Forums » Off-Topic and Casual Chatter

Forums Changing Your Position?

    • 1618 posts
    December 26, 2016 6:32 PM PST

    MMO gamers are some of the most stubborn an opinionated of all. 

    Tonight, I have been reading the discussions from back in 2015 on this forum. I see a lot of the same opinions from the same people, myself included.

    So, has anyone here changed their opinions after discussing them on the forums here? Or are we all just arguing for the sake of arguing?

    • 780 posts
    December 26, 2016 8:01 PM PST

    I think a lot of people just need to experience things for themselves, like Aradune said.  Hopefully we'll have a game that everyone here will enjoy, despite how often we express desires that directly oppose those expressed by others.

    • 2130 posts
    December 27, 2016 3:27 AM PST

    Opinions don't change easily, ever. It's very easy for people to insulate themselves from things that contradict opinions they already hold.

    I changed my opinion once, I think. I used to think that Pantheon should have encounter locking for all content. I conceded that maybe it should only be reserved for raid content.

    At the end of the day, I argue here because I think I'm correct and I want the views I hold to influence the developers in the direction I want the game to go. I'm aware of how naive that is, but it's still fun for me to talk about game mechanics and **** here.

    • 1434 posts
    December 27, 2016 5:19 AM PST

    I'd say discussions here have expanded my perspective and given me a better understanding of MMORPGs in general. Though I've always believed that, despite EQ being the greatest MMO of all time by a wide margin, there have always been things that could be fixed or improved. Participating here has given me pause to think critically on what exactly it was that made first gen MMOs different and more enjoyable for me, and how that design can be improved for Pantheon.

    A lot of people seem to believe EQ was successful because of dumb luck and because it was one of only a few MMORPGs. I mostly argue against radical changes because those suggesting them do not demonstrate a basic appreciation or understanding of why they existed in the first place. Besides being incredibly excited for Pantheon, I'm here to help inform people as to how MMOs have changed for the worse and how I believe we can change that by adhering to things that worked from EQ.

    • 1468 posts
    December 27, 2016 4:49 PM PST

    I don't think I've really changed my mind on all that much to be honest. Originally I wanted a game that was like EverQuest merged in with Vanguard and I still want that. I'd like really complex raid encounters that take weeks if not months to work out how to beat them and I want complex group encounters as well that challenge groups with complex single group content. Since I originally pledged to Pantheon I have also pledged to another MMO that is also in development and they are two completely different games but by doing so I have realised just how traditional Pantheon is going to be in comparison with some of the other MMOs in development. I'm not sure if that is entirely a good thing.

    I'm really waiting for more information on crafting as that is my one big area that I am really excited about. Either way I'm still really excited about Pantheon and really want it to succeed. Time will tell how it'll turn out in the end.

    • 578 posts
    December 27, 2016 7:15 PM PST

    These forums are great because we can get 2nd and 3rd perspectives on issues. If you are stubborn and closed-minded then yeah you won't gain a ton from these forums but if you are open-minded then there is plenty of sound advice for your consumption.

    I've at least completely changed my opinion once through discussing things here and other times I have kept the same opinion about a specific topic but changed my stance on it. (might be the same thing but I feel it's different)

    • 1281 posts
    January 2, 2017 1:47 AM PST

    Agree to disagree is not really a good answer. You should always find commonground if you want to effectively create positive change.

    • 2130 posts
    January 2, 2017 4:31 AM PST

    bigdogchris said:

    Agree to disagree is not really a good answer. You should always find commonground if you want to effectively create positive change.

    Agree to disagree. Sometimes on a given topic common ground simply can't be found.

    • 264 posts
    January 2, 2017 8:01 AM PST

    Beefcake said:

    MMO gamers are some of the most stubborn an opinionated of all. 

    Tonight, I have been reading the discussions from back in 2015 on this forum. I see a lot of the same opinions from the same people, myself included.

    So, has anyone here changed their opinions after discussing them on the forums here? Or are we all just arguing for the sake of arguing?

    While I try not to look at everything as black or white, as it relates to this venue I firmly held the belief that the original form of EQ was the pinnacle of MMO design (except for the graphics) and it should be emulated as close as possible. After reading many good and well reasoned posts I have a slightly different opinion and I think there is room for change without destroying the core feel I wish for Pantheon.

    Argument can flesh out some good ideas or may be the inspiration of a totally new idea; so I think there is value in arguing and considering the views presented. Arguing can also be toxic if somebody feels slighted, and typing/texting is the fastest way to do it as you cannot hear the way it is being spoken to you. 

