on trial accounts like a lot of games do these days, so they likely won't be able to send tells unless they're on your friends' list or chat in a general chat type channel. Presumably. I hope...
And on your discussion above, Saicred and Amris, I don't think either of you are a jerk. I think Saicred simply has a different perspective or belief to that of Amris. That being said, I get where you're both coming from. And to that I say this, above I stated how I love my guildees and friends but every now and then I do like to shut the doors and just enjoy my own thing for a while without being disturbed. I see no issue with that, and I doubt that either of you do as well. I think this is why if the account friend is just off the table, it's better for everyone. People can have their free space to go their own way once in a while and then pop back on without being locked in with a radar scope on them 100% of the time. Besides, the most it adds to someone is adding an extra name or 4 if they want all the alts. I am a personified altaholic.
Just my 2 copper. You fellas have a good one. Look forward to seeing you both on launch day. :)
Saicred said:What about if you have the ability to "Show Offline"
Its something that Blizzard should have done years ago, and something they say they are still working on doing, but I don't see why Pantheon couldn't if setup for it to start with.
Seen that one added before as well. GW2's version was a miserable thing. You just needed to look at the guild list and you could see that if a person was online there location would change whenever they swapped zones. I once went in "Offline mode" there to do a little crafting. A couple minutes in after running from where I was to the crafting place, I got a mail from a guild mate that said Hey you. You hiding from us? :) She was joking of course, but I had stuff going on that day and was just up for crafting and didn't want to field tells while doing it. You see how well that went. lol
As for ESO, you're account name is pretty much what folks see, so there's no offlining that part.
If it was done right it "might" could work. I've never seen it done right may be the problem. It links everything universally with no options for privacy and rarely does Offline work as it's supposed to, if it's even there to begin with. But then you have to realize that the account is shown and linked to the characters, so at some point all those characters will be out there either due to a slip up on login or some other thing. And given the fact we won't be instanced, the chances of running into friends & guildees is pretty good.
I'm just more of the mind that it's not really a needed option. It doesn't really add anything except the removal of any alts you might want to step off on on a random day. As I said, I've devoted a lot of time to my guilds, I'm always willing to help and be of service when I can. But there are those times, when you just want to hop on and have a little quiet time, or, as stated above, do a little stealth recruiting. :)
I think where a lot of people have a problem with this is that if it's a thing, it'll be expected or required. And you really shouldn't have to go out and buy a new copy and pay a second sub just to have a little quiet time once in a while. I mean let's use real world for an example. I love my family and I love my friends, but there are days where if I can't step away from them and some of the drama that tends to float around once in a while I just might drink a bowl of rusty nails. :p But I love and enjoy being around them nonetheless. Everyone just needs a little time out once in a while. Same goes for my online family and friends.
Homercles said:I agree with Amris on this. I don't want to see an accountwide friend list option. Sometimes you just wanna log on to an alt and mosey around in peace without threat from guild higher ups pressuring you into playing your main for a raid.
Anonimity can be a good thing.
I agree also. I think a simple friends list with notes, and an ignore list with notes is basically what is needed. I can see the case being made for an account wide ignore list, but I think an account wide friends list is a bit too intrusive, even as an option because I can think of ways it could be abused.
As a highly social person, here are my desires... based on the understanding that you've read what I've already said about problems with people not understanding why I won't account-wide friend them.
WoW is my largest experience with the account wide thing. Here are the problems and offsets that I can think of as a result of my VERY positive experience with EQ and the VERY negative experience with WoW's account-wide thing...
-- I want to be able to be on an alt sometimes. I would like this alt/s to have her own friend list. I want her to be known to whom I want her to be known to. I don't want an account-wide friending to become a mandatory thing in such a way that people are offended when I don't do it.
-- I don't want to give out my email for any sort of account-wide friending.
-- I would like an "account wide" friending of sorts... IF it allowed me to check it off with specific characters or to hide specific characters from specific people. So let's say I'm friends on Amris with Barry. But I know that Barry wants to always group with me. This I generally really like, but I just had a terrible day at work, and I know my performance will be low... so I make an alt because while I adore Barry, I just don't want to do healing today because it's so demanding and I feel exhausted. But Barry's been working on this quest and I KNOW his feelings will be hurt when I say I can't help. I don't want to hurt his feelings, because I already had a bad enough day. THIS is the kind of issue that arises all the time... so if I can just log on and be at peace for a while, I'll likely get into a better mood and help him anyway.
