Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Preempt Over Leveled Farmers

    • 58 posts
    January 3, 2017 8:57 PM PST

    Grey mobs shouldn't drop loot period.  I honestly think this activity goes against several tenets published by the team.  There is no risk for the reward with the high level selling it to get money for better gear or for the alt getting the upgrade.  It's against the spirit of community as your soloing group content preventing others from enjoying the game for personal needs.  The comments about 'entitlement' and 'locking content' are just excuses to defend their entitlement to lock content for their own gain nothing more. Loot is a symbol of power the higher level gear should look and be better otherwise what's the point of doing that content?  

     

     

     

     


    This post was edited by leafnin at January 3, 2017 8:58 PM PST
    • 144 posts
    January 3, 2017 9:17 PM PST

    CanadinaXegony said:

    And it WAS mentioned in the last live stream about mobs fleeing if their attacker was too powerful.   Pretty sure that might be a thing..already planned. :)

    Mobs fleeing? I love it!

    Pretty sure that idea kicks the oldschool plat/item farmers right where they live tho.

    Queue the violins!

    • 780 posts
    January 3, 2017 9:28 PM PST

    Portalgun said:

    I think people are only voicing concerns from the past here, and I agree that Pantheon is something that is to be totally new. I don't think anyone is trying to get anything nerfed into the ground with their posts and suggestions, I think they are literally just saying "I personally did not like this aspect" and wanted the VR team to know it. Also, I don't think VR have as of yet fully decided how to handle things re: OP's topic, though I think I remember them saying there are some ideas they would like to implement that could prove to be effective, but might not be what some players want

    Grats on your Jboots btw!  I once got mine on P99 in 3 spawns, after 4 people defaulted and I got bumped up the 4 waiting positions... and the boots were for my main. I was pretty pleased lol, what looked liked it was going to be an all day wait after not being able to get my spot the previous day after a 4 hour wait, turned into about a 40 minute wait from arrival to AC ring. I headed to Hasten, he was up, did the hand in solo with a spam macro and bam, 'dem boots! For a wizard, it was a big deal. Quad kiting baby... and I would like to point out the next 2 or 3  attempts on alts to get rings... not so lucky at all. Looong waits, looong camps.

    I also remember talking to people who had sat for over 11 hours and not seen a ring, but I think that was pretty rare.

    I did give some more thought to the topic of this thread though, and the only potential solution that I can think of is this, and I'm curious to see what others think. It is one of the only ways I can see of leaving as much of the old system intact and not disrupting it while still giving those that need it a chance at their content/quest and magic items. If this wouldn't work, all good, nothing ventured, nothing gained.

    So, here goes: Jboots, Locket of Escape, FBSS, whatever you want to camp, it is there, and you get to camp however you see fit at whatever level you like on whatever character you like providing you can hold the camp of course. The camp is yours until you wish to give it up providing you are not afk for spawns, or die and cannot be back in time for next spawn or something. Now, for the players that are unable to invest large amounts of time into the open world camps? Here is what might work for them, and leave matters seperate from the open world camps. Yes, it involves the word "instance" but read fully through and hear me out, this idea might not be as bad as you are thinking at this point in time

    Scenario: We have players A, B C and D, and their more experienced friends players E and F. Players A through D work, have relationships, are busy a lot but love the game and are wiling to give it their best, but also just want to experience content and enjoy items in a level appropriate manner same as everyone else, but where most people have say... hundreds of hours on their account, these 4 and other players like them can only play so often and just leveling is eating up enough time as it is. Players A through D would like an FBSS each but have not been able to get the camp. Our buddies E and F have their stuff, they are just here to help.

    Possible solution? if a player, or group of players etc is under a VR team pre-determined, specified number of hours played on their account per week or month or whatever, maybe they could be entitled to "X" number of tokens, or a token per week if under the requirement, and those tokens would allow them to bring up an instance that would be the a copy of the mobs area in the open world, with the same level of difficulty and challenge getting to the mobs in the game to camp them, but only the 6 player group can go in. The item drop? Same percentage drop rate as in game, only difference being this would be instanced, so effectively the player would indeed instantly get their camp, but not instantly get their drop. They have to camp it just like everyone else.

