I don't know if EQ done anything like this as I never started playing MMO's actively until late 2001 with DAoC. The only thing I ever experience that did this was Vanilla WoW. You guys can search for the Gates of Ahn'Qiraj for more specific details but the main things that happened were people would have to gather materials and hand them in before there server had access to the new raid zone. It took a whole effort from the whole server to complete and took some servers months to finish. But the coolest part that I found about it was the quest that you could do to obtain a unique title and mount if you were one of the first to complete it. The quest was so hard and long(multiple raids that only dropped 1 of each item needed) that guilds had to generally pick one person to give all the items needed so they could finish before other raiding guilds. On most servers only 1-3 people got the title/mount because once the first person completed the quest there was like a 2 hour window or something where other people could also finish and gain the same thing. After the 2 hour window nobody else could gain the title/mount anymore but they could still get a nice epic weapon for their efforts.
I was never able to at the time be one of those luck few who got the title/mount but it was a cool feeling when you saw them in cities or running around. They were like the chosen "legends" of the server and really stood out. I know some might see this as unfair or whatever but I thought it was really cool to have some people on the server stand out and representing their guilds for helping them do it. It was a team effort with a 1 man reward but still very cool.
Do you guys like this sort of thing or do you disagree with it? Also @Kilsin can you confirm if these type of rewards is something you guys have been discussing or no(I know GM events will be a thing)?
EDIT - IGNORE THE MOUNT REWARD, THIS THREAD IS SOMETIMES GOING OFF TOPIC BECAUSE SOME PEOPLE HATE MOUNTS IN GENERAL.
I'm fine with limited time events, like how EQ did the fabled events every year in March. However, the completionist in me does not like the idea of unique rewards being given only to the first people to do something.
I like to have the opportunity to get all of the titles/achievements, and not feel like I have to race other players in order to get one. That's just me though.
I love server-wide collaborative quests. Historically, they do tend to be a bit grindy so that could be improved. The rigmarole you describe with hand-ins and only 3 people getting the title isn't a desirable part of the experience and shouldn't be replicated; that nonsense was the result of weak back-end systems and is completely avoidable these days.
(https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/4892/kerafyrm-in-pantheon/view/post_id/81299) - This seems to run along the same lines as what you have here. I think the both are a little different, but speak to the importance of huge memoriable events in MMOs that make MMOs great!
Wellspring said:I'm fine with limited time events, like how EQ did the fabled events every year in March. However, the completionist in me does not like the idea of unique rewards being given only to the first people to do something.
I like to have the opportunity to get all of the titles/achievements, and not feel like I have to race other players in order to get one. That's just me though.
Yeah I hear you and understand. I'm also super OCD and completionist but I still though it was cool.
I, personally, am not a fan of one-time events. I wouldn't mind something like a title, or an item being named after you *cough cough Faceguard of Bentos the Hero* if you or your guild accomplished a serverwide or system-wide first. But to me it just sucks that someone or a lot of people may miss out on something forever. I know not a lot of people share that opinion but it's just my 2cp
Quintra said:But to me it just sucks that someone or a lot of people may miss out on something forever.
I used to think this way, but then I realized that enjoyment isn't a zero-sum game. Other people enjoying something shouldn't detract from my enjoyment. I'm a happier person now.
I definitely wouldn't mind seeing events like the AQ opening, and I'm okay with titles as long as they are rare and we don't have everyone switching between fifty titles. Not into mounts, but if they must be in the game, I'd rather not have crazy bug mounts or pheonix mounts or other things like that. Horses and similar animals will do.
The way I see it is there will eventually be titles or items that become unobtainable forever no matter the mmo you play. I mean every mmo I have played for longer than a year has always had 1 or 2 things that become unobtainable due to expansions or re-design of a zone. It just happens even if the devs don't plan it themselves, so having this isn't much different to that in a sense. I mean would you never play a mmo you loved just because you took a break and missed out on something that was limited? Having unique things like this make having them feel epic in my opinion.
You could say the same for very hard raid bosses aswell. I mean a casual player will never ever get a hold of that "legendary" sword drop from the super strong raid boss because he doesn't have the time to raid with a guild of that level but does that mean there should never be super difficult raid content? It's pratically the same thing as this in a sense. Just my two coppers.
Dont have a problem with the overall concept. Not a fan of mounts or pets in general so I wouldnt want it to focus on these type things only. I know mounts will be in the game but I also dont want to see 671 different mounts. I seriously think a handful will work just fine.
