Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Opinion on Acclimation System

    • 2 posts
    January 16, 2017 6:42 PM PST

    Just got done watching the December stream and I am extremely excited to play this game. I was wondering what you guys thought about the acclimation system. I know there are a lot of things be to hashed out, but from what I saw on the stream, it seems like an arbitrary handicap that doesn't add much to the game. I like the idea of having different gear for environments, but I got the impression most of acclimation will be gained from consumables, which I'm not too keen on.

    I am envisioning having to grind for consumables so I can enter an area without being handicapped for a few hours. I believe this system would be much better if there was a more permanent solution to acclimation. For example, fighting more in a frigid environment passively improves acclimation towards that environment (which kind of makes sense when considering the word "acclimation").

    What do you guys think? How do you envision the acclimation system panning out?

     

     

     

    • 1618 posts
    January 16, 2017 6:45 PM PST

    Like the perception & progeny systems, we don't know enough about acclimation to make any reasonable opinion.

    How about we wait until the systems are detailed before we criticize and debate their attributes.

    • 220 posts
    January 16, 2017 6:50 PM PST

    VR has always stated that there will be multiple methods and teirs to acclimation

    Off the top of my head they have stated (possibly) racial inates, situational gear, ability layering, consumables, colored mana, time spent, and quest rewards are all possibilities to gaining teirs of acclimation.   

    Personally, I love that the environment can kill me, and am happy to explore dangerous environments that house amazing treasure =).

    • 234 posts
    January 16, 2017 7:05 PM PST

    Larr said:

    VR has always stated that there will be multiple methods and teirs to acclimation

    Off the top of my head they have stated (possibly) racial inates, situational gear, ability layering, consumables, colored mana, time spent, and quest rewards are all possibilities to gaining teirs of acclimation.   

    Personally, I love that the environment can kill me, and am happy to explore dangerous environments that house amazing treasure =).

    What I took away is that its likely skill based with ties to your natural resists plus any stat items and buffs/consumables that may stack.  Higher tiers require higher skill to master.

    I believe there was one place in some stream where they handed out items you could wear that allowed access to the environment.  You would have to of course go find this item on your own if your not a GM.

    I could be completely wrong too, but thats kind of how I envisioned it from their description of it.

    Sounds like a very cool system to me.

     

    • 58 posts
    January 16, 2017 7:07 PM PST
    The whole idea fighting I frigid weather and being within it for so long without magical attributes to fight against cold would make it more interesting and would force players to dress up warm if the situation would be dire. Being prepared I love the whole idea.

    Learning at an early stage what these weather patterns can do to someone while travelling in there would make us appreciate later levels. Or even create new tactics or strategies to raid specific targets.

    Same goes for the hot weather too
    • 284 posts
    January 16, 2017 7:11 PM PST

    I wonder if Mountain climbers think hiking boots and parkas are arbitrary handicaps on their ability to complete climbs.

    • 780 posts
    January 16, 2017 7:18 PM PST

    I definitely did not get the feeling that most of your acclimation will come from consumables.  To me it seems like it comes mostly from equipment, training (skill), and buffs or other spell effects.

    • 839 posts
    January 16, 2017 10:24 PM PST

    So many things to yet be revealed on this system, being able to survive in the environment may just be one part of it, it may even change how spells work or the power of them and make us have to change tactics depending on what effects it has on various elemental spells etc.  No source on this just a thought!  Maybe drawing mobs in and or out of the different areas might actually negatively/positively impact them too?

    • 1778 posts
    January 16, 2017 10:41 PM PST

    Shucklighter said:

    I definitely did not get the feeling that most of your acclimation will come from consumables.  To me it seems like it comes mostly from equipment, training (skill), and buffs or other spell effects.

     

    This.

    • 780 posts
    January 17, 2017 5:13 AM PST

    Hokanu said:

    ...Maybe drawing mobs in and or out of the different areas might actually negatively/positively impact them too?

     

    I'm hoping that's the case.  I can imagine being able to set up camp in a very cold environment and maybe have a druid maintain a small radius of warmth around your camp.  Then I'd love to see mobs from the cold environment debuffed when pulled into the little warm zone.

    • 2886 posts
    January 17, 2017 5:41 AM PST

    I think acclimation is an interesting feature that is unique to Pantheon. It really adds an extra element of danger and realism to adventuring that you must plan for ahead of time. It also has the potential to give Druids a new awesome playstyle with lots of strategy. As others have said, I did not at all get the impression that consumables would be the primary way to acclimate. If that were the case, it would definitely be more of an annoyance than anything. But I think there will enough ways to gain permanent/semi-permanent acclimation that it will be another cool dimension of character progression.

