Forums » The Warrior

To Shield or not to Shield

    • 8 posts
    June 9, 2019 5:24 PM PDT

    I dunno man, I feel like forcing us to use a shield is kind of putting warriors into a box. I mean, there are historical warriors who have used two weapons and own the competition. For example, Musashi with his duel katana style or Dein Wei of romance of the three kingdoms renown, who used two axes (or two Chinese halberds depending on the translations). I used to main a warrior back in EQ and I used to love imagining my self as this massive juggernaut who could just take all the hits and still dish out the pain. 

    Also, we are warriors. If I wanted to see my self as some sort of squad based phalanx unit, then maybe soldier would of been a better name for it? I am fully commited to reviving my old Ogre Warrior, but it would take some of the magic out of it for me if they forced me to use a board and sword. 

    My biggest concern as well is the role of min/maxing in this game. Its why I steered clear of WoW and hated FFXI. Everyone became this cookie cutter 'best combo' just to get a group. Oneof my fonder memories in EQ is being an Ogre tank and having a halfling wipe the floor with me due to his gear which was stamina focused. 

    In all honest, I just want to relive the days of tanking with a Wurmslayer and a Short Sword of the Ykesha in the off hand. 

    Maybe if they gave us the choice to focus on a style of tanking, like dodge, shield or HP based..?

    Just my two pence.

    • 620 posts
    June 28, 2019 5:25 PM PDT

    Voss said:

    I dunno man, I feel like forcing us to use a shield is kind of putting warriors into a box. I mean, there are historical warriors who have used two weapons and own the competition. For example, Musashi with his duel katana style or Dein Wei of romance of the three kingdoms renown, who used two axes (or two Chinese halberds depending on the translations). I used to main a warrior back in EQ and I used to love imagining my self as this massive juggernaut who could just take all the hits and still dish out the pain. 

    Also, we are warriors. If I wanted to see my self as some sort of squad based phalanx unit, then maybe soldier would of been a better name for it? I am fully commited to reviving my old Ogre Warrior, but it would take some of the magic out of it for me if they forced me to use a board and sword. 

    My biggest concern as well is the role of min/maxing in this game. Its why I steered clear of WoW and hated FFXI. Everyone became this cookie cutter 'best combo' just to get a group. Oneof my fonder memories in EQ is being an Ogre tank and having a halfling wipe the floor with me due to his gear which was stamina focused. 

    In all honest, I just want to relive the days of tanking with a Wurmslayer and a Short Sword of the Ykesha in the off hand. 

    Maybe if they gave us the choice to focus on a style of tanking, like dodge, shield or HP based..?

    Just my two pence.

    I hear ya Voss.  I would like nothing more than to relive my days as a shadowknight, but this game doesn't have SHD.  I did however jump onto project1999 (p99) the vanilla EQ private server, and loved it.  If you are looking to relive your Wurmy/ykesha Ogre warrior killing spree, I recommend chekcing that out before PRotF goes live.  It will also help jog your memory out of the nostalgic memories and refresh how much of a hell it was to advance without having an established base (which PRotF will not have).  

    I don't mind the abilities having an emphasis on shields because it only does so if you are trying to tank, in which case you shouldn't be doing more damage than the other classes.  (A warrior however should be able to do as much damage as any other melee... as you said, given the title of "warrior".  Its like saying a boxer isn't capable of hurting someone compared to someone in karate or someone who hits people when they aren't looking... silly.  I do however understand not dealing as much damage if you're hiding behind a shield though.)


    This post was edited by Darch at June 28, 2019 5:27 PM PDT
    • 22 posts
    July 11, 2019 3:07 AM PDT

    Jamie said:

    That is the question. Do you think that warriors should or will use a shield in Pantheon or duel wield when tanking? 

    In EQ it was possible to use a 1h only and shield or 2h but that was not the best option for the warrior in most situations IMO. In EQ2 they kept nerfing the game until the shield was required to tank. Depending on how bad ass you were, some of us could pull off raiding while DW on all but the hardest raid mobs but this required the full set of end game gear which few Guardians were sporting.

    I have seen it done many ways over many games but it seems like the idea of being "defensive" while duel wielding is dead (Until the last stream). What weapons do you expect the warrior to use while tanking? What do you prefer? What is your experience? Are you a 2H fan? Do you even care?

    In EQ2 on many raid mobs you were better off dual wielding, and hot swapping your shield like a temp buff while debuffs were re-applied by teammates or your stoneskins were on cool, etc. Guardian was very dynamic in eq2 and am hoping Pantheon Warrior will be as well.  A shield is another tool in your tool box. Use when needed. Early on im sure it will be often but as you gain experience, (and levels), you will figure out other strategies as well.


