so the question is "do giving buff to someone encourage him to talk to you?"
with modern way of dealing with buff, the answer is no.
socialization need communication, giving buff isnt communicating. you can go through an instance with some people giving buff to each other and not say a single word (with the exception of "thank you").
to have people to talk to each other you need to give them subject of discution.
among the few things that could help people to talk to each other (mostly about strategy and tactics):
- buff being MP restrictive (for each buff you cast on a player you reduce your maximum available MP by a given amount, making buff more strategic but durable)
- having cross class combo (some attack may be more effective when you have a specific buff or when the enemy got a specific debuff.)
MP restrictive buff would make buff less trivial and the player would seek to make the best use of it.
cross-class combo would make a player seek players having the other part of his combos. (that would also make player coordinate their attack, like having player A use attack X after player B used attack Y, which need for player A and B to communicate.)
Zikkar said:Rint said:I believe buffs do help encourage socialization and community building; I’ve met and still maintain great friendships with people all over the world due to either them assisting me with buffs or vice versa. The way EQ’s buffs were able to be cast on any level player really felt right, and IMO is a small part of what made EQ special for many people. Here’s hoping Pantheon follows this path…
This a thousand times
Yup agree with buffs to lower levels..if buff is too high you get the message that it didn't land on your target. But running by and casting heal on someone..when their hps are pretty low, is helpful..other shield buffs, kei etc. This promotes friendliness..lower levels or others will remember your kindness, this what community is about.
Buffs give bored players something to do that helps others. Great for guild recruiting. Great for building a helpful reputation.
Dont put arbitrary limits on the levels of buffs you can grant others. If they lowbie a little powerful fir a while, so what? I remember getting all buffed by people at the gates, then huntings mobs way to big and dying to stupidity. I learned.
If someone else doesn't, it's ok to let them stay stupid. There will always be stupid people. The world needs them too.
If people get too buffed and the game is too easy for them, life will go on and they are wasting their time, not enjoying the challenge that the game can give them. Their loss.
If someone is having a bad day and some random uber-toon walks up and buffs them enough that they can go slaughter a bunch of high level stuff, great! Best frustration destroyer.
This is a game. Enjoy what you do and the fun you have.
Beefcake said:Buffs give bored players something to do that helps others. Great for guild recruiting. Great for building a helpful reputation.
Dont put arbitrary limits on the levels of buffs you can grant others. If they lowbie a little powerful fir a while, so what? I remember getting all buffed by people at the gates, then huntings mobs way to big and dying to stupidity. I learned.
If someone else doesn't, it's ok to let them stay stupid. There will always be stupid people. The world needs them too.
If people get too buffed and the game is too easy for them, life will go on and they are wasting their time, not enjoying the challenge that the game can give them. Their loss.
If someone is having a bad day and some random uber-toon walks up and buffs them enough that they can go slaughter a bunch of high level stuff, great! Best frustration destroyer.
This is a game. Enjoy what you do and the fun you have.
Very well said Beefcake
Radeon said:Buffs are nice and all, but people like getting money off of them far too much. Is that bad? Nah, they'll probably leave the game and reflect on it later. The problem is the design that made some classes have the more noticable buffs that gave them the most cold hard cash.
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What I'd really like are items that buff, potions that don't cost a fortune. As a future Summoner I hope items can do unique things, because as we know anyone can play the game of "socializing" from doing anything! Minor Illusion into a carpet? Socialize! Give out expensive crafted booze and not understand anyone afterwards? Socialize! Fall though the zone? Socialize! Give out seventy stacks of bandages to every single Monk? Socialize! Train others uncontrollably? Socialize! Start a war out of no where? Socialize! Talk about politics? Socialize! Although there are a ton of negative ways, there are also a ton of positive ways that are much better at getting people to be more social than just buffing.
What is so terrible about people earning money buffing? I thought the whole idea was a player-based economy. At least they are providing a service. No one forces you to buy the buffs. You choose to because it's worth it. Same with Druid/wizard ports. You can always take a boat or run, but you buy a port because the price is cheaper than the time it takes to run.
Buffs don't always cost a fortune. If the price is too high, don't pay it. Make friends. Many people will do it for free. That's what a guild is for. That's what guild recruitment is for.