-- Cross-server (and god help me, cross-game, ugh!!) account-wide friend lists have caused me no end of trouble. I cannot log in on another server without the people on the first server upset that I'm not at THEIR raid. So give me the option, UNKNOWN to the recipient, to make it server-only (as well as character only). Making it so that the 'friend' doesn't necessarily KNOW what level of friending I've truly allowed them would make the whole process a lot easier.
The biggest problem I have is that anything like appearing offline blocks the people you do want to talk to, as well as everyone else. It also hurts feelings when you're on another server because you're just NOT up to another raid tonight (rather play my level 8 whatever for now, too upset to raid, thanks).
I get it. I shouldn't care about other people's feelings. I should put myself first. I should drop them as friends if they don't understand... I should do dishes that night before playing Pantheon instead of after...
I rarely do what I should. :p
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TLDR: Give me the option of tailoring the "account wide" friend list to not actually be "account wide", without the other person knowing about it and getting offended. Let me have some privacy options, or please don't have this "feature".
I like the ideas of unlimited ignore/friends lists, and especially for friend notes, so I can put down where I met them and maybe remember them. personal notes could also help you to retain knowledge on friends who are also guild members. It's always good to remember your officers.
I'm mixxed about ignore list but friends list I think should be character only for the reasons people have discussed. Big guilds like dragon accord that require complete loyalty will require friending so they can track your every move. I don't think thats the point of a friends list.
Finally, Options like "invite to party" and "send pm" aught to be present. And so long as friending is character only I see no problem with being able to see your friend's level and location. Gear is a bit much.
One thing I've mentioned before is being allowed to put time limits on your ignore list if you wish. Ignoring someone now could mean ignoring someone with a strong contribution later. Being able to set my ignore list to take people off of it after a month might be nice.
I really like the idea that you can add notes to your friendslist, I'm terrible at remembering names and this would help me so much!
I would like the friendslist to be bound to the character and not be accountwide. I need my peace every now and then too.
And I would really, really like that you have to accept a friend request. I know people can just write your name and class down on a pice of paper, so why bother with having to accept a friend request. But I like that a friendlist is a friendlist and not a tracklist for when you need some class or other :)
-sorte.
Saicred said:Agreed - If someone is trolling I'd rather just ingore them at the Account level to limit them from being able to make other characters to spam me with. On this note I am a little concerned with the trial accounts though. I see this as a way for people to make free accounts to use for spam and such. Hopefully this is limited and there ability to interact with the world is limited as well to prevent this.
As for the Friends list, I completely agree as well. Love being able to add a friend by their Account. This way they and I know when we are on at all times. Even if we on different Characters or Servers and such.
One thing they could do it make it if your in a trial account you can not use specific chat channel like maybe (City, General, or OOC) or any channel that address the current zone they are in or to address an enitre server of there known spam, granted they can still go to an area that people like to conjure at and spam there and not to much people can do about that other than maybe making it to where if your in a trial account you can only get to lvl 10 i think i heard that was the limit of it i believe i read somewhere and only the beginning zones are available to them and possibly only the human race available as well since they are the only race to be everything, not wanting to limit the trial account that badly really but if you want to stop the spammers on the trial account spamming you have to limit the trial account in the process.
Riahuf22 said:Saicred said:Agreed - If someone is trolling I'd rather just ingore them at the Account level to limit them from being able to make other characters to spam me with. On this note I am a little concerned with the trial accounts though. I see this as a way for people to make free accounts to use for spam and such. Hopefully this is limited and there ability to interact with the world is limited as well to prevent this.
As for the Friends list, I completely agree as well. Love being able to add a friend by their Account. This way they and I know when we are on at all times. Even if we on different Characters or Servers and such.
One thing they could do it make it if your in a trial account you can not use specific chat channel like maybe (City, General, or OOC) or any channel that address the current zone they are in or to address an enitre server of there known spam, granted they can still go to an area that people like to conjure at and spam there and not to much people can do about that other than maybe making it to where if your in a trial account you can only get to lvl 10 i think i heard that was the limit of it i believe i read somewhere and only the beginning zones are available to them and possibly only the human race available as well since they are the only race to be everything, not wanting to limit the trial account that badly really but if you want to stop the spammers on the trial account spamming you have to limit the trial account in the process.