Amsai said:Dont have a problem with the overall concept. Not a fan of mounts or pets in general so I wouldnt want it to focus on these type things only. I know mounts will be in the game but I also dont want to see 671 different mounts. I seriously think a handful will work just fine.
Yeah if they did do it they could just add special armor for your horse or something like that.
I seriously cannot understand people that are so strongly against mounts. WoW definitely over-did them. But mounts can still be an amazing way to show off your prestige as well as being practical, as they were in classic EQ. And the events you are describing are a good example. These things are probably more instantly identifiable than a particular weapon or armor. I think it's important to have certain events that will only happen once. It makes those who are in attendance truly feel privileged and lucky to be able to witness it first hand. And then the stories that are passed on for years inspire wonder into new players that wish more than anything that they could have been there. Those stories are priceless. For example, as much as I desperately wish I could have witness the killing of the Sleeper (honestly if I had a time machine, that's the first thing I'd do) but I also realize that not everyone can have the same experiences. It's important to keep things special. And for me, even just letting my imagination of it is special in and of itself. But anyway, if I saw someone that had a "the Dragonslayer" title for killing the Sleeper or some glorious armored warhorse or whatever that couldn't be found anywhere else in the game, I would probably drool over them and ask them what it was like, etc. And those are definitely the sort of interactions that Pantheon is aiming for.
I don't have a problem with the concept.
GM events I don't mind whatever they dish out to whomever, as those tend to be pop-up little fun bits and the items they gave more often than not were just different drops already in the game. I do remember some one-of things given out by GMs, like a player on my server got a no-drop necklace that allowed him to summon a low level bear pet as a warrior. It was mostly just flavor to him since he was max level but still cool. I also liked the pre-nerf versions of various items still existing (for most things) even if I never got or had a chance at some of them. I'm a bit tired of the whole "well I want it too, I should be able to also get X because I pay!" Some things are just unique, and that's okay.
Stephen said:The way I see it is there will eventually be titles or items that become unobtainable forever no matter the mmo you play. I mean every mmo I have played for longer than a year has always had 1 or 2 things that become unobtainable due to expansions or re-design of a zone. It just happens even if the devs don't plan it themselves, so having this isn't much different to that in a sense. I mean would you never play a mmo you loved just because you took a break and missed out on something that was limited? Having unique things like this make having them feel epic in my opinion.
You could say the same for very hard raid bosses aswell. I mean a casual player will never ever get a hold of that "legendary" sword drop from the super strong raid boss because he doesn't have the time to raid with a guild of that level but does that mean there should never be super difficult raid content? It's pratically the same thing as this in a sense. Just my two coppers.
No you're absolutely right. I know it happens in other games and it will happen in Pantheon too. It's just not my favorite thing. And no I certainly wouldn't not play a game I liked just because I took a break and missed out on stuff while on break. But there's a bit of a difference between missing out on content when it was new, and having it go away entirely. I would take nostalgic walks through the Western Wastes sometimes, and sure it wasn't the threat that it once was, but the option to go back was still there, see if Sontalak or Klandicar were up. Or when we "raided" plane of time with like 4 people and a bunch of alts. Just the ability to go back and experience stuff even if it's a decade old is what I enjoy sometimes.
Stephen said:The way I see it is there will eventually be titles or items that become unobtainable forever no matter the mmo you play. I mean every mmo I have played for longer than a year has always had 1 or 2 things that become unobtainable due to expansions or re-design of a zone. It just happens even if the devs don't plan it themselves, so having this isn't much different to that in a sense. I mean would you never play a mmo you loved just because you took a break and missed out on something that was limited? Having unique things like this make having them feel epic in my opinion.
I may be in the minority, but that's one of the main reasons I do not play older MMO's. I went back to EQ2 after years away. I joining an established server, and hated seeing, in my achievements book, a list of completely unobtainable achievements from special events from years ago or raid bosses that no one killed anymore.
Stephen said:You could say the same for very hard raid bosses aswell. I mean a casual player will never ever get a hold of that "legendary" sword drop from the super strong raid boss because he doesn't have the time to raid with a guild of that level but does that mean there should never be super difficult raid content? It's pratically the same thing as this in a sense. Just my two coppers.
That may be true, except for one thing -- perception. As long as there is still the same chance as everyone else at getting something I will be interested. I may never actually get the legendary sword, but at least I can still try. It's like the Dumb and Dumber quote...
The AQ gate opening was a massive event that sprawled on for weeks on most servers. Main reason it worked, simply because of the one time title/mount that could be obtained by opening it first. Every top end guild on the server pushed for that and pushed hard.
