Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

LFG Tools

    • 25 posts
    July 23, 2016 6:29 AM PDT

    Hs there been any information regarding LFG tools? For a group based MMO this will be an important tool.

    I played EQ1 from very early on where the LFG tool was turning on /lfg and sitting in a zone and /oocing "level 32 enchanter lfg", to when an LFG tool was added that allowed you to browse all people lfg and filter via class/level/other categories. 

    I've been thinking about the lfg tool and I can't really come up with anything that could be improved. 

    Anyone have any thoughts regarding this? Features you'd like to see?

    • 35 posts
    July 23, 2016 6:39 AM PDT

    The only thing World of Warcraft did right was the premade lfg tool. I am not talking about the raid finder/dungeon tool that just randomly jams you into a raid or group in an instance, but the premade group option where a person can start a raid or group and then build the raid or group from the people that apply.

    I hate instancing, but the premade group tool in Wow is really nice. You can log in, open the tool and say you want to do x dungeion or raid. You can apply. No lengthy shouting in chat channels to try and find a group. The premade groups also require travel as someone has to go to the actual dungeon or raid to summon others there which is a nice function. 

    The game did not get many things right, but the premade group option is best I have seen in a game for efficient grouping without ridiculous waiting and shouting in chat channels for hours is very nice.

     

     

     

     

    • 308 posts
    July 23, 2016 7:03 AM PDT

    Azzudien said:

    The only thing World of Warcraft did right was the premade lfg tool. I am not talking about the raid finder/dungeon tool that just randomly jams you into a raid or group in an instance, but the premade group option where a person can start a raid or group and then build the raid or group from the people that apply.

    I hate instancing, but the premade group tool in Wow is really nice. You can log in, open the tool and say you want to do x dungeion or raid. You can apply. No lengthy shouting in chat channels to try and find a group. The premade groups also require travel as someone has to go to the actual dungeon or raid to summon others there which is a nice function. 

    The game did not get many things right, but the premade group option is best I have seen in a game for efficient grouping without ridiculous waiting and shouting in chat channels for hours is very nice.

      

    Absolutely agree, and as long as there is no cross server group matching, your reputation will still have an effect on whether or not a group wants to keep you.

    • 25 posts
    July 23, 2016 7:30 AM PDT

    Good point about the cross-server matching, I had forgotten that was a thing. Player reputation is very important, my assumption was Pantheon was going to work as EQ1 did, you pick a server, make a character, and thats where that character lived (outside of server moves which were added later).

    That being said, I wouldn't want to see any type of "official" reputation attached to characters, i.e. a player rating attached to a character that showed up in the lfg window.

    • 149 posts
    July 23, 2016 7:40 AM PDT

    I really liked what Final Fantasy XIV did. They had a premade LFG tool for dungeons and whatnot but there was also a Looking for Party tool as well. You might ask "Wait, Aggelos, are those not the same thing?!" Well in a sense yes but the Party Finder didn’t automatically create a group for you. It was almost a poster board so you would see something like this:

    Title: LFM for Raid A


    Description: Looking for a learning group. I haven’t finished it yet so looking for people who would like to learn Raid A with me.


    Group: (this was a selection box showing the group make up and what was still missing and as a group leader you could specify what it is you wanted. Did you want two tanks or just one? Did you want a specific class(s)? You could set all of that and when people looked at it the boxes would be blank if the spot was open or colored in if the spot was already taken in the group.)


    You could even set specifics so not just anyone could join you if you desired. If there was a minimum item level that could be set and no one would be able to click your group and hit join unless they met the criteria.

    See screenshot below:

    https://cdn.mmos.com/wp-content/gallery/single-player-in-mmos/FFXIV-Party-Finder-Single-Player-in-MMOs.jpg

    • 610 posts
    July 23, 2016 7:41 AM PDT

    I would hate to have any part of the LFG system automated....just flag yourself /lfg and then shout in the zone your in. Have a tool like EQ where you can see everyone in your range that is LFG but for the health of the community please dont automate it. Make the chars have to talk to each other. And tbh if there is any cross server grouping or raids thats a deal breaker for me, nothing more than an excuse for people to be total asshats cause they know they probally wont ever have to deal with those team mates again.

    • 25 posts
    July 23, 2016 7:48 AM PDT

    Because I'm used to older games I tend to fall on the conservative when it comes to in-game tools. Like Sevens says, I think its important to make people talk to each other. 

    I've never played FFXIV but I'd say the screenshot Aggelos posted looks good except in my mind the Join Party button wouldn't exist. After finding a party you are interested in joining you would talk to the party leader and discuss.

    One thing I'd like to see is cross zone group invites. If I remember correctly in EQ1 you had to be in the same zone to invite someone to a group? Actually you may even have had to target them first?


    This post was edited by prongbuck at July 23, 2016 7:53 AM PDT
    • 200 posts
    July 23, 2016 7:52 AM PDT
    My personal feeling on it is the same as Seven's, I'd prefer as little automated system as much as possible, especially at the start. I may be biased tho, I played a healer in EQ and getting a group was usually no problem. I think when people have to make more of an effort, they make friends more easily too as that becomes so vital for enjoyable gameplay.

