Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Question about the new FAQ

    • 595 posts
    February 22, 2017 3:06 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    Man, this thread is an almost complete hydra. VR cuts one head off the beast and 5 more ravenous heads grow in it's place. I can understand the hesitancy to answer any questions. 

    Exactly.  

    It's hard for me to understand how this one has snowballed so out of control.  Like the feature?  Sweet, use it!  Don't like the feature?  Uncheck the box... Done.  Likening this to a hot button or game breaking issue is absurd in my mind.  Everyone wins and still people want to dictate to others how they should play the game.  Confirmation bias is the bane of human reason.

    • 243 posts
    February 22, 2017 3:13 PM PST

    Aradune said:

    My thoughts on what 'cosmetic' items are:

    Primarily they are items to change your characters appearance in a way that doesn't relate to combat -- they're for RP'ing and such, and are very important to many people in the Pantheon community.

    They *could* also, post-launch, evolve into horizontal paths of advancement and have non-combat related stats and attributes.

    I like that you are thinking of possible ways of advancement besides killing stuff, the last part of the quote seems like a cool idea to me.

     

    Mod Edit: Removed meme, please do not add images to posts unless they are in off topic threads or explaining something to the devs :)


    This post was edited by Rominian at February 22, 2017 4:17 PM PST
    • 279 posts
    February 22, 2017 3:22 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    If someone wants to roleplay as a leather wearing warrior then why is there anything wrong with that? This proposed system is the best compromise for both roleplayers and non-roleplayers. The cosmetic crowd and those that prefer to not have that kind of thing. And there is nothing yet to suggest warriors can even equip robes, they couldn't in EQ. 

    That's fine if they want to roleplay as a leather wearing warrior. The compromise would be requiring wearing real leather adventuring armor in order to wear that cosmetic leather armor in those slots. Why should I be forced into their roleplaying scenario where leather armor will protect them just as well as plate armor. Do I have to turn it off for everyone just because of one unrealstic roleplayer??

    As another compromise, they could make a special server for those who want unrestricted cosmetic choices.

    • VR Staff
    • 587 posts
    February 22, 2017 3:29 PM PST

    Iksar said:

    Man, this thread is an almost complete hydra. VR cuts one head off the beast and 5 more ravenous heads grow in it's place. I can understand the hesitancy to answer any questions. 

    LoL, yes, let's keep the Hydras in the game world please :)

    • 595 posts
    February 22, 2017 3:30 PM PST

    Pantz said:

    Iksar said:

    If someone wants to roleplay as a leather wearing warrior then why is there anything wrong with that? This proposed system is the best compromise for both roleplayers and non-roleplayers. The cosmetic crowd and those that prefer to not have that kind of thing. And there is nothing yet to suggest warriors can even equip robes, they couldn't in EQ. 

    That's fine if they want to roleplay as a leather wearing warrior. The compromise would be requiring wearing real leather adventuring armor in order to wear that cosmetic leather armor in those slots. Why should I be forced into their roleplaying scenario where leather armor will protect them just as well as plate armor. Do I have to turn it off for everyone just because of one unrealstic roleplayer??

    No, I think the more rational and sensible solution would be for you to just to get over the one unrealistic person and acknowledge that they represent the exception and not the rule.  After all, the system is being implemented to compliment the majority, not the outliers.  That, and I think we all just need to wait and see the full breadth of the system before we all jump off the cliff over an appearance tab.

    • 2752 posts
    February 22, 2017 3:39 PM PST

    Pantz said:

    That's fine if they want to roleplay as a leather wearing warrior. The compromise would be requiring wearing real leather adventuring armor in order to wear that cosmetic leather armor in those slots. Why should I be forced into their roleplaying scenario where leather armor will protect them just as well as plate armor. Do I have to turn it off for everyone just because of one unrealstic roleplayer??

    As another compromise, they could make a special server for those who want unrestricted cosmetic choices.