    Each player wanting to get a chance at the drop would have to have handed in a token. End result Scenario? Player A through D were camping for FBSS as they were all rogues and warriors blah blah, and Player A got theirs in an hour, but nothing else dropped that session and they all had to log, so the 6 players get together again the following day, and any of the remaining 3 players who had not got their drop and handed in their token can bring up the instance again as many time as needed until they get their drop, any time they like, and those players are now again able to roll for the loot if it drops and bring others along for help as needed.

    This is the only idea I can think of that does not really impact the open world in any real way for camping, and still allows for people that are unable to experience content and/or get that item they really want or really need for quests without having to compete with the people that can invest a far larger amount of time into the game, and help keep players on par with each other without spoonfeeding or catering too much to players with limited time. This would only be offered for those "on fire" camps of course, like AC ring, FBSS, things with high resale value and high camping desirability, not for every quest item or fairly desirable item in the game. This way, there can be no nerf whatsoever to the open world and still give limited time players a chance at a somewhat even break considering they pay the same amount of money to play. Farmers get to farm, and players get to play. No one feels put out, or held back. Everyone happy. At least I think everyone might be happy?

    Players and forums peoples... thoughts? Pros, cons, concerns?

    VR team: Could this be a thing? Does this at all seem like something that can be implemented and could work?

    Again, if not workable, no big deal, and thanks for reading the wall of text

     

     

    Seems a little off topic, but I'll just assume that players A, B, C, and D are level 45ish and they can't group at frenzied because there is a level 60 necro there.  I did read the entire post, and I don't care for the idea very much.  This would add many, many copies of the item to the game, and the item would be less memorable, and less special.  Further, there were ways to obtain a Flowing Black Silk Sash without actually camping it.  On Veeshan, two Short Swords of the Ykesha were roughly worth a FBSS, so you could camp lord instead...or you could camp Shining Metallic Robes...Thick Banded Belt...or any of many camps in Lower Guk where valuable loot dropped.  Or you could fight in Nagafen's Lair or Mistmoore and sell the items you looted there.  The beauty of items not being 'bind on pickup' or 'bind on equip' is that they were basically currency.  You didn't see a ton of need-before-greed groups back then (at least not on my server) because if you couldn't wear it, you could still sell it to buy what you needed.  Also, the casual player could log in and spend an hour a day farming HQ Bear Skins, making ten-slot backpacks, and selling them...and have enough to buy a FBSS within a couple weeks or so.  Hell, you could start off with a Polished Granite Tomahawk and a few items from Unrest and trade your way up if you were patient enough.   I'm sure there are many more methods to obtain a FBSS than I can imagine.  This must be jibberish to those who didn't play EverQuest early on, so I apologize to those members.

     

    I'm also not a fan of the stereotype that those who spend more time in the game do not have lives.  There are plenty of players who have families and great jobs who spend a lot of time in these games.  If I play ice hockey three nights a week, should I expect to have my in-game progress match that of a person who decides to use his/her free time to play every night?  I wouldn't think so.

     

    EDIT:  Changed three words for clarity/awkwardness.


    This post was edited by Shucklighter at January 3, 2017 9:34 PM PST
    • 144 posts
    January 3, 2017 10:07 PM PST

    Might surprise you guys to find that I am not a huge fan of my idea either, and I personally would not implement it unless there was little or no other recourse, but I am also never opposed to throwing an idea out there. Ideas on forums spark other ideas and filter their way to the dev team and generally good things will come of it imo (well, maybe not so much on MMO forums, all too often stuff gets twisted and taken out of context for whatever reason...)

    I also think some of the spirit/intent of my post got lost somehow in translation, but its all good. VR has the fleeing mobs mechanic now as well as some other ideas

    See you all on another post

     

     

     

     

     

     

    • 5 posts
    January 3, 2017 10:21 PM PST

    Cirric said:

    I thought this question came up on the last live stream. I thought Brads answer to this problem was to have multiple ways to get the same item (multiple mobs in different zones drop the same item or it can be crafted). I may have been hearing things so let me see if I can find it in the stream.

    I wasn't hearing things :)

    https://youtu.be/gK3HJTSZG6c?t=38m57s

    Also
    they mentioned early in the stream how they want crafters to be able to make pretty much any item that drops.