    This post was edited by Hemlock at July 11, 2019 3:16 AM PDT
    • 39 posts
    August 4, 2019 12:24 PM PDT

    The reason I quit playing Warrior classes, (you must use a shield to tank mentality) I dunno why but I never did like shields, I guess it's my old EQ mentality where my Warrior could tank not matter what weapon he used, the real issue was always keeping aggro, not how I took a hit.

     

    I've hated this since vanilla WoW, and I still hate the need to use a shield for tanking today. So I see this as yet another game I wont be playing a Warrior in.

     

    I'd probably play a Warrior here if I could tank with my choice of weapons, I also don't see the need to take away shield use for people who like that kind of thing and if they do then all the power to them! but needing a shield to be an effective tank? no thanks!


    This post was edited by Drauk4131 at August 4, 2019 12:29 PM PDT
    • 620 posts
    August 16, 2019 8:52 AM PDT

    Drauk4131 said:

    The reason I quit playing Warrior classes, (you must use a shield to tank mentality) I dunno why but I never did like shields, I guess it's my old EQ mentality where my Warrior could tank not matter what weapon he used, the real issue was always keeping aggro, not how I took a hit.

     

    I've hated this since vanilla WoW, and I still hate the need to use a shield for tanking today. So I see this as yet another game I wont be playing a Warrior in.

     

    I'd probably play a Warrior here if I could tank with my choice of weapons, I also don't see the need to take away shield use for people who like that kind of thing and if they do then all the power to them! but needing a shield to be an effective tank? no thanks!

    I wouldn't completely count out the warrior simply based on the use of a shield or not if you are looking to tank - Just like in the other games that you listed, it wasn't absolutely necassary to use a shiled to tank unless you couldn't take the hits without one... with that said, the warrior will have the highest armor without a shield and capable of using every weapon for a reason.  I think its a safe assumption that you won't need to use a shield for trash mobs most of the time (depending on your gear and party makeup).  The DL will be the tank that can't use a shield, and the Paladin can't dual wield (although I have some assumptions on how being able to time 2h weapon swings and cast spells may be a skill required by Paladin players depending on the GCD/ST/AA mechanics I have yet to witness.

    • 2379 posts
    August 16, 2019 1:58 PM PDT

    Darch said:

    I wouldn't completely count out the warrior simply based on the use of a shield or not if you are looking to tank - Just like in the other games that you listed, it wasn't absolutely necassary to use a shiled to tank unless you couldn't take the hits without one... with that said, the warrior will have the highest armor without a shield and capable of using every weapon for a reason.  I think its a safe assumption that you won't need to use a shield for trash mobs most of the time (depending on your gear and party makeup).  The DL will be the tank that can't use a shield, and the Paladin can't dual wield (although I have some assumptions on how being able to time 2h weapon swings and cast spells may be a skill required by Paladin players depending on the GCD/ST/AA mechanics I have yet to witness.

    I sincerely hope that isn't the case, unless by trash mobs you mean maybe a party fighting low blue con mobs and generally being inefficient.  

    • 620 posts
    August 17, 2019 3:24 PM PDT

    Iksar said:

    I sincerely hope that isn't the case, unless by trash mobs you mean maybe a party fighting low blue con mobs and generally being inefficient.  

    What I mean by trash mobs is NPCs not worth time using strategy or CC and could likely hit a caster without killing them in a few seconds.  "Efficiency" is knowing that increasing your DPS (and having your healer actually heal) is more efficient than taking longer to kill NPCs just so the healer can sit and watch because the tank is taking no damage.

    (If all NPCs need to be tanked with a shield, the DL will be an absolutely horrible choice for a main tank in any situation other than a "pure" caster that is immune to interrupts/CC.)

    • 2379 posts
    August 19, 2019 10:51 AM PDT

    That's a limited way of thinking and only true if they didn't design the DL with lack of shield (and Warrior + Paladin with) in mind in terms of ability to tank. 

     

    Any group mobs equal or higher level better be worth the time to use CC/strategy or otherwise require groups to employ non-lazy tactics or this game will be a joke. If people can more or less just watch Netflix while passively playing/farming "trash" mobs then adios Pantheon. 

    • 620 posts
    August 23, 2019 2:23 PM PDT

    I get what you're saying @iksar, but there will be a point in the game where players will outgear and outlevel content (otherwise there's literally no reason to obtain gear i.e. no reason to progress in an MMO after a couple of years).  There absolutely will be encounters where a well geared (and skilled) player will be able to multitask, otherwise "adios Pantheon" because it will likely be too challenging for some if only the most skilled player can defeat an encounter if they dedicate 100% of their attention 100% of the time to a video game.  That just won't happen.