Forums » The Bard

What Weapons and Armor would you like to see?

    • 389 posts
    February 27, 2020 2:07 PM PST

    Qulash said:

    I do not see why a bard must have plate just to get in a raid tank group. There are plenty of other classes that can be put there that will not have plate. 

    I can only see bards as a jack of all trades class, an entertainer, but not as a tank class. 

     

    Name a line up where that other class doesnt stand oor? Also, I suggested a set up where a bard might not where plate but stand oor and throw knives.... why not build on that? Are you a bard? We need ideas not just criticisms.

    Lastly, its gonna be pretty hard to convince bards to take a step backwards when all your argument is what you "see". Its pure subjective opinion thats not even attempting to establish itself with anything other than the realism perspective (which I understand and consider), but it does not address the objective truth of the core mechanics that are being highlighted, and so I guess it ends there? =p Im not willing to give up that utility out right because of realism. If theres no real strong role for a bard to be in the battle with the prime group your killing the star bard position, with few to no ideas for how this will be rectified. Just criticisms. Dont even seem to care about the potential effects/losses to the class. indoor pulling in silk? are we going to get super high avoidance like the monks did? or are we not pulling now? Im just wondering whats the "vision" lookin like. Does your entainer dance for inspiring the raid? whats up. Talk to me. Lets try to build something.

     

     


    This post was edited by Alyonyah at February 27, 2020 2:13 PM PST
    • 591 posts
    February 27, 2020 2:40 PM PST

    I don't care a whole lot either way here, but I lean toward NOT wearing platemail. The only reason I lean that way is because I don't see a NEED for a Bard to wear plate. If there is a lore based reason for the Bard to be the 2nd 'special case' of a non-tank wearing plate, I wish VR would release that tiny bit of Bard info soon.

    To me the Bard's role is quite reasonably fulfilled with Cloth, Leather and Light Mail. We have very limited hard info on the Bard at present. But one thing we know for a 'set in stone' fact is that Bard will be a Crowd Control role. We have seen many streams with an Enchanter performing his role as a CC and doing just fine wearing Cloth armor.

    Given the importance of "Balance" in any mmo, giving the Bard plate makes me expect that his direct damage will take a hit. I don't plan on being a solo player, but Bard might well be a good choice of character when I want to explore by myself and I'd like to not be one of the worst soloers in the game.

     

    To me a Bard has a bit of rogue(small r) quality to his traditional lore, and as such should be handy with most any 1-hand weapon just like a Rogue is. Wizard is the last class anywhere that needs a melee weapon, but Pantheon Wizards will have them and I see no reason for Bard to be the one class that doesn't have them. As a practical reason, I imagine that every character needs a melee weapon if only for the auto-attack system to work properly.

     

     

     

    • 389 posts
    February 27, 2020 3:26 PM PST

    Jothany said:

     We have seen many streams with an Enchanter performing his role as a CC and doing just fine wearing Cloth armor.

     

    The chanter has always had runes it can chain for defense and things of that nature to do the job of CC. As is the tradition thats what they have here. What will bards get if their defense is gone?  Thats the question if no plate. Just like with pulling. Chanters rune monks evade tanks mitigate healers heal themselves and bards just run in circles. No thanks....... Maybe silk bards have evasion like monks cause they dance? Gettin kinda lame now. Perhaps a more rogue like class that wears light and does more dps/stealth? Cant just tear the class to nothing, gonna piss off alot of core players. I see a ton of take away ideas and few build upon ideas.

     

    And thats damned sad.

    • 1563 posts
    February 27, 2020 3:52 PM PST

    Not something I had considered but I have an open mind.  I can see the thought process behind bards not wearing plate (like in D&D). 

    Really only tank classes should require plate...yet clerics are plate wearers and direlords aren't. (i do understand the idea behind a lesser armored tank that utilizes self heals too though, as far as the direlord is concerned)

    In the end I don't know that it makes much difference.  If you are getting hit when fighting challenging content as a bard maybe you survive an extra 2 hits wearing plate over leather? 