    • 1434 posts
    January 3, 2017 10:40 PM PST

    CanadinaXegony said:

    And it WAS mentioned in the last live stream about mobs fleeing if their attacker was too powerful.   Pretty sure that might be a thing..already planned. :)

    I think that was more specifically in regard to raids, where people attempt to zerg down a raid mob. I have a feeling there will be no way to stop that.

    I'm suggesting it just be made harder to deal with than it would be if the content were level appropriate. Instead of a mob waiting until it's weak, it just bolts and looks for help as soon as you aggro.

    Cirric said:

    Cirric said:

    I thought this question came up on the last live stream. I thought Brads answer to this problem was to have multiple ways to get the same item (multiple mobs in different zones drop the same item or it can be crafted). I may have been hearing things so let me see if I can find it in the stream.

    I wasn't hearing things :)

    https://youtu.be/gK3HJTSZG6c?t=38m57s

    Also
    they mentioned early in the stream how they want crafters to be able to make pretty much any item that drops.

    Yes, one of the solutions was to make sure there was enough content, but to also make sure there wasn't too many people seeking a single item. Then there's crafting, but chances are the necessary materials will be rare, dropped and probably just as hard or harder to acquire and combine, than it would be to get the dropped version.

    • 1618 posts
    January 4, 2017 4:15 AM PST

    CanadinaXegony said:

    Beefcake said:

    So, only play a couple hours a week, get all the loot you want.

    Or, the solution you are ignoring: Leave the system alone.

    Keep loot meaningful though scarcity and hard-work. There are more than enough casual games for casual players. Enough of this instant gratification entitlement.

    This game is not a welfare system. We don't need VR handing out "coupons" for loot for those too "pre-occupied" to work for it. This is essentially handing out cheat codes. Level too hard, use a cheat code.

    As for your statement that "This would only be offered for those "on fire" camps of course, like AC ring, FBSS, things with high resale value and high camping desirability, not for every quest item or fairly desirable item in the game."

    How could you possibly believe this would not affect the game through the economy? People would simply sell their free/entitled loot. Better yet, create 5 or 6 extra accounts, barely play them, cash in the tokens, sell for plat.

     

    Hmm hard work...pushing a few buttons and chasing pixels on a screen?  :)  Dems just pixels...Elmer :D   I don't see how this game will be a welfare system.   Instant gratification happens in games like Wow that won't be happening here.    And the few shouldn't get to hold sway over the many.     What happened to doing content at the level appropriate level?    Do you think you'll be able to rush through this game and be level 50 in a couple days...don't think so, so why leave out the low level areas where you can gain the faction needed with your home city,  do the lowbie armor quests, perception quests...get it done and finished.   Take time to smell the roses.    Its not about the destination in this game, its about the journey.  Least that's what I have been reading. :)

    Well, Elmer, have fun clicking a few buttons while chasing your pixels. Enjoy your mobile phone games. Some of us actually put in a serious amount of effort and try to challenge ourselves by working as a team to think through and overcome the content. 

    It's funny that you claim all the negativity in other games will happen here, but instant gratification will not. Some of us are arguing to do our best to prevent both from happening here.

    Read the forum's again, it's not just a few people here that are against welfare and instant gratification. It's the few that are fighting for them.

    Don't know where you got anything from this argument about rushing to get through content. Clearly, you are trying to distract from the argument by adding baseless accusations.  The argument is about when you are higher level, should you be denied content in an open world game. Not about rushing through and then getting blocked. This argument is about the future of the game, not a few days after release.

    • 160 posts
    January 4, 2017 4:32 AM PST

    I've seen a lot of fights over loot in my days.

    But usually we waited for it to drop first.  The game is a year away at least LOL.

    I think I have heard some of the most disturbing comments ever.

    Like a player who plays a few hours per week should have the same or equivalent gear as a hardcore raider.  Right.

    Here's the thing.  If you guys get your way somehow, and everybody gets that piece of phat lewt, it will become nothing but a participation trophy, and you'll just find yourself hating on some other item that good players have found a way to farm.

    Did you ever stop to think why you lust after it so hard?