     

    Well that seems to boil down to wanting to be the arbiter of what is and is not acceptable of other players in your world. If they were forced to actually wear the leather then they wouldn't be able to roleplay as a leather warrior, as they would be dead all the time. Roleplaying is playing pretend, the suspension of disbelief on your part and the part of those around you. If a character isn’t something that you feel would really lend itself to a lot of roleplay with your own character or your view, you can safely pass them by. 

     

    In any case, I think this thread is beyond me now. Thank you for this option VR, very glad to see it!


    This post was edited by Iksar at February 22, 2017 3:40 PM PST
    • 279 posts
    February 22, 2017 3:43 PM PST

    Nikademis said:

    No, I think the more rational and sensible solution would be for you to just to get over the one unrealistic person and acknowledge that they represent the exception and not the rule.  After all, the system is being implemented to compliment the majority, not the outliers.  That, and I think we all just need to wait and see the full breadth of the system before we all jump off the cliff over an appearance tab.

    Nah, I'm not going to get over it. It's not a win win for everyone, and now you are the one telling me how to play. The compromise was for the majority of of people who want cosmetics in the game but not for how realistic the restrictions should be. That's why I'm making my requests now and will be fighting for them till the end. If I'm in the minority then hopefully they will have one server that offers realistic cosmetic restrictions.

    • 9115 posts
    February 22, 2017 4:02 PM PST

    Let's keep the personal attacks out of our forums please, or else it will be cleaned up and/or closed.

    • 595 posts
    February 22, 2017 4:05 PM PST

    Pantz said:

    Nikademis said:

    No, I think the more rational and sensible solution would be for you to just to get over the one unrealistic person and acknowledge that they represent the exception and not the rule.  After all, the system is being implemented to compliment the majority, not the outliers.  That, and I think we all just need to wait and see the full breadth of the system before we all jump off the cliff over an appearance tab.

    Nah, I'm not going to get over it. It's not a win win for everyone, and now you are the one telling me how to play. The compromise was for the majority of of people who want cosmetics in the game but not for how realistic the restrictions should be. That's why I'm making my requests now and will be fighting for them till the end. If I'm in the minority then hopefully they will have one server that offers realistic cosmetic restrictions.

    How could VR ever win?  They introduce a well thought out mechanic which checks many boxes, for what sounds like a lot of the community.  You don't like it so you want them to devote resources to developing an entirely different server so you don't have to see a player's appearance gear, rather than just adjusting a setting to accomplish the same thing?  

    I'm at a loss...

    • 563 posts
    February 22, 2017 4:09 PM PST

    Nikademis said:

    Pantz said:

    Nikademis said:

    No, I think the more rational and sensible solution would be for you to just to get over the one unrealistic person and acknowledge that they represent the exception and not the rule.  After all, the system is being implemented to compliment the majority, not the outliers.  That, and I think we all just need to wait and see the full breadth of the system before we all jump off the cliff over an appearance tab.

    Nah, I'm not going to get over it. It's not a win win for everyone, and now you are the one telling me how to play. The compromise was for the majority of of people who want cosmetics in the game but not for how realistic the restrictions should be. That's why I'm making my requests now and will be fighting for them till the end. If I'm in the minority then hopefully they will have one server that offers realistic cosmetic restrictions.

    How could VR ever win?  They introduce a well thought out mechanic which checks many boxes, for what sounds like a lot of the community.  You don't like it so you want them to devote resources to developing an entirely different server so you don't have to see a player's appearance gear, rather than just adjusting a setting to accomplish the same thing?  

    I'm at a loss...

    Perhaps 3 modes are necessary.

    Adventure mode: Base gear thats actually being worn, giving stats etc.

    Appearance mode: will show appearance gear that fits the constraints of the class/whats really being worn. (plate can only look like plate etc). If someone has set appearance gear outside of these constraint it defaults back to adventure gear.

    Cosmetic mode: will show whatever the player is wearing in the appearance slot, they will look like they are wearing a robe when they have the stats and AC of plate.


