@Cana @Hokanu
I absolutely get where ya'll are coming from here, as I thought just the same until pretty recently. The first time I was in a PUG outside of EQ and the group decided on a greed roll that would have been an upgrade for me, I absolutely felt like I got the short end of the stick there. I cursed this new generation of greedy gamers.
But - and not to be overly presumptious here - I think it might behoove some people to try and understand it from the other side.
The only way to truly make a Need roll as altruistic and morally "right" as you both want, is to ensure that every player within the group is on an even playing field as far as gear, coin, and potential for both (not to mention play time). Otherwise, I truly do feel like it's just a way for people to feel like they're doing the right thing.
What if we're in a group of six. 5 of those people are un-twinked and 1 of them is very twinked - with the exception of, say, his helmet. Then a nice helmet drops. Do you consider it more altruistic and "right" that the twinked fella de-facto wins the roll when the other 5 could very clearly benefit more from it?
What if the helmet can be equipped by everyone but has +10 str and only +2 int, and you have a wizard and a warrior in the party. It's clearly an upgrade for both, but it's also clearly MORE of an upgrade for(and traditionally worn by) the warrior. Are you going to step-in and decide who gets to roll need and who doesn't? It has Armor Class on it, so it could be need for everyone. Who decides who has more of a need?
It's not cynical or wrong to understand that if person A "needs" that upgraded helmet that just dropped, person B could "need" it just as much to sell and replace the even worse helmet he currently has on. Who has more of a need? Just because it's an immediate upgrade, that makes it more of a need than those who could benefit from selling it and getting an eventual upgrade as a result? Why?
Now, am I saying that if I join a group, I'll demand that everyone rolls on everything? No. In fact, not only have I never done that, but I have ALWAYS suggested everyone roll Need before Greed, because it personally makes me feel good inside when someone gets a nice upgrade. But nor do I think that rolling on everything necessarily makes the rest of the MMO population a bunch of greedy dirt bags for wanting the same thing - an upgrade.
Frankly, I think both sides are equally as greedy. One side just tries to make their greed have a shinier coat of paint in the name of altruism.
When I join a group, PUG or otherwise, I'll always follow the consensus of the group. If people want to roll NbG, then that's what we'll do. If people want to roll on everything, then that's what we'll do. I understand both sides, so I don't think anyone is lesser for it. Pigeonholing an entire portion of the population as "greedy" just because they may see things differently, that's what makes me sad.
Edit: Of course this doesn't apply to no-drop/no-sell items. If it's a no-drop that only the warrior can equip, then of course it should default to the warrior.
I believe having an ingame system for loot has some benefits, the biggest being preventing ninja looting. Is it needed well that is always up for debate of course and each side has it's merits and drawbacks. As this game is going to be based on community though I believe a lot of this will kind of work itself out to be honest if they don't put an automated system in.
Personally I think BoP items should be very rare unique items so I hope there is not a ton of those, NBG is or should not be an issue at all. If noone needs then I hope it can at least be rolled to sell or do something with crafting so it doesn't just rot.
For me personally NBG on loot is the way to go. As people keep bringing up that they are in the group they are entitled to loot what happens when it doesn't suit you? Here is an example, Mob A drops War sword, you being an Enc have no business using it and will just sell meanwhile the War could legitimately use it for an upgrade. You win the roll, but the group continues clearing. Now you kill Mob B that drops an Enc only item that you really need. Well now everyone is going to roll on that and hey lets just say the War wins for giggles and is just going to sell to spite you for taking the sword you didn't need, even though it may be worth 1/4 of the sword. Now neither of you have an upgrade that you could use literally right away just because you feel entitled to everything that drops. What else do you get this whole time? Oh yeah xp, companionship, and yeah other loot is going to drop too. That is a reward already, sure you didn't get the 5k sword but guess what else could happen. You kill Mob A again and oh my god would you look at that, the War already has it as an upgrade and now you can win it because noone needs it anymore.