    It might turn out to be a bit of a problem later tho, when new people join a year in, or when they want to level alts. In that sense some sort of (non cross realm) system might prove useful. I'm not convinced these things create a situation that I'd prefer but at the same time I understand if it's difficult to find a group in the first place that that severely diminishes the fun.

    Has anything been mentioned about it?
    • 149 posts
    July 23, 2016 7:52 AM PDT

    prongbuck said:

    Because I'm used to older games I tend to fall on the conservative when it comes to in-game tools. Like Sevens says, I think its important to make people talk to each other. 

    I've never played FFXIV but I'd say the screenshot Aggelos posted looks reasonable fine except in my mind the Join Party button wouldn't exist. After finding a party you are interested in joining you would talk to the party leader and discuss.

    One thing I'd like to see is cross zone group invites. If I remember correctly in EQ1 you had to in the same zone to invite someone to a group? Actually you may even have had to target them first?

    That is an option you could set as wel in FFXIV. You could turn off the auto-join if you meet requirements option and it would replace the join with whisper so you would then send a tell to the group leader.

    • 25 posts
    July 23, 2016 7:55 AM PDT

    @nanoushka

    As far as I know it nothing has been mentioned. At least, I can't find anything searching the forums.

    • 781 posts
    July 23, 2016 9:26 AM PDT

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2369/group-finding-utility  this is what I could find, I remember we had talked about this a while back, took a minute to find it

    • 25 posts
    July 23, 2016 9:33 AM PDT

    Thanks for that Kelem, wish I had found it before I started this thread :)

    • 763 posts
    July 23, 2016 9:33 AM PDT

    When considering this subject, I think back to the basic Tenets of Pantheon (and EQ from which the majority are derived). It is to be an 'intensely social game'.

    Thus, when I consider the possible LFG tools that might be inplemented, I reject any that willl ultimately lead to less social interaction. Thus:

    1.   shard-wide (ie cross-server) tools should be out immediately (not least as some servers may use different rule sets).

    2.   auto-join/creation, 'teleport in to dungeon' etc type tools will also be out, I hope.

    What *should* be contained in a LFG tool?

    1.   Flags that can be set in addition to just '/ooc LFG at Orc 1 or 2'. These woula allow a LFM type tool to grab these flags/info.

    2.   A LFM tool would be usable by the group to find people in-zone whe have the LFG flag set and so take some of the painful process of basic admin out of the equation Sure, have a 'Whisper' button for the possible group members so you can more easily find and recruit them.

    3.   The tool would be extensible to help put groups together into a raid - though again, all would need to get to the place under their own steam etc. A raid channel *could* exist, but only within certain narrow limitations in order to avoid abuse by use as a global-channel. Preferably this would have limitations to current zone only for 'standard members' and perhaps multiple-zones just for the Raid Group-leaders. This would aid setting up the raid - but not allow a back-door to cross-zone chat channels.

    Either way, LFG/LFM type tools should only be there to make it easier to find candidates in the zone. They are not to enable somebody to sit in one zone farming exp until he gets an invite from 6 zones away for a dungeon 9 zones away from either with, or without, free travel. *That* would kill social interaction, chance meets, exploring, investigating content etc

    EDIT: Dammit - really must keep updating threads before clicking 'save' only to find a relevant thread update hehe


    This post was edited by Evoras at July 23, 2016 9:34 AM PDT
    • 9115 posts
    July 23, 2016 5:25 PM PDT

    prongbuck said:

    Thanks for that Kelem, wish I had found it before I started this thread :)

     

    So do I ;)

    Thanks, Kalem, I will let this one remain as the other link is in the Champion subforum and not everyone can access that.

    • 781 posts
    July 23, 2016 10:12 PM PDT

    Aye :) Anytime guys that is what this great Pantheon community is all about , helping one another. :) * cheers !

    • 200 posts
    July 24, 2016 7:52 AM PDT

    I have made bad experiences with LFG tools. The first LFG tool in WoW was so bad that almost no one has used it. You had to travel to the instance, in front of the instance was a huge stone and you could put your character to a queue. Later they replaced it with a dungeon finder. The first versions were also bad. The dungeon finder created the group for you und it could happen that in that group you hat 5 DDs and no tank and no healer. They improved it and made it crossrealm. But this made the community really bad. In The elder scrolls onlne you had exactly the same thing. 

     

    I do not need special tools to build groups. A global LFG-channel is enough. :)

     

    Greetings

    • 3016 posts
    July 25, 2016 12:57 PM PDT

    prongbuck said:

    Good point about the cross-server matching, I had forgotten that was a thing. Player reputation is very important, my assumption was Pantheon was going to work as EQ1 did, you pick a server, make a character, and thats where that character lived (outside of server moves which were added later).

    That being said, I wouldn't want to see any type of "official" reputation attached to characters, i.e. a player rating attached to a character that showed up in the lfg window.