The level or time restraints for free accounts has not been decided yet. It's also extremely unlikely that they will be limited to certain zones, races, or classes. I don't know where you heard that tbh.
From the FAQ: "A new player will be able to download and play Pantheon to a certain level for free, with a minimum of impediments. It's important to us that players, especially those who might not be familiar with classically-spirited MMOs, be given a chance to acclimate and truly enjoy the game. That said, some restrictions on these free characters may have to be made in order to avoid them being used by farmers, griefers, etc."
So basically, it's still up in the air. But limiting them to certain zones, races, and classes would not be a "minimum of impediments" in my mind. It would severely limit the player's ability to experience the game and would do almost nothing to stop spammers.
Please see this thread for more info on this exact topic: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5310/trial-accounts
I would hope ignore can be done via account, and here is why. In EQ1, all you had to do was roll a second character, and send me a tell if i ignored you. Personally, i hated that, I didn't ignore too many people in my time, but if i ignored you it was for a good reason. eventually you would move off after like a week, but for the most part, someone would always log in as a different character and start bugging me again, so either ignore should be account wide, or should be able to report someone for harassment if we ignore them and they make a character to come back and continue a conversation. EQ, they didn't care. Harassment through tells was never bothered with, so i could create all the chars i wanted and start going to town on random people and always get away with it. Hope this is a problem that is never encountered here, because some people will just act like kids.
Bazgrim said:Riahuf22 said:Saicred said:Agreed - If someone is trolling I'd rather just ingore them at the Account level to limit them from being able to make other characters to spam me with. On this note I am a little concerned with the trial accounts though. I see this as a way for people to make free accounts to use for spam and such. Hopefully this is limited and there ability to interact with the world is limited as well to prevent this.
As for the Friends list, I completely agree as well. Love being able to add a friend by their Account. This way they and I know when we are on at all times. Even if we on different Characters or Servers and such.
One thing they could do it make it if your in a trial account you can not use specific chat channel like maybe (City, General, or OOC) or any channel that address the current zone they are in or to address an enitre server of there known spam, granted they can still go to an area that people like to conjure at and spam there and not to much people can do about that other than maybe making it to where if your in a trial account you can only get to lvl 10 i think i heard that was the limit of it i believe i read somewhere and only the beginning zones are available to them and possibly only the human race available as well since they are the only race to be everything, not wanting to limit the trial account that badly really but if you want to stop the spammers on the trial account spamming you have to limit the trial account in the process.
The level or time restraints for free accounts has not been decided yet. It's also extremely unlikely that they will be limited to certain zones, races, or classes. I don't know where you heard that tbh.
From the FAQ: "A new player will be able to download and play Pantheon to a certain level for free, with a minimum of impediments. It's important to us that players, especially those who might not be familiar with classically-spirited MMOs, be given a chance to acclimate and truly enjoy the game. That said, some restrictions on these free characters may have to be made in order to avoid them being used by farmers, griefers, etc."
So basically, it's still up in the air. But limiting them to certain zones, races, and classes would not be a "minimum of impediments" in my mind. It would severely limit the player's ability to experience the game and would do almost nothing to stop spammers.
Please see this thread for more info on this exact topic: https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/5310/trial-accounts
Sorry for the confusion i meant the level restriction only being to 10, everything else was just a thought to stop money spammers and the like to not harass the other players from enjoying the game and to limit them from venturing to other places to make them have mininum effect of getting what they want done
I would hate to restrict it like crazy or at all to be honest but i know if they don't do something ignoring even 100 accounts or a 1,000 wont stop us from hearing from them if they cant be control from the trial account since we know more than likely they will be free obviously, so to restrict them for server, zone chat lines and making it to wher they cant harass city zones and the like they need to be somewhere in the trial area that isn't traveled much but by trial account users so they don't harass the players who have put money into the game and don't want to hear there advertisements and want to actually enjoy the game by talking to people in the zone/server channels that are actually doing something, even if its trolling id rather deal with them for as long as its not trolling me by advertisements and the like