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No one is claiming that buffing is the only way to socialize. That is clearly a straw man argument. But, it IS A WAY of socializing, just like everything else you mentioned. You go socialize your way, we will go do it our way. No harm, no foul.
You want buffs, come to me. Unless you are an ******, I will give what I can for free.
Yeah help out the community..either charge or don't charge for buffs. I usually play a wizard so don't have that many beneficial spells I can buff people with, but my ports and levitation are where I can help out..I never charge, I just say on a donation basis...so do or don't. :) The only things I might have to charge for is ports to Planes or areas like that..that cost a reagent. If the reagent is cheap and easily gotten then it will again be a case of donation basis or not. Assuming of course that I will have access to these spells in Pantheon...don't know that yet. :)
Buffs are great for promoting interaction, which in some cases, leads to socialization. Interaction should always be the goal, and socialization is the fruits of that goal.
I also like the idea that you can cast buffs on any player of any level. However, I do think there should be reductions in place. I suggested a detailed system for this in another thread, but basically the short version is that the buff duration should be limited based on player level versus spell level. If a player is level 20, and the buff is a level 40 spell, it should have half the duration. That also creates a decision for players: do they want a similar buff that's less powerful but lasts longer, or a more powerful one that wears off quicker?
I'm all for having powerful buffs that last a long time in Pantheon, as they were in EQ. What I'm not for is giving newbies two hours of OP mode.
In EQ you had interactions between lower levels out in the world because of zones housing mobs of various levels. It forced socializtion, I really hope this aspect is upheld in Pantheon. I 100% hope to see a very similar buffing model as EQ had.
Most games now don't even have buffs, it's all baked in and passive. I much more enjoy the feeling of the rare opporunity of getting some high-level buffs and feeling invincible.
Dhampir said:I really want super long duration on buffs. I hate all the buffs in current MMOS that only last 10, 20, 30 minutes or even only 1 hour.
I really like having long duration buffs. Ones you can sell to players for gold.
Make 2 version of the max level buffs, 10-20 mins buffs, and hour long buffs cost reagents, that way selling them becomes more reasonable. They give the exact same beneffits the only diference is the dration.
Rint said:I believe buffs do help encourage socialization and community building; I’ve met and still maintain great friendships with people all over the world due to either them assisting me with buffs or vice versa. The way EQ’s buffs were able to be cast on any level player really felt right, and IMO is a small part of what made EQ special for many people. Here’s hoping Pantheon follows this path…
aye :)
Allowing players to buff each other encourages socialization. There are numerous versions of the definition of 'socialization' and/or 'social' but most of them deal with people interacting with each other. Do they encourage actually talking to other people? I guess you can do a drive-by buffing and not say a word to somebody but most of the time you either have to yell out you are giving buffs or somebody has to ask you if you can buff them.
Few things of note since it seems most ppl are adding a lot more to this discussion. ;)
I think buffs should have regulations and/or scaling concerns. A level 1 should not be able to get a level 60 buff. I'm pretty sure even in EQ1 where you could get some pretty strong buffs that you had to be level 45 iirc to get KEI. So some sort of regulation shoud be in place in order to not trivialize content whether it be a required level to be strong enough for the buff to land on you or simply scaling the buff back to accomodate for your level.
With saying this, I'm very on the line with this. It's not a huge ordeal for me if buffs scale in strength at all or if they can land on lowbies with full strength. EQ1 was pretty loose with buffing each other and it really didn't tarnish my experience with the game at all. I'd just hope for something as strong/powerful as an ability such as the KEI MGB combo was it would require a challenge to get. Players have to admit that MGB was pretty sweet especially when combined with other spells. Sort of like VGs All-in-1 buff you could get in APW. Definitely not as big as MGB but still was a blessing in its own right.
I love buffs and being able to buff lower levels. When I started out, there wasn't any high level characters, so I earned every kill. it wasn't until I was lev 20-ish that I got buffs from a lev 50 that had raced ahead in a hard core fashion.
These buffs only last an hour. Never once did I say, sorry guys, can't group, no KEI today...
And, if I have 2 accounts and I want to take my druid or cleric on one machine to heal or buff my lev 1 warrior, let me do what I want.