    • 1303 posts
    January 17, 2017 5:52 AM PST

    Shucklighter said:

    Hokanu said:

    ...Maybe drawing mobs in and or out of the different areas might actually negatively/positively impact them too?

     

    I'm hoping that's the case.  I can imagine being able to set up camp in a very cold environment and maybe have a druid maintain a small radius of warmth around your camp.  Then I'd love to see mobs from the cold environment debuffed when pulled into the little warm zone.

    I havent finsihed more morning coffee, so maybe I'm completely full of crap here. But in the first stream wasnt there actually an example of how this might work? When fighting up to the ruins, and passing near the formations that had the runes floating around them there was a snare effect, and a health drain. That's in part why they were pulling mobs back, and why at one point they were just charging ahead somewhat blindly, to get thru the effect and find a survivable location to fight. It killed off more than a couple of the group, and maybe caused a wipe? 

    I know those were pretty localised effects, maybe 20-30 yards in diameter. But there's no reason the same kind of thing couldnt be expanded to larger areas, or even a whole zone. Having gear/buffs/etc that at the very least mitigate the effects wouldnt bother me at all. Even if they were consumables. Maybe consumables would be a good short term alternative to more difficult to obtain gear, allowing you to enter the areas to complete a quest, but not giving the advantage of grinding xp there? 


    This post was edited by Feyshtey at January 17, 2017 5:53 AM PST
    • 60 posts
    January 17, 2017 6:41 AM PST

    Acclimation is one of my top five things for sure that this game is doing. I also did not get the impression either that it will be from consumables, like other's have said they have spoken more like it's going to be gear/faction/time spent/etc to acquire permanent or semi-permanent ways to the environments. Whatever way they decide to do it, i'm sure i'll love it either way.

    • 780 posts
    January 17, 2017 7:03 AM PST

    Feyshtey said:

    I havent finsihed more morning coffee, so maybe I'm completely full of crap here. But in the first stream wasnt there actually an example of how this might work? When fighting up to the ruins, and passing near the formations that had the runes floating around them there was a snare effect, and a health drain. That's in part why they were pulling mobs back, and why at one point they were just charging ahead somewhat blindly, to get thru the effect and find a survivable location to fight. It killed off more than a couple of the group, and maybe caused a wipe? 

    I know those were pretty localised effects, maybe 20-30 yards in diameter. But there's no reason the same kind of thing couldnt be expanded to larger areas, or even a whole zone. Having gear/buffs/etc that at the very least mitigate the effects wouldnt bother me at all. Even if they were consumables. Maybe consumables would be a good short term alternative to more difficult to obtain gear, allowing you to enter the areas to complete a quest, but not giving the advantage of grinding xp there? 

     

    Yes, that happened.  You weren't dreaming.  Haha.  Now, what I'm hoping is that players will have the ability to create small areas similar to that, and that mobs who are not acclimated will be adversely affected by them.  Maybe rather than casting an AE DoT, a necro could place a small patch of that very same environment (with a longer duration than DoTs generally have...say five or ten minutes) to which you are referring, and his group could position themselves so that the mobs are affected by that field while fighting. 

     

    Further, I'm hoping druids will be able to put up small patches of different climates that wouldn't harm a mob that is acclimated to that climate, but would be a problem for a mob that is not.  In my patch of warmth example, the effect would not only debuff the cold mobs, but would also provide shelter from the cold for the druid and his party.

     

    Allowing players to change bits of the environment like this would allow for some pretty cool abilities for a majority of classes, I'd say.  Some healers could put up patches with tiny HoTs in them...maybe Enchanters could put up mana regen patches...Paladins and Clerics could put up anti-undead patches...Shamans could put up slow (attack speed) patches...so many abilities could work this way.

     

    All of this is coming from someone who likes to set up camps and sit at them for hours, so if they are going with more of the dungeon crawl plan, I guess we won't see that kind of stuff.  Not sure how much chance we have of seeing it anyway, but I think it would be pretty sweet if it worked that way.

    • 1778 posts
    January 17, 2017 7:07 AM PST

    In one of the Newsletters Brad actually gives a small example of Druid controlling the atmosphere for their group. So I expect Druid to be able to help mitigate some amount of needed acclimation as well as use those atmospheric auras for similtaneously buffing/debuffing. Among other things.

    • 2886 posts
    January 17, 2017 8:06 AM PST

    Shucklighter said:

    Feyshtey said:

    I havent finsihed more morning coffee, so maybe I'm completely full of crap here. But in the first stream wasnt there actually an example of how this might work? When fighting up to the ruins, and passing near the formations that had the runes floating around them there was a snare effect, and a health drain. That's in part why they were pulling mobs back, and why at one point they were just charging ahead somewhat blindly, to get thru the effect and find a survivable location to fight. It killed off more than a couple of the group, and maybe caused a wipe? 

