Forums » Crafting

Thinking about crafting and fizzles

    • 72 posts
    August 12, 2016 2:30 AM PDT

    Fred..and his brother steve...dammit get back under the stairs steve!!! we know that crafting is a big part , but not a major part, do you think that finding rare crafting items...much like finding rare spell components to craft best spells should be in game? and on a side note...should you be able to "fizzle" depending on your crafting level?

     


    This post was edited by Grimvalor at August 12, 2016 2:31 AM PDT
    • 515 posts
    August 12, 2016 7:13 AM PDT

    As to the first part - absolutely!  Rare components should have a chance to drop off of ANY named mob - and the more powerful the creature - the rarer the component.

     

    And for the second part - You would really need to define "fizzle".  Are you talking about failing low-level combines so that you get nothing in return?  Are you talking about messing something up as a high level crafter and the result will be a degradation of the item by one level (meaning you get normal quality instead of high quality)?  We simply need YOUR definition of what a "fizzle" is.

    • 110 posts
    August 12, 2016 11:45 AM PDT

    Failing to craft something and losing your mats is fine as long as its skill based and not random. If I am a high level crafter I don't want to craft something that should be no challenge for me only for it to randomly fizzle for no reason. Attempting to craft things that are above your skill level and failing is very much in line with the tenant of "risk Vs reward".

    • 361 posts
    August 12, 2016 8:38 PM PDT

    Fizzle and losing items for recipes one is not really ready to combine is fine by me .... fizzling and losing items for a recipe below my current skill would irritate me....

    • 515 posts
    August 14, 2016 9:39 AM PDT

    Aye - in EQ2 you can fail your combine and depending on the level or rarity, it determines a fail but will return a rare item to you.

    • Moderator
    • 8765 posts
    August 14, 2016 5:27 PM PDT

    We actually had something like this in VG, but instead of "fizzles" they were called "complications" they would randomly pop up while crafting and if you were not prepared properly with extra ingredients to correct them, they would make it almost impossible to complete your crafting session successfully, it was also skill dependant which made them feel a lot more natural.

    • 5 posts
    October 21, 2016 9:17 PM PDT

    I am a bit late to this here thread but I absolutely loved the crafting in Vanguard. Loved Diplomacy too but that is a different matter. The crafting in Vanguard was just the right amount of everything and the complications were a nice twist that required some skill as a player as well. I would like to see a very similar crafting to what we had in Vanguard. Man I miss that game.

    • 1882 posts
    December 26, 2016 2:22 PM PST

    Kilsin said:

    We actually had something like this in VG, but instead of "fizzles" they were called "complications" they would randomly pop up while crafting and if you were not prepared properly with extra ingredients to correct them, they would make it almost impossible to complete your crafting session successfully, it was also skill dependant which made them feel a lot more natural.

    I like this. Crafting should not be guaranteed, just like adventuring. Even master craftsman occasional make mistakes or run into complications. An occasional failure is a nice idea.

    EQ2 had a basic mini game, with complications and took more than a basic click to do. Of course, they nerfed it so much eventually that it was almost impossible to fail.

    • 3224 posts
    January 16, 2017 1:19 PM PST

    Yes to fizzles and skill checks.   It stops me from falling asleep at the crafting station...oh question will we be able to put crafting stations in our homes,  ala EQII or will there be an "area" in the middle of the city to craft,  like in Vanguard?  Thinking Qalia area..

    • 167 posts
    January 17, 2017 4:27 PM PST

    Most of the crafting mats (dusts, powders, shards and crystals) in VG dropped from appropriate tier harvesting nodes as bonuses when you got to max yield, which was mostly acheived in group harvesting.  In the 1st raid dungeon the bosses dropped masterwork crystals as well as spells that were BIS for most classes.  Crafters received lots of love in early VG. 

    • 34 posts
    January 23, 2017 7:39 PM PST

    CanadinaXegony said:

    Yes to fizzles and skill checks.   It stops me from falling asleep at the crafting station...oh question will we be able to put crafting stations in our homes,  ala EQII or will there be an "area" in the middle of the city to craft,  like in Vanguard?  Thinking Qalia area..