Not everyone is going to agree on that system though so when forming a group or getting a replacement the group leader should at least be dictating how the loot is going to go in the group. If you don't like it then maybe you don't group with them. Maybe you do and it ends up being such an amazing group with a tons of extra loot and realize that it can work that way. People will have a preference but I feel like it needs to be up to the players and not the game forcing you one way or another. Having an automated system that you just have to set one way or another can work great in this scenario.
Remember the social aspect of the game though and how word will get around. If you know player y always does it the way you hate or is a known ninja looter or whatever the case is then you can deal with it how you want. I just want it to be up to the players at the end of the day but to have a great community NBG is the obvious choice. I hate when someone gets what there after and just bails on you been there done that, but hey don't invite them next time is all I'm saying.
Both sides beautifully articulated from both Cana, and Tray. I just think that a good ol discussion and then during it someo happily conceding or if not wanting to concede a roll between people who have a good case on looting the item is a great system either way. It's human, it invited kindness as well as community.
And on a side note I absolutely would give that ripped shirt dude the$100 bill if he asked for it killua, that is in my opinion a perfect example of how it should be. Sure some people are deceitful in this situation, but good comes with bad sometimes and vice versa, that makes the community feel alive, not like a slot machine. And reputations will be made... Maybe I am lucky living in Australia, my experience of the world and people around me is a good one, but the same is my experience of MMOs like what Pantheon wants to create. I see that aspect of the mmo as a critically important one to building character, community and the world itself.
A wonderful insight though and very compelling Tray, I do completely understand your logic, it's sound, but it doesn't suit right when I am hoping to build friendships with my comrades. Let's talk about it not just roll dice and snatch the winnings
Another thing to consider is if you are an altruistic person along with a couple others in your group, then even with a system where everyone rolls you can fulfill your own "feel good" lack of care for personal progression playstyle. You can pass in hopes the person who can immediately use the upgrade can win OR you can all ALSO roll and then give the item to the person who it would upgrade, tipping that persons odds of getting the upgrade to as high as 83.33% while still not forcing your own personal preferences upon others or attempting to dictate what their time/effort might be worth.
Just give options to the group leaders. If there are casters that expect to be able to roll on tank gear that a tank might actually need, let them spend hours trying to put a group together and find a tank. I am highly confident that NBG will be the most widely used and accepted system, but if people want to try something different, they should be able to. Reputation is supposed to matter in this game and I hope people realize that if you set the expectation that you feel you should literally be able to roll on everything, you come off as more of a mercenary for hire than someone people will want to add to their friends list. Each player is able to provide a sense of value in the companionship that they offer to others. I am not looking to join up with mercenaries ... had plenty of that in WoW with the dungeon finder experience. Demonstrate that you are a team player and the last thing you will ever need to worry about is getting loot. Friends take care of each other. Personally, I consider it the ultimate privilege to be able to help someone else with their progression. I can work on my own stuff at any given point in time ... creating a memory that leads to a new friendship is where the magic is.
Hokanu said:Both sides beautifully articulated from both Cana, and Tray. I just think that a good ol discussion and then during it someo happily conceding or if not wanting to concede a roll between people who have a good case on looting the item is a great system either way. It's human, it invited kindness as well as community.
And on a side note I absolutely would give that ripped shirt dude the$100 bill if he asked for it killua, that is in my opinion a perfect example of how it should be. Sure some people are deceitful in this situation, but good comes with bad sometimes and vice versa, that makes the community feel alive, not like a slot machine. And reputations will be made... Maybe I am lucky living in Australia, my experience of the world and people around me is a good one, but the same is my experience of MMOs like what Pantheon wants to create. I see that aspect of the mmo as a critically important one to building character, community and the world itself.
