Making this to try and come up with as many possible currency sinks within Pantheon to get currency out of the economy to prevent out of control inflation while not hurting gameplay.
Not sure this has really been talked about. What it is for? Why is it needed? The good and the bad.
It is probably safe to say we have all seen what happens once a game has been released for quite some time. More currency will naturally exist from the game being played. Supply and Demand will take over. Inflation starts to happen. Things spiral out of control.
I think I heard VR talk about this some but not a lot. It is still early and I am sure they are probably already thinking about it.
What can we come up with?
What could they use as an In-Game Currency Sink?
There are a few more I can think of but won't list them yet.
What options do you all see? How much is too much?
Although I hate currency sinks, they are a necessity in a game where money is constantly being generated from mob drops. EQ has tried many different ways to remove currency from the game. Sadly, with each expansion, mobs drop more and more money so that most current plat-sinks in EQ are no longer effective. I'm not sure of a way to create a currency-sink which will effectively curtail digital inflation while not breaking the bank of new players or those that are forever cash-strapped.
Armor repairs are great for this, as you said. Just as long as there isn't permanent item loss as a result.
Fast Travel between players isn't a currency sink because the money doesn't leave the economy, as it does with NPCs. Non-player based Fast Travel conflicts with the tenets of the game.
Gambling is subject to irl gambling laws, so that wouldn't work practically I don't believe.
Everything else sounds good to me. One thing I might add would be cosmetic changes to your characters appearance as you would at character select. Monetizing this process with in-game currency is a valid sink as well.
Liav said:Fast Travel between players isn't a currency sink because the money doesn't leave the economy, as it does with NPCs. Non-player based Fast Travel conflicts with the tenets of the game.
If something is needed for the players to cast a portal, etc it would help. A gem or whatever. Price of gem would be the currency sink. Different portal use different gems
Liav said:Gambling is subject to irl gambling laws, so that wouldn't work practically I don't believe.
I've heard this said repeatedly, but I've never heard anyone quantify it. There are multiple games that have some form of gambling in them now. EQ2 has what is effectively slot machines. If there are gambling laws that impact this, how does EQ2 get around them?
Feyshtey said:Liav said:Gambling is subject to irl gambling laws, so that wouldn't work practically I don't believe.
I've heard this said repeatedly, but I've never heard anyone quantify it. There are multiple games that have some form of gambling in them now. EQ2 has what is effectively slot machines. If there are gambling laws that impact this, how does EQ2 get around them?
I'm not sure. I remember a specific mechanic (goblin games) was removed from EQ2 as a result of gambling laws, however that may have been due to the involvement of digital currency (Station Cash or Daybreak Cash) in the purchase of tickets used to play the game.
I can't qualify it with certainty though, there seem to be ambiguities and it may very well just slip through the cracks and not matter.
Liav said:Feyshtey said:Liav said:Gambling is subject to irl gambling laws, so that wouldn't work practically I don't believe.
I've heard this said repeatedly, but I've never heard anyone quantify it. There are multiple games that have some form of gambling in them now. EQ2 has what is effectively slot machines. If there are gambling laws that impact this, how does EQ2 get around them?
I'm not sure. I remember a specific mechanic (goblin games) was removed from EQ2 as a result of gambling laws, however that may have been due to the involvement of digital currency (Station Cash or Daybreak Cash) in the purchase of tickets used to play the game.
I can't qualify it with certainty though, there seem to be ambiguities and it may very well just slip through the cracks and not matter.
The gigglegibb or whatever is still at most docks. The issue comes when real life money can be converted to items and then sold again for money. Without a cash shop, this is not an issue.
Beefcake said:The gigglegibb or whatever is still at most docks. The issue comes when real life money can be converted to items and then sold again for money. Without a cash shop, this is not an issue.
Yeah, the gambling goblin who only accepts plat is still at the Antonica (and various other) docks. The goblin games were a separate feature where it zoned you into an instance with a puzzle to complete and gave you a reward.
So you're right, I don't think in-game gambling with only in-game currency would be an issue.
Beefcake said:The gigglegibb or whatever is still at most docks. The issue comes when real life money can be converted to items and then sold again for money. Without a cash shop, this is not an issue.
The gigglegibb or whatever he was is a bad idea.
