Forums » The Cleric

"Melee" Idea for Cleric Weapons

    • 186 posts
    February 18, 2017 10:47 AM PST

    So, I was thinking about how a lot of us don't want to melee, but a lot of us do...

    Since you can meditate during battle, what if you made an "enchantment" or other thing that would do the same thing as Meditate. If you want to melee, you don't do any DPS, but you do get mana back at the same rate as if you were meditating. This could translate onto any weapon or item, and it would do nothing more or less than allow you to basically choose to use melee as your "sitting around" instead of use sitting around as your sitting around.

    It should be pretty easy to remove it, though, so that your weapon can again do damage. So maybe it needs to be a buff you can put on yourself, or a 'extra' paperdoll spot.

    I was thinking that one of the problems with cleric and why so few of them, is that "I don't want to sit around and do nothing" is a familiar cry. But then often the people predisposed towards healers don't want to have to melee.

    A toggle item or spell like this would allow for both, because it avoids making melee necessary.

    • 174 posts
    February 25, 2017 8:02 AM PST

    So you are proposing an agro free Mana Regen vs sitting and thereby increasing your agro radius?  I'm all in for phantom fighting then )

    • 1327 posts
    February 25, 2017 8:39 AM PST

    Xilshale said:

    So you are proposing an agro free Mana Regen vs sitting and thereby increasing your agro radius?  I'm all in for phantom fighting then )

    There's no reason why this couldn't also generate aggro. Even still, I doubt you'd be able to swing your mace hard enough to pull aggro though unless you have a really bad group.

    Either way, I think this is a good idea. Even just having to be within melee range makes it more likely that you'll take collateral damage, and just makes the fight more interesting.

    There could also be an item that restores mana when you take damage. This is another way to incentivize you to get into the fray and take risks.

    • 70 posts
    February 28, 2017 9:53 AM PST

    Xilshale said:

    So you are proposing an agro free Mana Regen vs sitting and thereby increasing your agro radius?  I'm all in for phantom fighting then )

    Or you could offer another suggestion... ? being you had the DPS icon I'm assuming you don't play the support class?  We could always just change the Cleric into a healing rock you bring with you on your adventures.  Just bring it along and put it on the ground when you start fighting, oh wait... thats how it already works.

    Frankly, I'd still prefer to see the cleric put their defensive skills to use.  Even if "fighting" consists of me using my shield to defend someone else during the fight, choosing say the Wizard and guard.  I could apply my blocking/parrying, and heavy plate to interfere with blows directed at choosen individual.  After all why do I have a "Weapon" a "Shield" and "Heavy Armor" and not be proficient in their use?... or for that matter just sit on the ground during combat?

    Maybe we should just equip a pillow on our backside for the comfort of sitting all the time.


    This post was edited by Dwyvyrn at February 28, 2017 9:55 AM PST
    • 1327 posts
    February 28, 2017 10:43 AM PST

    Dwyvyrn said:

    Frankly, I'd still prefer to see the cleric put their defensive skills to use.  Even if "fighting" consists of me using my shield to defend someone else during the fight, choosing say the Wizard and guard.  I could apply my blocking/parrying, and heavy plate to interfere with blows directed at choosen individual. 

    Some of the most fun I've ever had was as a Cleric in DDO, where Clerics had a Positive Energy Aura and a Positive Energy Burst. The aura was a low-cost, longterm, short-radius AoE that periodically granted a small heal to all allies within that radius (centered on you). The Burst was a low-cost, quick cast, short-radius AoE that immediately healed all allies for a decent amount within that radius (always centered on you). Both of these abilities would ALSO damage any undead creatures that were within the same radius. With the right gear, these abilities could become quite powerful and were my bread-and-butter for healing. A great tool to simultaneously heal and deal damage. I rarely swung my mace, but I was always in the middle of the dps pile in heavy armor with my shield up actively blocking, so that I could survive while getting maximum efficiency from those two abilities. Because they cost little to no mana, this technique ended up being one of the best healing strategies. 