Kerafym aka the sleeper - another great idea that came out of a mishap. Kera was never intended to even be attempted much less actually killed. Took over 200 people upwards of 4 hours to down her iirc. During that GMs even despawned her because she wasn't designed to be beaten. After the outrage from the community they were forced to put her back. For those that have no idea what this was, Kerafym was a dragon in EQ that only spawned once per server. She roamed the continent for about 6 hours then despawned forever. She basically one shot everything including tanks and had more than triple the HP of any current time raid boss. No one was ever expected to be able to kill her. So much so that she didnt even have a loot table. But we don't like being told "you can't do that", so 1 server did something about it and won.
These types of things are awesome and a great thing to be a part of. But I truely hate anything that is completely "unique". If only 1 person on a server can get something then why put it in the game? By the time people even know about it it's already over and done with.
Amsai said: @Bazgrim Can't speak for others but I just prefer a world of no mounts. For instance I walk everywhere in Skyrim. Don't port or ride anything except when I have to. And I just find it more fun I guess. It's not even that I want to travel slower so much as I just like exploring and walking. And if this was a solo game no problem I can ignore the mounts. As its not and you will often have folks waiting/depending on you. Walking is not an option. So In most group/alliance settings I can't justify making my them wait 20 mins when I can do it in 10. Never played an MMO where they went crazy with mounts like WoW except XIV but I left well before that happened.
I am back and forth about mounts myself only because I feel it cheapens player based movement speed buffs, but I know for characters that don't have them they love the hell out of mounts. If anything I guess I hope mounts are rare or from some off the beaten path "jboot"-esque quest.
Enitzu said:The AQ gate opening was a massive event that sprawled on for weeks on most servers. Main reason it worked, simply because of the one time title/mount that could be obtained by opening it first. Every top end guild on the server pushed for that and pushed hard.
Kerafym aka the sleeper - another great idea that came out of a mishap. Kera was never intended to even be attempted much less actually killed. Took over 200 people upwards of 4 hours to down her iirc. During that GMs even despawned her because she wasn't designed to be beaten. After the outrage from the community they were forced to put her back. For those that have no idea what this was, Kerafym was a dragon in EQ that only spawned once per server. She roamed the continent for about 6 hours then despawned forever. She basically one shot everything including tanks and had more than triple the HP of any current time raid boss. No one was ever expected to be able to kill her. So much so that she didnt even have a loot table. But we don't like being told "you can't do that", so 1 server did something about it and won.
These types of things are awesome and a great thing to be a part of. But I truely hate anything that is completely "unique". If only 1 person on a server can get something then why put it in the game? By the time people even know about it it's already over and done with.
The AQ gate stuff you listed is false, the although it was limitied time, it was for everyone that hit the gong in that time. Also, Blizzard had come out over the last few years saying how that was basically a terrible event they did on many levels. Limited time mount being one of them.
I'm honestly shocked by how much angst there is around the topic of mounts. Are you paying attention, VR? There's something going on here that you might not be aware of.
Iksar said:I am back and forth about mounts myself...
Right there with ya, buddy. Unsure, but I think it depends on the size of the world.
Shai said:Quintra said:But to me it just sucks that someone or a lot of people may miss out on something forever.
I used to think this way, but then I realized that enjoyment isn't a zero-sum game. Other people enjoying something shouldn't detract from my enjoyment. I'm a happier person now.
Well said, Shai. I need to remind myself of that once in awhile myself.
Iksar said:Amsai said: @Bazgrim Can't speak for others but I just prefer a world of no mounts. For instance I walk everywhere in Skyrim. Don't port or ride anything except when I have to. And I just find it more fun I guess. It's not even that I want to travel slower so much as I just like exploring and walking. And if this was a solo game no problem I can ignore the mounts. As its not and you will often have folks waiting/depending on you. Walking is not an option. So In most group/alliance settings I can't justify making my them wait 20 mins when I can do it in 10. Never played an MMO where they went crazy with mounts like WoW except XIV but I left well before that happened.
I am back and forth about mounts myself only because I feel it cheapens player based movement speed buffs, but I know for characters that don't have them they love the hell out of mounts. If anything I guess I hope mounts are rare or from some off the beaten path "jboot"-esque quest.
Why not allow player-based speed buffs to stack with mount speed? Mount speeds can always be set lower than buff speeds, so if none are available a person can still run around at a bit faster pace. Why can't a shaman buff a horse's speed? Or a chicken, for that matter? Give players mounts, but make them still want to seek out players that can buff their movement. I dunno, just an idea.