    This post was edited by Rachael at February 22, 2017 4:12 PM PST
    • 595 posts
    February 22, 2017 4:15 PM PST

    Rachael said:

    Nikademis said:

    Pantz said:

    Nikademis said:

    No, I think the more rational and sensible solution would be for you to just to get over the one unrealistic person and acknowledge that they represent the exception and not the rule.  After all, the system is being implemented to compliment the majority, not the outliers.  That, and I think we all just need to wait and see the full breadth of the system before we all jump off the cliff over an appearance tab.

    Nah, I'm not going to get over it. It's not a win win for everyone, and now you are the one telling me how to play. The compromise was for the majority of of people who want cosmetics in the game but not for how realistic the restrictions should be. That's why I'm making my requests now and will be fighting for them till the end. If I'm in the minority then hopefully they will have one server that offers realistic cosmetic restrictions.

    How could VR ever win?  They introduce a well thought out mechanic which checks many boxes, for what sounds like a lot of the community.  You don't like it so you want them to devote resources to developing an entirely different server so you don't have to see a player's appearance gear, rather than just adjusting a setting to accomplish the same thing?  

    I'm at a loss...

    Perhaps 3 modes are necessary.

    Adventure mode: Base gear thats actually being worn, giving stats etc.

    Appearance mode: will show appearance gear that fits the constraints of the class/whats really being worn. (plate can only look like plate etc). If someone has set appearance gear outside of these constraint it defaults back to adventure gear.

    Cosmetic mode: will show whatever the player is wearing in the appearance slot, they will look like they are wearing a robe when they have the stats and AC of plate.

    Well said Rachael.  

    As I said earlier in the thread, there is a very real chance that a) we have not seen the full extent of the mechanic, and b) there will be further development to try to make this work for as many as possible.  But as some point you have to draw the line as it's clear that VR will never assuage everyone.  And nor should they.

    • 1778 posts
    February 22, 2017 4:28 PM PST

    Rachael said:

    Nikademis said:

    Pantz said:

    Nikademis said:

    No, I think the more rational and sensible solution would be for you to just to get over the one unrealistic person and acknowledge that they represent the exception and not the rule.  After all, the system is being implemented to compliment the majority, not the outliers.  That, and I think we all just need to wait and see the full breadth of the system before we all jump off the cliff over an appearance tab.

    Nah, I'm not going to get over it. It's not a win win for everyone, and now you are the one telling me how to play. The compromise was for the majority of of people who want cosmetics in the game but not for how realistic the restrictions should be. That's why I'm making my requests now and will be fighting for them till the end. If I'm in the minority then hopefully they will have one server that offers realistic cosmetic restrictions.

     

    How could VR ever win?  They introduce a well thought out mechanic which checks many boxes, for what sounds like a lot of the community.  You don't like it so you want them to devote resources to developing an entirely different server so you don't have to see a player's appearance gear, rather than just adjusting a setting to accomplish the same thing?  

    I'm at a loss...

    Perhaps 3 modes are necessary.

    Adventure mode: Base gear thats actually being worn, giving stats etc.

    Appearance mode: will show appearance gear that fits the constraints of the class/whats really being worn. (plate can only look like plate etc). If someone has set appearance gear outside of these constraint it defaults back to adventure gear.

    Cosmetic mode: will show whatever the player is wearing in the appearance slot, they will look like they are wearing a robe when they have the stats and AC of plate.

     

    Really like the idea Rachael. That could help bridge the gap from Actual to Cosmetic. For people that want the cosmetic gear or are okay with it, but still want it to not completely break immersion.

    • 187 posts
    February 22, 2017 4:30 PM PST

    It would just be nice if you could toggle it yourself per person. You could default everyone to standard, but then toggle a person on or off through inspecting them.

    That way, having both an account-wide and individual setting, you would see all the cosmetic gear except that dwarf that thinks a speedo while he tanks is funny. :p

    This would also allow those of us who enjoy our holiday gear to enjoy our holiday gear without The Grinch stealing our presents!