And, since I plan to have 2-4 lev 12-15's before I have a single lev 20, these buffs will be nice to "catch up" a little. I want to play several characters before I decide which to "main" to max level.
I couldn't care less about the progeny system. I have no plans to "retire" (delete? / make unplayable?) a chracter just for some minor perma buffs on a noobie character.
Rint said:I believe buffs do help encourage socialization and community building; I’ve met and still maintain great friendships with people all over the world due to either them assisting me with buffs or vice versa. The way EQ’s buffs were able to be cast on any level player really felt right, and IMO is a small part of what made EQ special for many people. Here’s hoping Pantheon follows this path…
I don't mind high level players helping out low lvl players, it a very human thing to do, to help out each other. But, i don't want to cuase a cripple effect to where they feel they need these buffs to go and kill things, EQ was guage properly to where you were more dependent of being in a group and the buffs you got from them, than going to a high lvl player and getting their buffs and solo. I would much rather be in a group and kill things and make more friends than search for a high level character and get his buffs and have him be my friend just becuase he's high level.
Unfortunately, people are more worried about controlling power leveling than creating community. The sacrifice of community in order to control something else has created sterile playing environments in game after game after game.
Buffs cannot create community when they are meaningless. Sadly, if they are meaningful, they will be used in other way besides in groups and some of those ways will upset people. Folks will still get their buff and leave. It's the nature of the beast that some people will exploit anything useful.
The question becomes which sacrifice is greater.. useless buffs and no power leveling (done that way) but a sterile community... or a thriving community and some power leveling.
jpedrote said:I suggest buffs scaling with levels.
If a lvl 50 buffs a lvl 10 player, the buff only gives a small power increase, but the downscaled buff is 5-10% stronger than any other buff that players have available at level 10.
That would make sense considering that's how they are handling twink items. Tbh, I don't think buffing a newbie can really be considered "powerleveling." But I'd be okay with this especially since there will probably still be some unique effects from higher level spells that won't even be available to lower level players. I don't think spell lines will be the norm, so it won't just be a bunch of spells that do exactly the same thing as previous level versions, just with increased numbers. This makes buffs from higher level players valuable, without the numbers being out of whack.
What you can do for other people and the effort it takes.
Saving someone in trouble in that open world dungeon for example.
The more I've been thinking about open world dungeons ,the more I like them.Or if someone gets stuck under a collapsed pillar and you stop by to free that special someone
Going out of your way to help a player find a cure for a persistent ailment
Maybe it is not so much about the buffs,but how willing we are to stop by and help out.
Passive buffs linked to skills do little for socialization.
Silly things like repair or enchant armor could encourage socialization, if players were able to do it for other players on the spot.
The more we can do for each other ,the better for socialization.Buffs might be one of the few aspects we recognize to encourage socialization.Because sadly that is one of the few things MMOs have ever had to encourage socialization :-D
I'm actually deeply discouraged about Pantheon right now. The more I play P99, the more I remember what a bitter pill it was to swallow not buffing newbies when I started WoW with friends. I never bothered to buff newbies in WoW. Why would I? No matter what I cast, they got a lvl appropriate buff that did nothing for them.
VR has made it loud and clear plain that they fully intend to outright discourage players from giving newbies weapons and gear. I suspect it will be the same for buffs. I'm already discouraged by there being mounts, so that people won't be bothered to stop and buff each other because they are mounted. Then we're going to make buffs pretty much meaningless any time but in groups, too.
Very discouraged. I'm glad that the "OMG STOP THE POWERLEVELERS AT ANY COST!!!" people will be happy, but I'm just tremendously discouraged.
Consider EQ... only level appropriate rezes. Only level appropriate buffs, only level appropriate weapons... It immediately becomes a completely different game. Lvl 50 monk can't drag corpse for a lvl 8 person who fell in the well in BB? But we're supposed to socialize? Most lvl appropriate groups even can't make it down there, much less at the lvl you can fall into it.
We will be segregated by level range, as people are in WoW. No high level friends or low level friends, because you don't need each other and literally don't even have reasons to interact. Very unhappy with that scenario. :( The more I've thought about this, the less enthusiasm I have felt for Pantheon and more disappointment. *sigh*