    Because it's hard to get, that's why.

    Stop trying to make VR create yet another Care Bear Extraordinaire game.

    I tried WoW for 3 months, and couldn't stand it for this exact thing.


    This post was edited by corpserunner at January 4, 2017 4:34 AM PST
    • 610 posts
    January 4, 2017 4:58 AM PST

    leafnin said:

    Grey mobs shouldn't drop loot period.  I honestly think this activity goes against several tenets published by the team.  There is no risk for the reward with the high level selling it to get money for better gear or for the alt getting the upgrade.  It's against the spirit of community as your soloing group content preventing others from enjoying the game for personal needs.  The comments about 'entitlement' and 'locking content' are just excuses to defend their entitlement to lock content for their own gain nothing more. Loot is a symbol of power the higher level gear should look and be better otherwise what's the point of doing that content?  

     

     

     

     

    Just say NO to Trivial Loot Codes

    • 1618 posts
    January 4, 2017 5:35 AM PST

    The game is supposed be to a challenge. That's why we want to play it instead of other easy MMOs.

    A simple and fitting analogy. 

    A marathon is a challenge.  Runners work years to get their body in shape, spending hours everyday for a chance to prove themselves and EARN the prize.

    But, there is a guy that also wants that prize. He has work, family, and other obligations. He enjoys other activities that take up his time. So, he cannot spend the time to get in shape and prepare. But, he can spend a few hours a week at the gym.

    Now, we all feel bad for him. So, we tell him he can still get the prize. He just has to run the first mile and the last mile to get his prize. 

    That is how this entitlement attitude works.

    Please keep this away from Pantheon. 

    • 318 posts
    January 4, 2017 5:38 AM PST

    Sevens said:

    leafnin said:

    Grey mobs shouldn't drop loot period.  I honestly think this activity goes against several tenets published by the team.  There is no risk for the reward with the high level selling it to get money for better gear or for the alt getting the upgrade.  It's against the spirit of community as your soloing group content preventing others from enjoying the game for personal needs.  The comments about 'entitlement' and 'locking content' are just excuses to defend their entitlement to lock content for their own gain nothing more. Loot is a symbol of power the higher level gear should look and be better otherwise what's the point of doing that content?  

    Just say NO to Trivial Loot Codes

    Agreed. TLC will make the problem it is supposedly "solving", way worse.

    If you can no longer loot a valuable item after a certain level, then it will become even more contested by players, not less...

    • 610 posts
    January 4, 2017 5:40 AM PST

    Beefcake said:

    The game is supposed be to a challenge. That's why we want to play it instead of other easy MMOs.

    A simple and fitting analogy. 

    A marathon is a challenge.  Runners work years to get their body in shape, spending hours everyday for a chance to prove themselves and EARN the prize.

    But, there is a guy that also wants that prize. He has work, family, and other obligations. He enjoys other activities that take up his time. So, he cannot spend the time to get in shape and prepare. But, he can spend a few hours a week at the gym.

    Now, we all feel bad for him. So, we tell him he can still get the prize. He just has to run the first mile and the last mile to get his prize. 

    That is how this entitlement attitude works.

    Please keep this away from Pantheon. 

    We've had a few generation now of kids who got "participation" trophies just for showing up, why would you be surprised there are people arguing for it in PROTF? its their due to get what they want, when they want it!!

    • 137 posts
    January 4, 2017 5:57 AM PST

    The bigger point I think some of you are missing is that without trivial loot codes in place, you at least then have another opportunity to aquire loot via haggling with other players, if you happen to be a casual player that may not other wise be able to aquire said loot by what would be considered the "normal" path. By allowing players to farm gear to some extent allows players to earn gold/plat by selling whatever loot they have farmed and then in turn purchase items they may not of been able to aquire on their own, via the player market. This system works both ways, you are the lower level person and could not get said item (maybe it just did not drop for you, your group couldent handle the content, etc, etc), go farm something to sell and use the cash to buy what you want.

    Additionally, one of the key points that has kept EQ1 alive as long as it has, with relative nigh numbers for years, was the replayability it had through alts. A big motivator to keep playing was the ability to twink out your alts, long time players are going to want to be able to go farm that Fungi Tunic or FBSS for their soon to be kick ass Monk alt. This replayability adds to the bottom line of this game and ensures future content for all.