    • 1778 posts
    February 22, 2017 4:39 PM PST

    But lets get this thread back to the most important thing:

     

    They *could* also, post-launch, evolve into horizontal paths of advancement and have non-combat related stats and attributes.

     

    Evil Brad and his epicly vague and cryptic hints!!! Thanks Brad, now how am I supposed to sleep with a intrigue like that? ^.~

     

     

    • 279 posts
    February 22, 2017 5:13 PM PST

    Rachael said:

    Perhaps 3 modes are necessary.

    Adventure mode: Base gear thats actually being worn, giving stats etc.

    Appearance mode: will show appearance gear that fits the constraints of the class/whats really being worn. (plate can only look like plate etc). If someone has set appearance gear outside of these constraint it defaults back to adventure gear.

    Cosmetic mode: will show whatever the player is wearing in the appearance slot, they will look like they are wearing a robe when they have the stats and AC of plate.

    That's a nice middle option but I would still prefer more realistic restrictions for all.

    If it's completely unrestricted I'll be the one abusing it the most. My rogue will wear a monk hat, green robe, plate gauntlets, leather sandles, and dual wield greatswords. 

    • 626 posts
    February 22, 2017 5:21 PM PST

    Aradune said:

    Iksar said:

    Man, this thread is an almost complete hydra. VR cuts one head off the beast and 5 more ravenous heads grow in it's place. I can understand the hesitancy to answer any questions. 

    LoL, yes, let's keep the Hydras in the game world please :)

     

    So your saying Kilsin is going to post some Screenshots of in game Hydra's soon? Yay!!

     

    P.S. - I was involved in this earlier, but man people now making me look sane even haha :)

    • 1618 posts
    February 22, 2017 5:22 PM PST

    Pantz said:

    Rachael said:

    Perhaps 3 modes are necessary.

    Adventure mode: Base gear thats actually being worn, giving stats etc.

    Appearance mode: will show appearance gear that fits the constraints of the class/whats really being worn. (plate can only look like plate etc). If someone has set appearance gear outside of these constraint it defaults back to adventure gear.

    Cosmetic mode: will show whatever the player is wearing in the appearance slot, they will look like they are wearing a robe when they have the stats and AC of plate.

    That's a nice middle option but I would still prefer more realistic restrictions for all.

    If it's completely unrestricted I'll be the one abusing it the most. My rogue will wear a monk hat, green robe, plate gauntlets, leather sandles, and dual wield greatswords. 

    If you don't like something, ban it for everyone.

    • 97 posts
    February 22, 2017 5:56 PM PST

    VG had appearance gear.  Any piece of adv gear that your character could equip in game could be placed in an appearance slot.  Weapons were excluded in VG though.  It is very simple. 

    • 279 posts
    February 22, 2017 6:14 PM PST

    Beefcake said:

    If you don't like something, ban it for everyone.

    It's not up to me. It's just like the race/class combo restrictions, Ogre Enchanters are banned for everyone.

    We will have to wait and see if VR feel cosmetics will need restrictions or not. My guess is they will at least restrict it to items equipable by your class.

    • 238 posts
    February 22, 2017 6:37 PM PST

    I guess for me because it’s what “I” see rather then what “others” see it’s something I can live with. You could literally click off the option when you first log in and never see cosmetic gear ever. It negates any PvP concerns and allows others to play around while preserving my immersion. Now it possible to increase the value of good looking gear not just for its stats but for also the way it looks.

     

    Now hopefully cosmetic gear is also soothing you have to earn rather than just something you used a few hours of gold on.

     

    I would love to see it be restricted to items that you could normally equip so the caster cant been in full plate.