    I know those were pretty localised effects, maybe 20-30 yards in diameter. But there's no reason the same kind of thing couldnt be expanded to larger areas, or even a whole zone. Having gear/buffs/etc that at the very least mitigate the effects wouldnt bother me at all. Even if they were consumables. Maybe consumables would be a good short term alternative to more difficult to obtain gear, allowing you to enter the areas to complete a quest, but not giving the advantage of grinding xp there? 

     

    Yes, that happened.  You weren't dreaming.  Haha.  Now, what I'm hoping is that players will have the ability to create small areas similar to that, and that mobs who are not acclimated will be adversely affected by them.  Maybe rather than casting an AE DoT, a necro could place a small patch of that very same environment (with a longer duration than DoTs generally have...say five or ten minutes) to which you are referring, and his group could position themselves so that the mobs are affected by that field while fighting. 

     

    Further, I'm hoping druids will be able to put up small patches of different climates that wouldn't harm a mob that is acclimated to that climate, but would be a problem for a mob that is not.  In my patch of warmth example, the effect would not only debuff the cold mobs, but would also provide shelter from the cold for the druid and his party.

     

    Allowing players to change bits of the environment like this would allow for some pretty cool abilities for a majority of classes, I'd say.  Some healers could put up patches with tiny HoTs in them...maybe Enchanters could put up mana regen patches...Paladins and Clerics could put up anti-undead patches...Shamans could put up slow (attack speed) patches...so many abilities could work this way.

     

    All of this is coming from someone who likes to set up camps and sit at them for hours, so if they are going with more of the dungeon crawl plan, I guess we won't see that kind of stuff.  Not sure how much chance we have of seeing it anyway, but I think it would be pretty sweet if it worked that way.

    I'm pretty sure Brad already said in the last stream that this would be possible. Druids will be able to create little auras of safety for their group in an otherwise harmful climate. And conversely, if a mob is vulnerable to a particular climate, a druid can create a pocket of that climate around the mobs to essentially debuff them.

    However, I'd like to have a dev confirm my theory that Climates and Atmospheres are NOT synonymous. Correct me if I'm wrong, Climates are Frigid, Scorching, Anaerobic, Wind Sheer, Toxic, and Pressure. These usually cover entire zones or large parts of zones and are generally related to weather or temperature. Atmospheres are smaller, static AOE's that are usually caused by magic. (Like the auras around the purple crystals in the first stream). That's how I look at it anyway and I think it's important to differentiate the two when discussing acclimation.

    • 780 posts
    January 17, 2017 8:18 AM PST

    Bazgrim said:

    I'm pretty sure Brad already said in the last stream that this would be possible. Druids will be able to create little auras of safety for their group in an otherwise harmful climate. And conversely, if a mob is vulnerable to a particular climate, a druid can create a pocket of that climate around the mobs to essentially debuff them.

     

    Great!  I'll have to watch it again!  I suppose you are right about Climates and Atmospheres.  I guess atmospheres are much smaller and simpler.  Rather than needing gear, skill, and buffs to survive, you may only need a single item or buff, like the magic ring they had.  They are still similar, though, and I'd love to see something like I described where players can alter climates in a small area, or create a small area of a certain atmosphere.

    • 159 posts
    January 17, 2017 8:50 AM PST
    Summoner role: climate buff summoned temporary items.
    Druid role: pbae climate bubbles
    Enchanter role: chain mez that red con in the druids climate bubble while the party wears the summoned jewelry

    Hmmm makes me wonder if a druid climate change can screw over or kill the group, friendly fire like? Would add a whole new level of complexity.
    • 780 posts
    January 17, 2017 9:10 AM PST

    Xilshale said: Summoner role: climate buff summoned temporary items. Druid role: pbae climate bubbles Enchanter role: chain mez that red con in the druids climate bubble while the party wears the summoned jewelry Hmmm makes me wonder if a druid climate change can screw over or kill the group, friendly fire like? Would add a whole new level of complexity.

     

    I'd rather the druid bubbles be targeted AE, I think.

     

    I also wonder about the friendly fire thing with this.  I'd hope so, but I'm not sure.  I guess they could end up just letting the druid sort of neutralize the environment, but it would be cool to maybe get a group with both arctic and dessert gear, go into an arctic zone, set up a dessert bubble and have everyone put on their dessert stuff inside.  Then have someone pull the cold mobs into the dessert for huge debuffs/DoT.  I like the level of strategy that allows for.

    • 159 posts
    January 17, 2017 9:22 AM PST

    Shucklighter said:

    I'd rather the druid bubbles be targeted AE, I think.

     

    I'd personally rather use player skill to pull a mob into a specific climate affected area pull after pull rather then target, cast, and try to keep it in a random spot fighting against its natural pathing route, ai, melee and spell push :p

    I'm lazy that way.