A wonderful insight though and very compelling Tray, I do completely understand your logic, it's sound, but it doesn't suit right when I am hoping to build friendships with my comrades. Let's talk about it not just roll dice and snatch the winnings
Tray did articulate excactly what I've been failing to convey, but even in his scenario with the twinked character a friendship could be made. Imagine playing a twinked character with a full armory of gear ready to equip once you reach a certain level, and joing a party who happens to drop a piece fo gear that would be an immediate upgrade for you but you having better equipment just beyond that items level decide to let it go to the character struggling to keep cloths on their back. They could sell it and purchase some much needed upgrades.
NBG can easily be abused, as Iskar pointed out there will be people who already own a valuable drop and simply unequip it before joining a party, or twinked characters with access to funds that a first time character could sorely need. Just think about it, you could have a party where the warrior is 100% twinked with maxed out currency and a cleric still rocking lvl 5 shoes in a lvl 15 party that doesn't have any abnormal benefits. An upgrade for the warrior drops, but the warrior already has it or has gear that make that sword a very slight upgrade, while the cleric NEEDS the funds from selling the weapon just to get level approipate gear, who really needs it?
Just let parties decide for themselves how to distribute possible loot, no automated systems that prioritize classes please!
I think just keep it like it was in EQ before a loot system, let the players decide. Ninja looters will get sorted but I do have some thoughts.
Need/Greed/Pass System - what you see in most MMOs now, but mostly refering to WoW. The system just doesn't work outside of people you know and trust. You will find people that fall into these areas:
1. Doesn't care rolls Need on everything will vendor, sell, market to make a profit and buy what they need to get to end game where the better loot is. They won't think twice and when something drops that someone needs and speaks up, it's too late before they already clicked.
2. Ignores the system all together and is general the reason why ppl ask "who hasn't rolled?"
3. People that actually use the system the way it should be used but get anger at the fact that no one else is.
4. Passes on everything because there is always someone in the group that will roll Need on something they don't need.
5. Rolls need on everything just to get the window out of the way because it's annoying, always asking ppl to wait to loot till after combat. Gets very annoyed when someone loots.
That is based on experience from my time in WoW and drifts over into liked system. Overall just don't see it being a good system.
Now with that said, a few friends and I were talking early and we liked the "Shared Inventory" that we saw from Pillars of Eternity 2 and got us to thinking.
If you are solo, loot is normal like in EQ.
If you are grouped/raid, then when you loot it goes into a shared inventory for the party/raid. The combined Max Carrying capacity of the group/raid determines how much can be carried in this stash.
when you first loot, maybe a icon appears off to the side, or is no longer greyed out on the bar at the bottom.
Clicking opens up a small scrollable window that shows everything that has been loots. Click a corpse and items go into stash. Players can decided: "Roll, Pass, Toss-out".
rolling means you roll against everyone else that clicked that.
passing means you pass, you dont get a roll.
toss-out, if everyone clicks this then it's discarded.
Players can access it and click on the options anytime they want. If in a hairy situation then you can wait till combat is over to decided, or wait till you get to a safe location.
If you win the roll then it goes to you and is placed in your inventory, and counts towards your individual weight. You don't have to worry about corpses disappearing before you loot, as you already looted it.
If by some chance the shared inventory hits that carrying capacity then you become encumbered and suffering from the same effects as if you were weighted down but it effects the group.
If you assign a master-looter, then he/she can choose where the loot goes. Click on the items in the shared stash, he/she can choose you allow into open roll, allow useable classes to roll, give to player, toss-away.
Open roll means that everyone can roll on it.
Useable classes means that only those that can use this will roll, others cannot. Defined by the item on who can use it. If paladin, warrior, dire lord only, then only those can roll on it, for example.
Give to player means the master loot can assign it to a person in the group/raid and it will go directly to said player.
Toss-away, throw it out of the stash, discarded.
Food for thought, something that a few ppl and myself thought about and kinda like. Has some issues but figured I throw it out there and see what ya'll thought.