    Opinion can change with time and experience. Interesting story, I parked in front of a small SUV in the supermarket parking lot the other day. I was wondering how was it this new vehicle had a Pontiac badge on the front as Pontiac has been out of business for years. I walked around it and it was a 2001 Pontiac Aztek. I remember that I used to think it was the foulest looking vehicle any commitee had ever crapped out of Detroit. Here it was sitting and in perfect condition. It looked utterly modern at 15 years old. I guess sometimes old can be new again so I am still looking for an EQ replacement in Pantheon :)

    • 1778 posts
    January 2, 2017 9:16 AM PST

    I dont know about changing my opinion. But there are some things Ive taken a more relaxed position on so I can meet in the middle. Though often times it doesnt matter cause the other side wont even meet halfway. But Im at least trying to be mindful of the RPers, Immersionist, and Social Butterflies. I dont want to take such a hard line approach that I destroy these things for others. So if there are good middle ground solutions, then great. The biggest problem I have is if an issue boils down to community policing, because Im very skeptical of it. Willing to try it, but still very doubtful that it would work today. I hope to be proven wrong.

    • 1618 posts
    January 2, 2017 12:06 PM PST

    I have been occasionally set in my ways on some things, then someone points out seriously flaws or hypocrisy in my statements. However, being proud, I will often just shut up after that point instead of admitting I was wrong.

    Then again, if you never speak, people will think you are stupid. But, if you open your mouth, people will KNOW you are stupid.

    • 3016 posts
    January 2, 2017 2:41 PM PST

    Beefcake said:

    MMO gamers are some of the most stubborn an opinionated of all. 

    Tonight, I have been reading the discussions from back in 2015 on this forum. I see a lot of the same opinions from the same people, myself included.

    So, has anyone here changed their opinions after discussing them on the forums here? Or are we all just arguing for the sake of arguing?

     

    I like to read what everyone says,  still form my own opinions,  based on gaming experience, and sometimes I give the "other side" a good think or two.   We aren't clones so opinions are as varied as the people that post here. :)  I think that's  good and healthy..for our community.  :)


    This post was edited by CanadinaXegony at January 2, 2017 2:44 PM PST
    • 160 posts
    January 16, 2017 1:27 AM PST

    Liav, I think in today's conformist-dominated, consensus-worshipping soceity, arguing is too frowned upon.  I like hashing things out, even when we don't win another over to our side.  I think it helps me redefine my own opinions by having to defend them.

    But I do think (but can't prove) that while we don't change our opinions, the opinions of others who don't post, but just read, are swayed more.  People are always watching the gladiators.

    • 432 posts
    January 17, 2017 6:16 PM PST

    Beefcake said:

    MMO gamers are some of the most stubborn an opinionated of all. 

    Tonight, I have been reading the discussions from back in 2015 on this forum. I see a lot of the same opinions from the same people, myself included.

    So, has anyone here changed their opinions after discussing them on the forums here? Or are we all just arguing for the sake of arguing?

     

    I don't know how many have changed, but I certainly am warming up to the death penalty. I am still heavily leaning towards a death penalty which isn't too 'damning'. I also stated on another topic a new opinion and like... a page earlier I disagree'd with it. Kind of funny how that works. Its the magic of being more worldly. Talk a lot with a lot of diverse people and you will learn a lot and have the opportunity to change.

     

    -Todd

    • 839 posts
    January 18, 2017 1:39 PM PST

    Even if things have not changed our opinions completely, its great that we get to experience the oposing argument and hopefully end up having more acceptance of the middle ground.  Sometimes I am afraid of the slippery slope effect in every situation but then realise that oposing views also dont want the opposite of my thoughts either, they just want a slight move in the other direction.  We tend to argue extremes and then towards the end of the thread find out we actually are happy with a middle ground or a system that allows for choice!

    • 839 posts
    January 31, 2017 10:55 PM PST

    Just had my opinion changed from a thread on having a ward heavy healer type, now i understand how this can affect other healer types badly!

    • 556 posts
    February 1, 2017 8:58 AM PST

    First off, Great question/topic. 

    I've changed my stance a couple of times but some things people want/ask for is just simply too much. I am all for making the game more accessible to the non hardcore where some are not. Some want a carbon copy of EQ with better graphics where I don't believe that would be successfull at all. Most of the time I can agree with Liav and Dullahan but there are times we have different opinions. This game won't be anyones 'exact wish'. It will be a mix of things from everyone. People just have to learn to bend on the things that don't affect them as much. 

    During the kickstarter I was actually against non instancing for raids. Since then I've seen that some people have good ideas to do it without allowing the very top end guilds locking down everything. Then again there are some things I won't bend on like some peoples wish for it to take 800+ hours to lvl cap. That is obsurd. Would be completely demoralizing to spend 10 hours and not even gain 1 level. Then there are ones that affect me in no way at all such as maps. If we have a map with an indicator of where I am, cool. If not, it doesn't matter. I'll know where I am going either way. For some, that indicator will be a big deal (mostly the people who didn't spend years in EQ).