    That's a little off topic and I'm not necessarily suggesting that Pantheon have abilities exactly like this, but the point is that there are other ways (aside from melee) to get Clerics into the thick of the action, taking risks, constantly having to be aware and adjust their positioning. I don't like melee "battle clerics," but I also don't like sitting back and watching from a distance. I loved having the best of both worlds. That's why I suggested an item that grants you mana when you receive damage, rather than when you deal damage. Makes things a little more exciting :)

    • 70 posts
    February 28, 2017 1:36 PM PST

    Yea I don't disagree there are many workable options to involved clerics in combat in many forms.  I guess my point is that the Weapon, Shield and Heavy Plate aren't fashion statements or aesthetic choices.  If I'm proficient with a weapon at the very least I should be able to defend with it, if I have a shield I should be able to block with it and if I'm wearing Heavy Plate, and not a Robe, I'm expecting to be more than a casual observer in combat.

    If the intention is for clerics to "stand, cast, sit, med" don't bother giving them Plate to wear... maybe add a spring to their robe to help get them back up quickly.

    Plain and simple there should be more than one method for gaining back mana.  Equip a character based on their expected participation in combat, Equip a class based on their expected participation in combat.  Don't fit both into a slim definition of meditation so you have a guy in robes functioning the same in combat as a guy in full plate.  Clerics are blessed their abilities on behalf of dieties, mages gain their abilities from study and practice - this is why Clerics are able to multi-focus(gear/spellcasting) because the effort is not coming from internal but external.


    This post was edited by Dwyvyrn at February 28, 2017 2:28 PM PST
    • 168 posts
    March 4, 2017 4:53 AM PST

    What if the melee actually steals mana from the opponent. Instead of doing physical damage it does mana damage, produces agro, but rewards the cleric with a source to tap mana from that they would not normally have. And they become more active in the style of combat that they do, but perhaps have a greater risk for doing so.

    • 1327 posts
    March 6, 2017 6:56 AM PST

    Klumpedge said:

    What if the melee actually steals mana from the opponent. Instead of doing physical damage it does mana damage, produces agro, but rewards the cleric with a source to tap mana from that they would not normally have. And they become more active in the style of combat that they do, but perhaps have a greater risk for doing so.

    That's basically exactly what the OP is suggesting. I agree that it should generate aggro. However, I think something like this should be the exception rather than the rule. It should be limited to very rare special magic weapons (maces, flails, etc.) that are blessed in such a way to regen mana instead of deal damage. Although now that I think of it, if it's going to be so rare, I don't see a reason why it wouldn't be able to also deal some damage and just return a % of the damage as mana.

    Perhaps there could also just be a short-term self buff that allows you to regen mana from melee attacks instead of dealing damage.


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at March 6, 2017 6:57 AM PST
    • 38 posts
    March 8, 2017 10:38 PM PST

    Here is my only problem with it, actually, I've only ever encountered this in EQ, but sitting aggro. If you can meditate without sitting you would never get sitting aggro lol. I imagine since brad pretty much said this game is going to be difficult, the 20% hp aggro and sitting aggro will be back. 

     

    Other than that, it's pretty cool.

    • 1327 posts
    March 9, 2017 8:12 AM PST

    Dubah said:

    If you can meditate without sitting you would never get sitting aggro lol.

    Except it requires you to melee and your melee attacks would generate aggro. Additionally, being in the thick of the fight would put you at risk of taking collateral damage from AoE's and such. There's still risk involved.

    • 168 posts
    March 14, 2017 3:03 PM PDT

    This weapon is beginning to sound like a great *Epic Quest* item for the cleric.

    Hint.... Hint....

    • 70 posts
    March 16, 2017 11:14 AM PDT

    Klumpedge said:

    This weapon is beginning to sound like a great *Epic Quest* item for the cleric.

    Hint.... Hint....

    Personally, I'd rather see it as part of the class or not at all.  Making it a specific item makes it one of those group requests you get before being alowed to join - Its one thing for an item to be powerful its another thing for it to change the way the class functions.

    Just to reiterate, wearing platemail, has a shield and a blunt melee weapon.  Why am I sitting?

    • 168 posts
    March 17, 2017 5:31 PM PDT

    I have to say that I find myself agreeing with your point Dwyvyrn. Guess I always liked the "Epic" quests because they were not easy, but if the item gained changes the way the class functions, especially if it becomes a requirement to join a group, hmmm. You got me thinking on that one. Point well made.

    Plate, shield, and blunt weapon should = melee in some form, not sitting.


    This post was edited by Klumpedge at March 17, 2017 5:31 PM PDT