    • 781 posts
    February 22, 2017 7:04 PM PST

    Why is this an argument ?  I mean really... it is simply an instrument in place for PR people to have a great time doing what they do best ,.... PR.  It is not a foot in the door for a cash shop, it is not a foot in the door for any malicious event that VR has already eased your minds about.  They have not gone rogue and changed their minds about anything and just trying to sway you to meet them halfway.  This is no benefit in stats or anything of that matter .............simple appearance change... done.  VR has even enabled it so you dont even have to see it if you so choose not to, yeah .. how bout those apples :)   Cmon guys, before we start blowing up the forums, let's give VR a chance to explain why they are doing what they are doing.  It will all make a lot more sense in the long run :) 

    • 470 posts
    February 22, 2017 7:36 PM PST

    Kelem said:

    Why is this an argument ?  I mean really... it is simply an instrument in place for PR people to have a great time doing what they do best ,.... PR.  It is not a foot in the door for a cash shop, it is not a foot in the door for any malicious event that VR has already eased your minds about.  They have not gone rogue and changed their minds about anything and just trying to sway you to meet them halfway.  This is no benefit in stats or anything of that matter .............simple appearance change... done.  VR has even enabled it so you dont even have to see it if you so choose not to, yeah .. how bout those apples :)   Cmon guys, before we start blowing up the forums, let's give VR a chance to explain why they are doing what they are doing.  It will all make a lot more sense in the long run :) 

     

    These days everything's an argument. Best we can do is try and help defuse it.

    As for the system itself, I teased Brad a bit above about his statement in jest. But I do remember similar appearances for Vanguard where you would swap cloths for whatever sphere you were doing, so crafting you would have your crafting smock and tools, diplomacy your lil suit, and adventuring your equipment. It's my hope this is kinda the groundwork to expand on that at some point. A lot can be done here and it doesn't all equate to bad. Besides, game's a long way from finished. If it sucks they have plenty of time to tweak or remove it.


    This post was edited by Kratuk at February 22, 2017 7:38 PM PST
    • 9115 posts
    February 23, 2017 1:59 AM PST

    Gragorie said:

    VG had appearance gear.  Any piece of adv gear that your character could equip in game could be placed in an appearance slot.  Weapons were excluded in VG though.  It is very simple. 

    Yes, that is true man, but we were forced to look at everyones appearance gear if they put it on, this discussion is talking about allowing people to have the power and toggle it off in their view :)

    For example; You find a pink flamingo costume in a secret location and immediately put it on, dancing around thinking you look fabulous, I can have it toggled off in my screen so I am able to sleep soundly at night without visions of you dancing up a storm! Both of us win and can have fun playing the game the way we like without either of us suffering haha :D

    It lets people wear what they want and others view what they want. We will speak to the team and see how much customisation we can allow within that system, we may be able to make it individual per person but we will have to wait and see, it really isn't a priority at this stage of development, we are focussed on getting the game ready for testing first :)

    • 432 posts
    February 23, 2017 5:16 AM PST

    Hokanu said:

    Sound like a great compromise to me!  Love your work VR

    Todd will be a happy man! :)

     

     

    Yes i'm excited. I'm home sick today (woke up coughing at 4am, not fun) and now i'm waiting impatiently for my husband to wake up. He will be so happy!

     

    -Todd

     

    #edit

     

    I am seriously like the happiest person right now. You guys have no idea how much time I waste to look good or look the part for my fantasy character. YAY!


    This post was edited by tehtawd at February 23, 2017 5:25 AM PST
    • 19 posts
    February 23, 2017 5:39 AM PST

    Aradune said:

    My thoughts on what 'cosmetic' items are:

    Primarily they are items to change your characters appearance in a way that doesn't relate to combat -- they're for RP'ing and such, and are very important to many people in the Pantheon community.

    They *could* also, post-launch, evolve into horizontal paths of advancement and have non-combat related stats and attributes.

    Could you elaborate further? Which attributes for example?

    Cosmetic items giving certain buffs doesnt sound like anything I thought Pantheon would include. Surely there are certain stats which most people wont have any problems with but its walking on thin ice in my opinion.