It is just a jackpot you have to keep sitting at and playing instead of playing the game. Also who knows when there will be a winner
I witnessed the same guy win it twice after major customer service complaints on other issues. It seemed like a reward he was given or something. Could of just been coincidence though.
What I am proposing is more of like a lottery or raffle. Everyone buys in during a certain period of time ( a day, a week, a month) and then a winner is chosen. Something to do on the side. you might get lucky. You might not. Doesn't take away from game time. Builds excitement. Gets extra currency out of the game from a lot of people rather than a lot from one person. One person is rewarded this way.
Greattaste said:How about a "you are HERE -->" map station (like at amusement parks) located at the crossroads or in camps of dervishes/renegades/outlaw/circus performers/whatever. For a price, they will show their my map of the local area/zone.
I like this in theory but I don't think it could be implemented well and would serve no purpose.
We already know map is going to be limited in the game. How much modders will, if at all, be able to edit it is still unknown i think.
Even if it is just temporary, once it is online for people to see, no one would buy it.
Or if modders are allowed to edit map in the game, it would be uselss cause of that
Although, if everything will be dynamic enough where it is soo hard to pinpoint on a map but the NPC has the needed info, it could be a thing.
Im just skeptical on this being good after implementation
Backin said:Greattaste said:How about a "you are HERE -->" map station (like at amusement parks) located at the crossroads or in camps of dervishes/renegades/outlaw/circus performers/whatever. For a price, they will show their my map of the local area/zone.
I like this in theory but I don't think it could be implemented well and would serve no purpose.
We already know map is going to be limited in the game. How much modders will, if at all, be able to edit it is still unknown i think.
Even if it is just temporary, once it is online for people to see, no one would buy it.
Or if modders are allowed to edit map in the game, it would be uselss cause of that
Although, if everything will be dynamic enough where it is soo hard to pinpoint on a map but the NPC has the needed info, it could be a thing.
Im just skeptical on this being good after implementation
Yeah I think it's a good idea but not as a gold sink. Rough maps in the game world (like lying on a general's table or something) will be useful from time to time to kinda tell you where you are in the world might be helpful especially before the third party map makers get their act together. VR has already said everyone will have an atlas of the whole world to vaguely show where zones are in relation to other zones. But it would be cool to find slightly more zoomed-in maps in the world. However, I still don't think it's worth spending any amount of copper just to view it. Or maybe just view it once and take a screenshot of it? That's not a gold sink.
Anyway, I'm confused what you mean by "modders." I think they've made it pretty clear that it won't be possible for people to directly manipulate the client like in Skyrim. Player-created maps on external websites will of course be a thing, but that's not modding. I think a while ago I heard them toying around with the idea of players being able to sketch out their own maps in game (like a cartography skill) and then sell them for gold, but I'm fairly sure they have since walked away from that idea.
But I don't wanna drift too far from the original topic...
Bazgrim said:Anyway, I'm confused what you mean by "modders." I think they've made it pretty clear that it won't be possible for people to directly manipulate the client like in Skyrim. Player-created maps on external websites will of course be a thing, but that's not modding. I think a while ago I heard them toying around with the idea of players being able to sketch out their own maps in game (like a cartography skill) and then sell them for gold, but I'm fairly sure they have since walked away from that idea.
But I don't wanna drift too far from the original topic...
Modder might have been a bad choice of word. I was reffering to the ability to alter the GUI/HUD. Almost 100% certain they said UI customization was going to be possible. Not enough info yet on how much could be altered or redesigned for looks, etc. Time will tell on that.
Not to be "that lore guy", but I'm surprised nobody has looked at Pantheon-specific sinks. I'm talking chiefly about tithing and sacrifice to chosen deities. One of the primary questions driving larger stories in the game is going to be "Where are our gods"? The reasons for the question aren't important, we just know it is a question. I suspect that many cultures will have rites where you offer up expensive offerings to curry favor. The priests of other factions might insist on tithing you just to get in the door to worship at altars (a.k.a. you must pay to click the buff-giving statue).
I like this one because instead of a direct plat sink in most cases, often what you will do is offer up food, or (alcoholic) drinks, the more expensive to make the better. This helps circulate the economy while removing items from the game, inadvertently reducing the total "wealth" in the economy.