    Also, much of what creates a player market is the ability of players to farm items to some extent, without it the market would be very bare. I do think you can place safegaurds to prevent the uber Necro from farming 10 Fungi Tunics in a month, but to not allow it to happen at all has a larger trickle down effect. 

    No loot for gray mobs......horrible idea. Nothing like finding yourself at level say 50 realizing the benefits of leather working or whatever, setting out to learn the skill and realizing that you are now being held hostage by players that know you cannot loot the items you need and are going to screw you for the cost. Or worse, its 2 years into the game, the items you need are at the 10-20 level range, noone is playing that level range and you have no option to loot or buy the item.

    Portalgun said:

    Keep loot meaningful though scarcity and hard-work. There are more than enough casual games for casual players. Enough of this instant gratification entitlement.

    - So screw everyone that is not the same playstyle as you and cannot play as often as you? is this this what you are saying? Effectively, #@$% off casuals, Pantheon has no place for you? That's harsh man. Also, there is no instant gratification, again, did you fully read, or consider offering any constructive imput? I also think you are confusing "hard work" with "#$@%loads of free time"

    I quoted the above, because I am the casual player anymore and I dont have endless hours to play. When I played EQ1 I was very hardcore, but life changes and I no longer can do that. The point is, that I may be casual, but it does not mean I want a casual game. I want a hard game that I have to work at, even if it means I progress at a slower pace, I will still make progress. So if I can't put in the time to farm item "X" that I really want, I will find item "Y" that is easier for me to farm and sell it to buy "X". For me at least, the biggest motivator to play EQ1 for 8 years was the rarity of items that I really wanted.


    This post was edited by Riply at January 4, 2017 6:04 AM PST
    • 1618 posts
    January 4, 2017 8:19 AM PST

    Well said, Riply, especially that last part.


    This post was edited by Beefcake at January 4, 2017 8:20 AM PST
    • 2130 posts
    January 4, 2017 9:21 AM PST

    Am I literally the only person on this forum to find it extremely belittling to see posts about certain generations and "kids these days"? This has to be the oldest trope in existence. Every generation says it about the next. It's not new, it's not funny, it's not interesting. It's a lazy way to maintain the status quo without positing actual arguments against change.

     

    • 97 posts
    January 4, 2017 9:38 AM PST

    I'm of the mindset that most raid-loot and all epic weapons should be NODROP and group items should be tradable. No trivial loot code at all. If FBSS is camped, then find another open camp, or hill giants, or hell, just collect tons of fine steel until you can afford the FBSS in EC. There should always be something for you to do in game that allows you to generate money (or items that you can sell for money) which you can then spend on whatever item you'd like. As a paladin, I grouped for some of my Deepwater gear, other parts I bought. Maybe I got lucky on a roll for cobalt gauntlets because there was no warrior in the group, and I sold/traded those for something I could use... I don't know that's just my 2cp

    • 3016 posts
    January 4, 2017 9:40 AM PST

    Portalgun said:

    Might surprise you guys to find that I am not a huge fan of my idea either, and I personally would not implement it unless there was little or no other recourse, but I am also never opposed to throwing an idea out there. Ideas on forums spark other ideas and filter their way to the dev team and generally good things will come of it imo (well, maybe not so much on MMO forums, all too often stuff gets twisted and taken out of context for whatever reason...)

    I also think some of the spirit/intent of my post got lost somehow in translation, but its all good. VR has the fleeing mobs mechanic now as well as some other ideas

    See you all on another post

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    Aha! Playing devil's advocate hehehe

     


    This post was edited by CanadinaXegony at January 4, 2017 9:41 AM PST
    • 3016 posts
    January 4, 2017 9:41 AM PST

    Liav said:

    Am I literally the only person on this forum to find it extremely belittling to see posts about certain generations and "kids these days"? This has to be the oldest trope in existence. Every generation says it about the next. It's not new, it's not funny, it's not interesting. It's a lazy way to maintain the status quo without positing actual arguments against change.