    And I'll never suggest targeted ground effects (like half the abilities in wow) as I absolutely despise that type of mechanic as a personal bias.

     

    Aaaaand, they never said how common climate shifts will be (afaik ).  This may be for naught if the ability is the class iconic ability on a longish CD.

     

    Regardless tho it has great potential for stragety.  


    This post was edited by Xilshale at January 17, 2017 9:24 AM PST
    • 2886 posts
    January 17, 2017 9:40 AM PST

    Xilshale said: Hmmm makes me wonder if a druid climate change can screw over or kill the group, friendly fire like? Would add a whole new level of complexity.

    They would absolutely have to. The climate itself changes in a small area. Just like a naturally generated climate, it doesn't matter who or what is in it, it treats them all accordingly for all purposes. If your group is not acclimated to that climate, then you should have thought of that before you casted it, even if it is adversely affecting the mobs you're fighting. There'd be no logical reason for the players to suddenly be immune to the same cold, for example, that is affecting NPCs.

    Edit: I would suggest however that climate "bubbles" have the option to either be canceled or relocated.


    This post was edited by Bazgrim at January 17, 2017 9:43 AM PST
    • 780 posts
    January 17, 2017 10:06 AM PST

    See, I think it's lazier to have the long duration, reticle-targeted bubble.  Set up your camp once and enjoy it for a while.  That's why I like it.  Haha.  Either way, though.  I think if it's short duration and long recast, it will basically be a gimmick and will not be too useful.  Bazgrim may be onto something with moving the 'bubble', since we already know clerics will do something similar with their pillar shields.

    • 839 posts
    January 17, 2017 10:33 PM PST

    Feyshtey said:

    Shucklighter said:

    Hokanu said:

    ...Maybe drawing mobs in and or out of the different areas might actually negatively/positively impact them too?

     

    I'm hoping that's the case.  I can imagine being able to set up camp in a very cold environment and maybe have a druid maintain a small radius of warmth around your camp.  Then I'd love to see mobs from the cold environment debuffed when pulled into the little warm zone.

    I havent finsihed more morning coffee, so maybe I'm completely full of crap here. But in the first stream wasnt there actually an example of how this might work? When fighting up to the ruins, and passing near the formations that had the runes floating around them there was a snare effect, and a health drain. That's in part why they were pulling mobs back, and why at one point they were just charging ahead somewhat blindly, to get thru the effect and find a survivable location to fight. It killed off more than a couple of the group, and maybe caused a wipe? 

    I know those were pretty localised effects, maybe 20-30 yards in diameter. But there's no reason the same kind of thing couldnt be expanded to larger areas, or even a whole zone. Having gear/buffs/etc that at the very least mitigate the effects wouldnt bother me at all. Even if they were consumables. Maybe consumables would be a good short term alternative to more difficult to obtain gear, allowing you to enter the areas to complete a quest, but not giving the advantage of grinding xp there? 

    Haha i have had those second guessing pre coffee moments at work all to often! :)

    Your exactly right, but i meant maybe we add a bit of a twist that maybe the mobs are slightly effected by leaving the area they are suited to... or maybe you get unlucky and they are even more powerful in an alternative environment and your group learns a harsh lesson!

    • 780 posts
    January 18, 2017 7:44 PM PST

    Bazgrim said:

    I'm pretty sure Brad already said in the last stream that this would be possible. Druids will be able to create little auras of safety for their group in an otherwise harmful climate. And conversely, if a mob is vulnerable to a particular climate, a druid can create a pocket of that climate around the mobs to essentially debuff them.

     

    Okay, found it.  I think it's Ceythos.  He says, "One of the cool things that we're wanting to do beyond crowd control is something that I call 'encounter control', which is when you get into things like atmospheres and environments, certain classes, like a druid for example, may be able to change the actual climate or atmosphere of a given area, which will have adverse effects on ,say, like a boss for example.  So, it could be that the boss has some kind of intense frost resistance, some kind of frost shield that's totally impenetrable, or maybe is just highly mitigative, and the druid could come in and change the climate of the room to a scorching climate that would render, for a period of time or for the duration of the fight, that shield much less effective or completely circumvent the effect of the shield."

     

    So we'll probably be able to change the climates and atmospheres, but not sure how big the area of effect will be or how players will 'place' that area of change into the game.  This does give me the vibe that this would be an ability that could be used pretty regularly and not be on a long cool down, though.

    • 220 posts
    January 18, 2017 8:17 PM PST
    Not acclimation but there seems to be a lot of discussion about climates etc. So thought some could be interested to guess how it applies to acclimation.
    May 26,2016. http://www.mmorpg.com/mobile/features.cfm?read=10876&game=1006&ismb=1