If it were up to me, permanent mounts would be supremely expensive as a baseline, but you could rent out mounts temporarily. Think being able to rent a horse from stables near the exit of Thronefast, the max rent duration getting you about halfway to the next city. Luckily, you could stop at the next stable and re-rent a horse. That keeps a ton of money sunk and at the same time it makes saving up and getting a real mount a real goal instead of just an uninteresting milestone (while ITSELF being another money sink). I think in conjunction with more conventional stuff like repairs and money for travelling by boat/carriage you could dramatically reduce the amount of circulating plat in this way.
Add to that list sacrificing old equipment/gear to the Deity of your choice, for buffs, good faction with that God. That has been mentioned a few times too. As for mounts far as I understood it..they would be later in the game, so that people wouldn't be bypassing content. And when you have seen the beautiful vistas and places to explore in game according to the last live stream, I think it is valuable that people get to know their surroundings, environment. Probably still have druids and wizards doing group ports or evacs as the situation requires, but again I think it was said that those porting classes would have to make it to the destination first (on foot) in order to gain the spell to port...correct me if I am mistaken. :)
Jimmayus said:Not to be "that lore guy", but I'm surprised nobody has looked at Pantheon-specific sinks. I'm talking chiefly about tithing and sacrifice to chosen deities. One of the primary questions driving larger stories in the game is going to be "Where are our gods"? The reasons for the question aren't important, we just know it is a question. I suspect that many cultures will have rites where you offer up expensive offerings to curry favor. The priests of other factions might insist on tithing you just to get in the door to worship at altars (a.k.a. you must pay to click the buff-giving statue).
I like this one because instead of a direct plat sink in most cases, often what you will do is offer up food, or (alcoholic) drinks, the more expensive to make the better. This helps circulate the economy while removing items from the game, inadvertently reducing the total "wealth" in the economy.
If it were up to me, permanent mounts would be supremely expensive as a baseline, but you could rent out mounts temporarily. Think being able to rent a horse from stables near the exit of Thronefast, the max rent duration getting you about halfway to the next city. Luckily, you could stop at the next stable and re-rent a horse. That keeps a ton of money sunk and at the same time it makes saving up and getting a real mount a real goal instead of just an uninteresting milestone (while ITSELF being another money sink). I think in conjunction with more conventional stuff like repairs and money for travelling by boat/carriage you could dramatically reduce the amount of circulating plat in this way.
I love both of these ideas.
THe buffs from statue or whatever it might be would have to worthwhile to get. That is where most games that I've played get it wrong. It because worthless or replaceable or too minimal
I assume that many or most of them would not be combat bonuses, but instead be related to various non-combat things. Most of the deities in current lore are dead or otherwise incapable of granting boons, so I'm not sure how it'd work. Games have invented literally millions of buffs over the years though, so I'm sure something could work.
corrupt guards that rough you up for money
banking fees
cover charge for pubs
merchants that sell expensive items that need to be identified before seeing the random stats
voting for patch days/times with money
charities / beggars
deity tithing
faction bribes
official forums perks
guild advertising
server vs server event fees
prank npc, pay them to screw with your friends
auction channel bold type fee
10% fee on merchant auto-sell of trash loot
npc bard that follows you around town and sings your praises for money
entry fee for screenshot of the month
keyring capacity
CanadinaXegony said:Ugh npc that follows you around and bugs you for money? "Keel heem...no no keel heem dead!" :P
And then they can be paid again to stop them from following you. Twice effective
This is a borderline post that is basically consolidating many smaller discussions, it will be allowed to remain open as long as it stays on topic of these specific options and doesn't drift into back and forth debates about item degradation, as we already have one of those ;)
Currency sinks: I like one that works alongside the environment.
I'm a warm weather lizardman who has to travel into the far reaches of a cold wastelend to talk to so-in-so. I'm gonna freeze my scales off for certain, unless I can get one of those nifty protection from cold scrolls that the vendors sold in the last town that I was in. I better go back and purchase one, in fact, I think I'll stock up and get a dozen just in case.
Just as you gain the coin loot from a fallen adversary, you too shall lose your coin loot upon being killed by certain mobs or NPCs.
All humanoid mobs?
You only lose your money if you and your group wipe to the mob.
Maybe your 3009 plat will be on the a_desert_outlaw_001 that killed you. You need to go kill it and get your money back, before someone gets to loot 3k from a random mob.