     

     

    Can't we just stay on topic?  :P  *wink*

    • 3016 posts
    January 4, 2017 9:43 AM PST

    Quintra said:

    I'm of the mindset that most raid-loot and all epic weapons should be NODROP and group items should be tradable. No trivial loot code at all. If FBSS is camped, then find another open camp, or hill giants, or hell, just collect tons of fine steel until you can afford the FBSS in EC. There should always be something for you to do in game that allows you to generate money (or items that you can sell for money) which you can then spend on whatever item you'd like. As a paladin, I grouped for some of my Deepwater gear, other parts I bought. Maybe I got lucky on a roll for cobalt gauntlets because there was no warrior in the group, and I sold/traded those for something I could use... I don't know that's just my 2cp

     

    Pretty sure most here don't want a lot of nodrop or bind on pickup etc.   But we'll see what the Devs do about it.   Maybe on epic weapons it would make sense, however.

    • 411 posts
    January 4, 2017 9:43 AM PST

    Liav said:

    Am I literally the only person on this forum to find it extremely belittling to see posts about certain generations and "kids these days"? This has to be the oldest trope in existence. Every generation says it about the next. It's not new, it's not funny, it's not interesting. It's a lazy way to maintain the status quo without positing actual arguments against change.

     

    Liav, I am also extremely disheartened by posts of this type. Not only is it exceptionally belittling, but it's also a completely hollow argument.

    Those whiny entitled milennials want to be the only ones who can farm low level stuff! ...OR... Those whiny old grumps want to be able to farm trivial content for loot!

    It's BOTH SIDES wanting to do something at a time and place of their choosing. Bringing up entitlement never adds anything to the discussion, it just serves to push away one side of the discussion so that the remaining side can bask in comments from similarly minded individuals.

    All too often in this forum threads are created to address possible solutions to a perceived issue only to be met by "this is not an issue, so you should stop talking about solutions to a non issue". While it is entirely valid and helpful to provide a viewpoint that something is a non-issue, trying to prevent discussion of a solution to the non-issue is just plain rude. If we were to have developed an elegant solution to the issue of over-leveled farmers, but the devs decided it was a non-issue, who would be hurt by that?

    Please, any time you think about calling people entitled, ask yourself if you're adding anything to the conversation or just making people feel unwelcome and inhibiting discussion (useful or not).

    • 3016 posts
    January 4, 2017 9:54 AM PST

    Riply said:

    The bigger point I think some of you are missing is that without trivial loot codes in place, you at least then have another opportunity to aquire loot via haggling with other players, if you happen to be a casual player that may not other wise be able to aquire said loot by what would be considered the "normal" path. By allowing players to farm gear to some extent allows players to earn gold/plat by selling whatever loot they have farmed and then in turn purchase items they may not of been able to aquire on their own, via the player market. This system works both ways, you are the lower level person and could not get said item (maybe it just did not drop for you, your group couldent handle the content, etc, etc), go farm something to sell and use the cash to buy what you want.

    Additionally, one of the key points that has kept EQ1 alive as long as it has, with relative nigh numbers for years, was the replayability it had through alts. A big motivator to keep playing was the ability to twink out your alts, long time players are going to want to be able to go farm that Fungi Tunic or FBSS for their soon to be kick ass Monk alt. This replayability adds to the bottom line of this game and ensures future content for all.

    Also, much of what creates a player market is the ability of players to farm items to some extent, without it the market would be very bare. I do think you can place safegaurds to prevent the uber Necro from farming 10 Fungi Tunics in a month, but to not allow it to happen at all has a larger trickle down effect. 

    No loot for gray mobs......horrible idea. Nothing like finding yourself at level say 50 realizing the benefits of leather working or whatever, setting out to learn the skill and realizing that you are now being held hostage by players that know you cannot loot the items you need and are going to screw you for the cost. Or worse, its 2 years into the game, the items you need are at the 10-20 level range, noone is playing that level range and you have no option to loot or buy the item.

    Portalgun said:

    Keep loot meaningful though scarcity and hard-work. There are more than enough casual games for casual players. Enough of this instant gratification entitlement.