     

    I have agree to "complications" as Kilsin put it. It would be awesome to create a crafting station but in our homes? If I am not mistaken, the last VR broadcast said that creating homes within MMO's can be enormous money pits and they are not sure if they are going to do it unless they could do it well. Preferably, it would be awesome to set up a crafting table in the middle of the market such as the tunnel in East Commonlands in EQ but there should be a limit on it such as being a master in that skill.

    • 4416 posts
    January 24, 2017 7:01 AM PST

    Uncertian said:

    If I am not mistaken, the last VR broadcast said that creating homes within MMO's can be enormous money pits and they are not sure if they are going to do it unless they could do it well.

    I think they used that phrasing when talking about voice acting.

    Brad said very confidently that there will eventually be housing in the game. He has extensive plans and wants to go all-out with it, so it will just take a while to get it done. You know how Brad is - if he's gonna do something, he's gonna make it quality. It's not just gonna be some afterthought that's tacked on. The housing system will likely involve almost every aspect of the world (including crafting, I'm sure), therefore they are already keeping those plans in mind and working around them in a sense to make sure they don't contradict themselves prematurely. That way, the housing system can be implemented as smoothly as possible when the time comes. But I imagine it'll probably be at least a few expansions until we get there cause it's a big deal.

    • 1179 posts
    January 24, 2017 11:11 AM PST

    I'd like to see complications and failures.  I think the more difficult and invovled you can make crafting, the better.

    • 1296 posts
    February 12, 2017 8:00 AM PST

    I've done a lot of crafting.  EQ2, VG, EQ1.  Tinkering in EQ1. Research in EQ1.  Poison mastery in EQ1.  Maxxed poisoning in EQ2.

    Did the whole "complication" crafting thing in VG, and honestly, it was the worst implementation of crafting I've ever had the displeasure of using. 

    Most people I know that had maxxed VG crafting said one of two things:  You need better gear.  OR You're doing it wrong.

    I had all yellow gear for my level, and would try combines appropriate for my level, to gain more than one pixel of experience per combine, and completely understood, at every possible level, how complications and reactions worked.  That was never the problem.

    The problem was that it was a punitive system, top to bottom, back to front, in every way.  There was no enjoyment or fun in VG crafting, in my opinion.  There was either onerous tedious grind, or guaranteed failure.  You could grind on blue combines and take ten times (not an exaggeration) as long, or try yellow combines and fail, no matter what.

    So, the issue here is two fold.  Some of the same developers who were in some small or large way involved in creating the frustration failure punitive nightmare that was VG crafting are making Pantheon.

    Some of the same developers who were in some small or large way involved in creating the frustrating failure punitive nightmare this is EQ1 crafting are making Pantheon.

    Oh, right, did I mention EQ1 has this?

    [Thu Feb 09 17:05:33 2017] You lacked the skills to fashion the items together.
    [Thu Feb 09 17:05:35 2017] You can no longer advance your skill from making this item.

    What is that?  The first log entry says I failed to make the item, I lacked the skills.  The second log entry says the item is trivial, in that I can't advance my skill from making it, because my skill is so high.
    These two things?  They should never be together.  If the items is trivial, I should make it 100% of the time, no exceptions.

    If you're going to have a crafting system with competitive shared loot, and crafting materials are going to come from that loot system, and concurrently, at the same time, in conjunction, you implement a crafting system whereby either through random complications beyond your control you WILL fail, or a "Trivial, but you failed" mechanic, crafting will forever be unpopular in your game.  Why?  Because you're not rewarding risk.  You're punishing the paying customer for playing the game the way it's intended, and that's just bad design and/or poor implementation.

    It might be a trial to be endured.  It may be that people are amazed and astounded that someone invested the time in such a horrific endeavor.  But that is not fun, nor entertaining.  That's punitive.

    tl;dr? IMHO:  No to fizzles.  No to impossible complications.  No to "trivial, but you failed".  Make it fun and entertaining, not punitive.

    • 165 posts
    February 12, 2017 2:19 PM PST

    I thoroughly enjoyed Vanguard crafting, for what it's worth...