I fully expect to see NBG as an option for us to utilize. I understand that there are issues with it but these are things that I personally haven't really had to deal with. If someone wants to risk their reputation by rolling on something that they don't actually need, I want that situation to be possible. I want the greedy guys to try and pull that crap because a lot of people I know keep an eye out for it and if people try to do something shady with any form of consistency, it's only a matter of time before they are exposed. NBG works wonders when it's used as designed. If people exploit that, so be it, but I'm not worried about that being an issue in a game where reputation matters. Let someone roll need on the breastplate that they already have ... I want that situation to happen. In my experience, most people are good people. They aren't going to soil their reputation for any piece of loot ... and again, if they are indeed willing to do that ... I'm comfortable with that being a possibility. The only game that I have ever played where this was an issue was WoW and guess what ... it was while using Dungeon Finder. You know why people pulled that crap? Because they were on a different server and we probably wouldn't run into each other again. When I'm playing a game where reputation actually matters, I'm always on my best behavior. Not just personally, but also as a group leader. I want people to be confident in my ability to lead groups ... to utilize a fair loot system, seek out players who abide by it, and swiftly deal with those who don't. If someone manages to cover their tracks and sneak an extra piece of loot here or there, so be it. I always keep an eye out for the sneaky rogues ... =P
oneADseven said:Just give options to the group leaders. If there are casters that expect to be able to roll on tank gear that a tank might actually need, let them spend hours trying to put a group together and find a tank. I am highly confident that NBG will be the most widely used and accepted system, but if people want to try something different, they should be able to. Reputation is supposed to matter in this game and I hope people realize that if you set the expectation that you feel you should literally be able to roll on everything, you come off as more of a mercenary for hire than someone people will want to add to their friends list. Each player is able to provide a sense of value in the companionship that they offer to others. I am not looking to join up with mercenaries ... had plenty of that in WoW with the dungeon finder experience. Demonstrate that you are a team player and the last thing you will ever need to worry about is getting loot. Friends take care of each other. Personally, I consider it the ultimate privilege to be able to help someone else with their progression. I can work on my own stuff at any given point in time ... creating a memory that leads to a new friendship is where the magic is.
Ah the joys of being a tank or a healer in a NBG group, almost never having to roll against anyone and often being the one ensuring so with group lead. Tough luck INT casters and other DPS.
That's a bit idealistic. There are plenty of obnoxious or just unsavory people playing these games, along with those who would/will cheat the system any chance they can if it lets them. Why would anyone try anything different if NBG were the widely used system? If they want to make some money to buy anything they could easily go dupe some random group that will literally have no way of ever knowing it is happening, heck they could probably do it again a few days to a week later. Making friends and building a community is great and all but grouping with me one time does not make someone my friend. Building a reputation and trust takes time, it takes repeat interaction and grouping experiences. Until that point then we are just a few random strangers wanting to get some exp & loot more efficiently than we can alone.
I guess that's what it comes down to iksar, trust in your community. We all have varying experiences, my experiences have kept me positive towards trusting people before I distrust them, I completely understand how some peoples experiences have caused them to be negative towards trusting people first. Fortunately we will be given choices here and almost definitely VR will let us decide in each group we form. I look forward to sharing loot with my like minded folk who I have enjoyed waving the flag with in this thread :)
Edit: and also I look forward to playing in RNG decided groups with the others and sharing loot that with them that way :)
The fewer options the better i would think. Want or don't want. Roll or give to someone. If you have need and greed added in people will exploit. I don't see why we cant just have a want or dont want. Anything else can be discussed and the loot master just gifts it to whomever they want.
I was going to post a new thread about this but then I found I was beaten by over 2 years. =D
So here's my thoughts:
I'm going to agree with those saying that they want a free-for-all looting system and for Ninja Looting to be a possible thing, because I feel like it really reinforces the idea of this being an old-schoot community-driven game where your actions can have consequences.