    - So screw everyone that is not the same playstyle as you and cannot play as often as you? is this this what you are saying? Effectively, #@$% off casuals, Pantheon has no place for you? That's harsh man. Also, there is no instant gratification, again, did you fully read, or consider offering any constructive imput? I also think you are confusing "hard work" with "#$@%loads of free time"

    I quoted the above, because I am the casual player anymore and I dont have endless hours to play. When I played EQ1 I was very hardcore, but life changes and I no longer can do that. The point is, that I may be casual, but it does not mean I want a casual game. I want a hard game that I have to work at, even if it means I progress at a slower pace, I will still make progress. So if I can't put in the time to farm item "X" that I really want, I will find item "Y" that is easier for me to farm and sell it to buy "X". For me at least, the biggest motivator to play EQ1 for 8 years was the rarity of items that I really wanted.

     

    A lot of us can't dedicate the time we used to..like back in 1999,  just the way things work,  doesn't diminish our game knowledge or capabilities.   Doesn't mean that those who can spend 24/7 camped somewhere are more skilled or knowledgeable than the rest of us either.       I want a challenging game with a learning curve.     What I don't want when it comes to epic quests (mentioned before) is that other players can dictate to me what and what I can't do.    This happened on Xegony...epic quest spawns sat on by one particular "uber" guild for up to a year.    I spent that year trying to find a way to get an invite...got the invite for Venril Sathir..and one of their members ninjaed the drop I needed.      So again,  I will be paying my subscription and if others can finish their epic weapon quest..so should I.   I helped on every epic spawn I could,  for clerics, and every other class.   I think trying for a whole year...should count for effort.   I don't think anyone should be entitled to block you because they can.   That doesn't mean they are better than anyone else...they had the guild that could sit on these spawns day in and day out......nobody should have to go begging hat in hand only to get disappointed anyways.    Put yourself in those shoes and walk in them for a bit.        And before someone comes out with the word whine....eat it :P

    • 3016 posts
    January 4, 2017 10:06 AM PST

    Beefcake said:

    The game is supposed be to a challenge. That's why we want to play it instead of other easy MMOs.

    A simple and fitting analogy. 

    A marathon is a challenge.  Runners work years to get their body in shape, spending hours everyday for a chance to prove themselves and EARN the prize.

    But, there is a guy that also wants that prize. He has work, family, and other obligations. He enjoys other activities that take up his time. So, he cannot spend the time to get in shape and prepare. But, he can spend a few hours a week at the gym.

    Now, we all feel bad for him. So, we tell him he can still get the prize. He just has to run the first mile and the last mile to get his prize. 

    That is how this entitlement attitude works.

    Please keep this away from Pantheon. 

     

    So you want to block out the person that has work, family, other obligations..that might be a grand total of most of us Beefcake.    Entitlement...works BOTH ways.   That means some here need to take a look in the mirror.      Entitlement to sit on the spawns 24/7 don't share those spawns, don't work with others that are of the appropriate level.   Well!! They're entitled therefore they can wait 2 weeks til I decide to move my behind somewhere else?   Really?   Is it all about you..or do you actually belong to the community?    Let's act like we are friendly instead.   Sounds good to me. :P  Doesn't hurt to invite people to group who need to get that particular spawn to move on out of the area. 

    • 144 posts
    January 4, 2017 10:10 AM PST

    CanadinaXegony said:

    Portalgun said:

    Might surprise you guys to find that I am not a huge fan of my idea either, and I personally would not implement it unless there was little or no other recourse, but I am also never opposed to throwing an idea out there. Ideas on forums spark other ideas and filter their way to the dev team and generally good things will come of it imo (well, maybe not so much on MMO forums, all too often stuff gets twisted and taken out of context for whatever reason...)

    I also think some of the spirit/intent of my post got lost somehow in translation, but its all good. VR has the fleeing mobs mechanic now as well as some other ideas

    See you all on another post

     

     

     

     

     

     

     Aha! Playing devil's advocate hehehe

    In a way it could be seen as that perhaps, but mostly what I am/was trying to do is invite constructive ideas and spark new ideas to help the dev team in their endeavors to make this game the best it can be for everyone, not just for casual or for non-casuals. Sadly, not a lot of constructive feedback happened, got a lot of knee-jerk paranoid reactions though and learned a lot about the true nature of some of the ppl here. However it looked like things were not going to go positively if continued, so no point in continuing imo

     

    • 3016 posts
    January 4, 2017 10:24 AM PST

    Beefcake said:

    CanadinaXegony said:

    Beefcake said:

    So, only play a couple hours a week, get all the loot you want.