    They could easily make the armor a bard wears lesser but provide some sort of defensive song that would balance it.  That might be a better way to go as far as class identity?

    In the end I'm guessing the reason behind both Bards and Clerics wearing plate was heavily influenced by Brad and EQ.

    If we are going to pick and choose our battles I think this is something that is a non-issue compared to many other things.


    This post was edited by philo at February 27, 2020 3:53 PM PST
    • Moderator
    • 8820 posts
    February 29, 2020 4:37 AM PST

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    • 56 posts
    February 29, 2020 5:32 AM PST

    Alyonyah said:

    Name a line up where that other class doesnt stand oor? Also, I suggested a set up where a bard might not where plate but stand oor and throw knives.... why not build on that? Are you a bard? We need ideas not just criticisms.

    Lastly, its gonna be pretty hard to convince bards to take a step backwards when all your argument is what you "see". Its pure subjective opinion thats not even attempting to establish itself with anything other than the realism perspective (which I understand and consider), but it does not address the objective truth of the core mechanics that are being highlighted, and so I guess it ends there? =p Im not willing to give up that utility out right because of realism. If theres no real strong role for a bard to be in the battle with the prime group your killing the star bard position, with few to no ideas for how this will be rectified. Just criticisms. Dont even seem to care about the potential effects/losses to the class. indoor pulling in silk? are we going to get super high avoidance like the monks did? or are we not pulling now? Im just wondering whats the "vision" lookin like. Does your entainer dance for inspiring the raid? whats up. Talk to me. Lets try to build something.

     

    Got it. I am going to do some brainstorming here my view on this class. I never (really) played a bard before but I will take its equipment from a point of view from 'my made up' Lore. I will probably do some faulty spelling and it probably will not fit in any way pantheon thinks about bards

    Bards. Bringer of news, Teller of tales, Singer of hearoes, diversity in skills. Bards are travellers earning their money by telling news and entertaining people with songs and stories. Bards are always welcomed to people as news is scarce and for their entertainment . Often they are specialized in a certain instrument, but their words are their most important tool or you could say, their weapon. They use that tool very well. Where a rogue would resort to picklocking for access and pickpocketing for money a bard would use his charisma with words for access or use entertainment to get the content of someones purse. 
    Most bards will travel around and only a few might settle when they are old and/or famous or end as a teacher in a bards guild. They will travel with armor that is light enough, but strong enough for survival. You should think leather or maybe light mail that does not hinder their movement in any way. They like to be able to move quick for dancing and be elegant towards customers and their clothing is often a selling point. Well made clothes does wonders in front of an audience. Intimidating heavy armor will only scare their audience away. 
    Bards are smart and know their strength is their voice. Not the sword. Not that they cannot wield a weapon, but it is just not their strongest one. In a adventurers group they will try to make the cooperation better, often with song or stories for more courage and morale and in battle, not unlike inspriational leaders would do. They will also try to intimidate the foe with yests, scaring, lowering morale or making them argue or even attack each other. They do not need to be in front of the line to do their job, most bards will use bows of even prefer crossbows besides their voice. by straying out of range they will have a good overview of the 'audience' battle and can change the outcome by using their songs or words.
    If they do need to fight in close combat, they will not wield great weapons, they are not trained to use something big like that, nor shields, both are too heavy for travelling anyway, but rather prefer lighter weapons like swords or daggers that are easy to carry. Because they are acrobatic dual wielding is something they could do as is kicking and I wouldn't be suprised to see some stunning acrbatic moves to get out of harms way. But even then their words are importand, making their target angry or clumsy or other scare tactics. Being acrobatic throwing knives is something they could be good at too, but throwing tomatoes would also fit this class very well.