Although I never got to experience EQ1, the term "Ninja Looting", from what I've read, actually originated back then and it was all about being the first one in a group to open a chest and loot everything inside it as quickly as possible, hence the "ninja" analogy. The term didn't really start to become famous until the days of Vanilla WoW however, because since you couldn't really solo in EQ1 and your reputation meant a LOT in that game, most players who tried to ninja would quickly get a bad rep and have no choice but to start a brand new character.
So if VR truly wants to "return to the form" of the original Everquest with Pantheon, I think 100% free-for-all looting and old-school group discussions over who gets what loot needs to come back as well, rather than a bunch of new-school rolling systems and restrictions designed to prevent ninja-ing.
Come on now. Cheering on ninja looting. That was a system that only benafited the jerk offs in the game. No one sat at frenzy camp on a waiting list for 6 hours only to have the rogue grab the belt and /q while the group shrugged and said " well there goes his reputation, that's part of the game o-well"
The rogue logs in a day later and joins his guild where he goes about his day after screwing a whole group of random players. This does not hurt his reputation to go make a new character. His guild/buddies got his back, there is no message board that his name goes on a **** list and banned from grouping. Just another flawed system that someone took advantage of, that should be fixed.
Group looting is up to the group, random,NbG,dice,rock paper scissors.... whatever they want and agree on. But not just some old system where the warrior is saving the group from the rest of the trash mobs while some jerk off groups the loot and ditches group.
You don't leave your front door unlock saying that if someone stole your stuff his reputation while be flawed and the police will catch him. ( I know a big jump from a video game )
PA - no rogue reputation was harmed in making this story.
If reputation is a deterrent, you also have to remember false accusations toward other players. Nothing stop a player from looting and pointing fingers to someone else in the group. Next thing you know everyone is blaming everyone and group is destroyed from this lazy system. And yes I have seen it where everyone "looks" at loot on corpse and somehow it has vanished. Now someone who didnt loot is having to defend themselves from something they didnt do.
Definitely what SoWplz says. Ninja looting is *not* a plus to the game or the community.
Anything but trash loot should be rolled on as the default option.
Items that cannot be sold should go on a need/greed basis with a character than cannot use the item unable to roll need. There is no excuse whatever for a cloth armor class rolling need on plate armor and getting it ahead of a plate armor using class if all the clothie can do is sell it to a merchant for 10 copper pieces.
Items that can be sold are more debatable - need/greed works for them too but there is a good argument that since they are worth real coin anyone in the group should have an equal chance to get the item.
SoWplz said:Come on now. Cheering on ninja looting. That was a system that only benafited the jerk offs in the game.
I wasn't trying to cheer on ninja looting. I simply felt like it might add to the overall old-school feel of the game if the original EQ1 system was brought back.
dorotea said:Definitely what SoWplz says. Ninja looting is *not* a plus to the game or the community.
Anything but trash loot should be rolled on as the default option.
Items that cannot be sold should go on a need/greed basis with a character than cannot use the item unable to roll need. There is no excuse whatever for a cloth armor class rolling need on plate armor and getting it ahead of a plate armor using class if all the clothie can do is sell it to a merchant for 10 copper pieces.
Items that can be sold are more debatable - need/greed works for them too but there is a good argument that since they are worth real coin anyone in the group should have an equal chance to get the item.
I generally agree with this, ninja looting isn't a fun mechanic and doesn't add depth to adventuring (except for the person deciding to be rude). Need or greed is a good system that covers a lot of ground, and gives room for groups to come to agreements on how to handle niche situations. Obviously there should be a variety of loot options for groups to set up before heading out, like EQ2's system. That gives necessary flexibility with the default typically being need or greed.
Tralyan said:@Cana @Hokanu
I absolutely get where ya'll are coming from here, as I thought just the same until pretty recently. The first time I was in a PUG outside of EQ and the group decided on a greed roll that would have been an upgrade for me, I absolutely felt like I got the short end of the stick there. I cursed this new generation of greedy gamers.