    Or, the solution you are ignoring: Leave the system alone.

    Keep loot meaningful though scarcity and hard-work. There are more than enough casual games for casual players. Enough of this instant gratification entitlement.

    This game is not a welfare system. We don't need VR handing out "coupons" for loot for those too "pre-occupied" to work for it. This is essentially handing out cheat codes. Level too hard, use a cheat code.

    As for your statement that "This would only be offered for those "on fire" camps of course, like AC ring, FBSS, things with high resale value and high camping desirability, not for every quest item or fairly desirable item in the game."

    How could you possibly believe this would not affect the game through the economy? People would simply sell their free/entitled loot. Better yet, create 5 or 6 extra accounts, barely play them, cash in the tokens, sell for plat.

     

    Hmm hard work...pushing a few buttons and chasing pixels on a screen?  :)  Dems just pixels...Elmer :D   I don't see how this game will be a welfare system.   Instant gratification happens in games like Wow that won't be happening here.    And the few shouldn't get to hold sway over the many.     What happened to doing content at the level appropriate level?    Do you think you'll be able to rush through this game and be level 50 in a couple days...don't think so, so why leave out the low level areas where you can gain the faction needed with your home city,  do the lowbie armor quests, perception quests...get it done and finished.   Take time to smell the roses.    Its not about the destination in this game, its about the journey.  Least that's what I have been reading. :)

    Well, Elmer, have fun clicking a few buttons while chasing your pixels. Enjoy your mobile phone games. Some of us actually put in a serious amount of effort and try to challenge ourselves by working as a team to think through and overcome the content. 

    It's funny that you claim all the negativity in other games will happen here, but instant gratification will not. Some of us are arguing to do our best to prevent both from happening here.

    Read the forum's again, it's not just a few people here that are against welfare and instant gratification. It's the few that are fighting for them.

    Don't know where you got anything from this argument about rushing to get through content. Clearly, you are trying to distract from the argument by adding baseless accusations.  The argument is about when you are higher level, should you be denied content in an open world game. Not about rushing through and then getting blocked. This argument is about the future of the game, not a few days after release.

     

    Beefcake the one thing that you need to come to terms with is..assuming things about other people.   Just to clarify I don't own a mobile phone...I am talking to you from my desktop ...lol the other thing you need to know..is I'm a gamer who likes challenges.   Most of the games I have played since the mid 1990s were pvp.    Not Hello Kitty. :P    And I am concerned about the future of this game or I wouldn't have put down my 1K cold cash.

    • 1778 posts
    January 4, 2017 10:40 AM PST
    Unfortunately people can let their opinions get the better of them and start preaching things from the standpoint that it's fact or meant to be. When the fact is this is a new game and doesn't have to fit anything except what the devs decide to use. And this goes for both sides of the argument.

    But yea negative comments and accusations won't help either side. I think also some people take certain ideas too personally. They think of it as an attack or that someone is trying to ruin their game. I think another thing to keep in mind is the different game cultures that influence these forums. Not everyone feels the same way. And some have different ideas of what is hardcore and what is casual. Or maybe what they consider legitimate challenge vs obligatory hassles that bring nothing to the table in their mind. Immersion vs gameplay. Etc etc. Which just means different folks have different ideas of what is ideal and oldschool.

    I know sometimes people want to stick to their guns on issues but I would like to see a bit more meeting in the middle then what I have seen. Not everything will instantly change this into WoW and not allet things EQ equal "this game will fail". And I also know some people worry about slippery slopes. This doesn't have to be the way of it and there in no proof of it. And again aside from the tenets. To my knowledge the game does not have to be any certain way. It's not EQ. It's not FFXI. It's not WoW. Pantheon will be it's own game and all ideas that fit in the tenets and are part of VRs vision should be looked into. And when I say tenets some are pretty solid but others are more open to interpretation. If the devs say no instances then that is a valid argument. If the devs say we are making a social game that does not mean you can't have auction houses. That is just one interpretation.