    Better ? ;)

     

     

     


    This post was edited by Qulash at February 29, 2020 9:44 AM PST
    • 389 posts
    February 29, 2020 6:17 AM PST

    Yes this is MUCH MUCH better thank you ! =p Certainly some cool ideas. I really do like the idea of the bard being kind of an upright rogue. Like a rogue with a moral compass or at least that sort of charisma. You have put interesting images in my mind. This is how we grow for sure. I will think on this roguely bard a bit and see if I have something to contribute. It could be fun!

    • 1138 posts
    March 2, 2020 4:05 AM PST

    Just going to say, a bard in full plate is like a walking Stomp performance.

    Joking aside a bard is typically a social skills class.  In a game where only hack and slash maters they will have a rough time being relevent while staying true the source material.  What Pantheon does seem to need is more full crowd control classes.  To that end I would build it more towards a singing siren.  A primary debuffer/mezmerizer with a side order of buffer.  Heavy armor would not really fit there.  Even direct damage would not overly but what they actually bring to a group is a force multiplier.  If you can make 5 other people perform 25% better then you have more than paid for your slot.

    • 31 posts
    March 2, 2020 5:49 AM PST
    I like the charismatic rogue idea. That’s an awesome idea. I always thought that rogues and bard had a lot in common I how the bard skills are a dumb down version of theirs (eq bard). I think giving the bard a monk/rogue type FD/SoS would help with pulling and aggro.

    If you gave chain, rangers, rouges, direlords? and now bards that might spread out that armor type pretty thin in group/raid content. So I like the idea of using leather as well.

    As a range class you could go leather/cloth but then you start digging into the casters gear with focus effects and stats geared towards caster. Unless patheon makes gear drop specifically for certain classes. Cloth that is for All race All class gear would not suit bards IMO.

    A cool range bard would be fun though, give them more power like a chanter/shaman mix with temporary buffs like an EQ bard and watch groups just murder stuff. A good bard didn’t have to be poking stuff as long as the group kills stuff more effectively.

    A ranged combat skill set would be nice for evasion, but I can’t think of anything that would make it fair to the other ranged classes. Other than evac and runes caster are usually not very good at evasion. So Let’s think about this though you beef them up Spell/song wise and make it a high risk high reward class.

    • 31 posts
    March 2, 2020 5:49 AM PST
    I like the charismatic rogue idea. That’s an awesome idea. I always thought that rogues and bard had a lot in common I how the bard skills are a dumb down version of theirs (eq bard). I think giving the bard a monk/rogue type FD/SoS would help with pulling and aggro.

    If you gave chain, rangers, rouges, direlords? and now bards that might spread out that armor type pretty thin in group/raid content. So I like the idea of using leather as well.

    As a range class you could go leather/cloth but then you start digging into the casters gear with focus effects and stats geared towards caster. Unless patheon makes gear drop specifically for certain classes. Cloth that is for All race All class gear would not suit bards IMO.

    A cool range bard would be fun though, give them more power like a chanter/shaman mix with temporary buffs like an EQ bard and watch groups just murder stuff. A good bard didn’t have to be poking stuff as long as the group kills stuff more effectively.

    A ranged combat skill set would be nice for evasion, but I can’t think of anything that would make it fair to the other ranged classes. Other than evac and runes caster are usually not very good at evasion. So Let’s think about this though you beef them up Spell/song wise and make it a high risk high reward class.

    • 872 posts
    March 8, 2020 5:21 PM PDT

    Although we will likely see the EQ Bard's equipment line-up (full plate and 1h dual wield), I'd like to see a different Bard; more akin to the DAoC minstrel/bard.  More like a caster using an impliment, but instead of a wand or voodoo doll, its an instrument - while wearing light and medium armor and relying on archery if not relying on music as their arsenal.  Flashy blouses under light chain/leather vests and leather cloaks (assassin's creed style armor).


    This post was edited by Darch at March 8, 2020 5:32 PM PDT