But - and not to be overly presumptious here - I think it might behoove some people to try and understand it from the other side.
The only way to truly make a Need roll as altruistic and morally "right" as you both want, is to ensure that every player within the group is on an even playing field as far as gear, coin, and potential for both (not to mention play time). Otherwise, I truly do feel like it's just a way for people to feel like they're doing the right thing.
What if we're in a group of six. 5 of those people are un-twinked and 1 of them is very twinked - with the exception of, say, his helmet. Then a nice helmet drops. Do you consider it more altruistic and "right" that the twinked fella de-facto wins the roll when the other 5 could very clearly benefit more from it?
What if the helmet can be equipped by everyone but has +10 str and only +2 int, and you have a wizard and a warrior in the party. It's clearly an upgrade for both, but it's also clearly MORE of an upgrade for(and traditionally worn by) the warrior. Are you going to step-in and decide who gets to roll need and who doesn't? It has Armor Class on it, so it could be need for everyone. Who decides who has more of a need?
It's not cynical or wrong to understand that if person A "needs" that upgraded helmet that just dropped, person B could "need" it just as much to sell and replace the even worse helmet he currently has on. Who has more of a need? Just because it's an immediate upgrade, that makes it more of a need than those who could benefit from selling it and getting an eventual upgrade as a result? Why?
Now, am I saying that if I join a group, I'll demand that everyone rolls on everything? No. In fact, not only have I never done that, but I have ALWAYS suggested everyone roll Need before Greed, because it personally makes me feel good inside when someone gets a nice upgrade. But nor do I think that rolling on everything necessarily makes the rest of the MMO population a bunch of greedy dirt bags for wanting the same thing - an upgrade.
Frankly, I think both sides are equally as greedy. One side just tries to make their greed have a shinier coat of paint in the name of altruism.
When I join a group, PUG or otherwise, I'll always follow the consensus of the group. If people want to roll NbG, then that's what we'll do. If people want to roll on everything, then that's what we'll do. I understand both sides, so I don't think anyone is lesser for it. Pigeonholing an entire portion of the population as "greedy" just because they may see things differently, that's what makes me sad.
Edit: Of course this doesn't apply to no-drop/no-sell items. If it's a no-drop that only the warrior can equip, then of course it should default to the warrior.
I agree. This is where I want the game to be:
Need before Greed mechanism in place. Everyone can roll need on every item regardless of class/level/gear etc. It is simply just a mechanism to streamline the looting, but the players in each respective group would decide on their looting rules before starting. If someone wants to break that pact and "steal" an item, that should be allowed. Group with people you trust. I DO NOT think the game should allow a character lurking in the shadows, outside of the group, to run up and steal loot off a corpse. Only players in the group should be able to "see" the loot.
A lot of people have said how they want the 'game to decide' who gets the loot (ie If you're not the right class or the current helmet you have has more stregth it won't let you select Need). I personally despise this, and if that is the direction the game goes I would be hard pressed to continue to play. Letting the players decide who gets the loot is one of the most important aspects for me.
In a random pick-up group I prefer a simple roll system where everybody has an equal chance of winning, and where you don't have to decide between need/greed before the roll. There is no reason to encourage anti-social behavior up front like declaring a false need.
If you win, you have every right to keep the loot, and I won't hold it against you, but if I win something that won't upgrade me, and I know or sense that another group member is particularly disappointed by not winning it because it's someting they need, I will gladly give it to them. Chances are I will have "bought" myself a friend for life which is more valuable to me than any virtual game item. And who knows, he or she may return the favor one day when I most need it. Simply standing back from the roll, or declaring a greed, would not give me this opportunity, and there would always be that lurking suspicion in the back of my mind that I'm being a sucker.
In the long run, luck will be distributed evenly between players. In a NbG system, luck favors the dishonest and greedy.
Of course all this is irrelevant if you're in group where you trust each other enough to figure it out between you as you go along.
Jabir said:In a random pick-up group I prefer a simple roll system where everybody has an equal chance of winning, and where you don't have to decide between need/greed before the roll. There is no reason to encourage anti-social behavior up front like declaring a false need.
If you win, you have every right to keep the loot, and I won't hold it against you, but if I win something that won't upgrade me, and I know or sense that another group member is particularly disappointed by not winning it because it's someting they need, I will gladly give it to them. Chances are I will have "bought" myself a friend for life which is more valuable to me than any virtual game item. And who knows, he or she may return the favor one day when I most need it. Simply standing back from the roll, or declaring a greed, would not give me this opportunity, and there would always be that lurking suspicion in the back of my mind that I'm being a sucker.
In the long run, luck will be distributed evenly between players. In a NbG system, luck favors the dishonest and greedy.
Of course all this is irrelevant if you're in group where you trust each other enough to figure it out between you as you go along.
Generally I am the same along this character. What I have learned from NBG discussions here and the good arguments against the classic understanding of NBG is: if I am in a classic NBG kind of situation, to then offer the item I have upgraded to the group for a greed roll where I dont roll. That way I get the upgrade, but the group gets an item they can roll for greed or do whatever. Granted this doesn't stop me from filling my bags with garbage loot to "put up". This makes flat-out greed rolls easier and as Jabir mentions to allow the members to make personal decisions to make swaps once the loot is divvyd based on character bias.
I think loot options are definately nice, i feel like early warcraft loot system was pretty good in terms of picking up an item, but i dont like level limits on items, i dont see a problem with someone making content theyve already done a little bit easier, its a reward for putting in the time, but i do think the rolling system wher eyou could select need, greed, pass was pretty nice. personal loot is a complete turn off and will make it so players only have to play for themselves and before you know it you have WoW:BFA to make a long story short.
There are pros and cons to every looting system. And ninja looting can occur in everyone one of them. Trying to create a system to combat ninja looting is pointless.
Also. The updated EQ loot system is actually extremely complex and imo the best loot system I've played with. It allows you to assign need, greed, and pass to every item you encounter. Basically allowing you to automatically pass in trash items if you so wish.
It also still allows for outside looting of corpses (after a certain amount if time has passed, iirc 15 mins on a 30 min loot timer). Which imo was one of the most community centric mechanics in EQ looting. Your group killed a mob that dropped a no drop item that noone can use... you ooc then item is rotting and another player gets an upgrade.
Being fearful of people ninja looting is valid. But so is being fearful of people training on purpose, but we arent trying to design anything to combat that. Its interesting to me how people pick and choose what negative aspects they want. And which they don't, instead of trying to eliminate them all. Also. There were NOT alot of guilds in EQ1 that allowed players to have a terrible reputation. Ninja looting, training, scamming were all things that would get you removed from most guilds.
jfrombaugh said:SoWplz said:Come on now. Cheering on ninja looting. That was a system that only benafited the jerk offs in the game.
I wasn't trying to cheer on ninja looting. I simply felt like it might add to the overall old-school feel of the game if the original EQ1 system was brought back.
Actually Ninja looting was more than that. As in EQ1 there was no group-only mechanic to looting. ANYONE could walk up and loot, which was dangerous when your group was killing several mobs at once, to have someone sneak up and loot before you were finished.
I've come here to play a game I'm not in the least bothered about the loot it's a bonus to me and if someone feels the urge to take it then I don't give a S**T let them have it. I prefer to play with folks and make friends not coin...Coin comes with investment in the game and the people you group with normally have the right morals and things sort them selves out if not I don't group with them again. Loot has become the scurge of MMO's and made people real greedy imo. There never has and never will be a perfect way to deal with items in a game so finding that nice group of players will always resolve the loot issues for me.