     

     

    No pretty sure your "rep" would be accumulated like it was in vanilla EQ...ninja looter..not a team player, afk during group fight..amongst your peers.   If you're not a team player, word of mouth would get around.   No official tag...you work with your group or you don't ..and slowly get less invites to play.   So you are personally responsible for your own rep.    That's how it was..that's how it should be.

    • 781 posts
    July 25, 2016 2:42 PM PDT

    CanadinaXegony said:

    prongbuck said:

    Good point about the cross-server matching, I had forgotten that was a thing. Player reputation is very important, my assumption was Pantheon was going to work as EQ1 did, you pick a server, make a character, and thats where that character lived (outside of server moves which were added later).

    That being said, I wouldn't want to see any type of "official" reputation attached to characters, i.e. a player rating attached to a character that showed up in the lfg window.

     

     

    No pretty sure your "rep" would be accumulated like it was in vanilla EQ...ninja looter..not a team player, afk during group fight..amongst your peers.   If you're not a team player, word of mouth would get around.   No official tag...you work with your group or you don't ..and slowly get less invites to play.   So you are personally responsible for your own rep.    That's how it was..that's how it should be.

     

    Yup, Your rep was everything in game

    • 578 posts
    July 25, 2016 9:35 PM PDT

    I really don't see a need for any sort of fancy LFG tool. Just click on /lfg and when you are trying to fill your group open up the lfg UI tab and pick from the players who are lfg.

    Cross-server groups and insta-port to dungeon/other players features are deal breakers for me. I want to be in control and I want to build the group organically.

    • 200 posts
    August 8, 2016 1:36 AM PDT

    Kelem said:

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/content/forums/topic/2369/group-finding-utility  this is what I could find, I remember we had talked about this a while back, took a minute to find it

    I had planned to respond to this but then went on holiday. It was still nagging me tho as I can't read that topic and am very curious. Would anyone mind giving the consensus found (if there was any :D) in that thread? It may be a huge thread and a pain to do that, in that case never mind haha :).

    • 2756 posts
    August 8, 2016 1:54 AM PDT

    I agree that automation and insta-port features are bad, but there's got to be an alternative to travelling to a dungeon and spamming LFG :^/

    In EQ P99 it was crazy.  People would sit at the zone in and spam /ooc and not even have their lfg flag on.  Well, noone used the lafg tool, so why bother I guess.  BECAUSE NOONE WILL USE IT IF YOU DON'T BOTHER GAH!

    So, there needs to be a tool good enough so people actually use it in preference to sitting on their arse spamming LFG, *but* once you've used it to find people, you should have to actually contact them and talk to them to invite them.  You should have to agree a meeting point (that you could publish in the tool to save time) and travel to it.

    I'd like a window where you can specify: -

    Level range
    Target monster/item/quest
    Target zone
    Meeting place
    Time to play
    Freetext comments

    Being able to save criteria would be good - there's often a regular set of desires. You might save one set for "doing epic" and one for "wanting XP" and one for "new zone I want to explore" etc.

    The tool shows you matches - let's you sort and filter and then you click on people to start a /tell or /whisper or whatever (maybe with a standard /tell PlayerX You match me in the LFG tool)

    • 147 posts
    August 9, 2016 12:13 PM PDT

    I liked /lfg would list players in your zone, then you would /tell them.

    Less is more sometimes

     

    • 40 posts
    August 9, 2016 12:33 PM PDT

    Personally I am not that much impressed by the standard LFG tools most games have. I would prefer a physical place (like a huge tavern) where people who want groups go. Maybe you sit at a table and can write in what you want your group to do, and other people in the tavern see that as a text over the table or something. Feels more RPG and you can check out the group occulary before joining.

    The advantage is that you get a more D&D like experience when playing instead of the usual game lobby feeling LFG tools tend to have.

    • 5 posts
    August 9, 2016 12:40 PM PDT

    NoobieDoo said:

    I really don't see a need for any sort of fancy LFG tool. Just click on /lfg and when you are trying to fill your group open up the lfg UI tab and pick from the players who are lfg.

    Cross-server groups and insta-port to dungeon/other players features are deal breakers for me. I want to be in control and I want to build the group organically.

    This is exactly how I feel but I wanted to stress the UI part. No /lfg who all command line stuff. It can be there but should not be the only way to search for people that are LFG. This is the 21st century after all.

    • 793 posts
    August 9, 2016 1:14 PM PDT

    loke666 said:

    Personally I am not that much impressed by the standard LFG tools most games have. I would prefer a physical place (like a huge tavern) where people who want groups go. Maybe you sit at a table and can write in what you want your group to do, and other people in the tavern see that as a text over the table or something. Feels more RPG and you can check out the group occulary before joining.

    The advantage is that you get a more D&D like experience when playing instead of the usual game lobby feeling LFG tools tend to have.

     

    Problem with forcing people to go to a tavern to find groups is that many will not make that journey and just start using chat channels, which is what we are all trying to avoid. I know for myself, chat is becoming cumbersome and difficult to follow in newer games with thousands on a server, unlike the early EQ1 days where 800 was a busy night (Remember when they actually listed the number of players online, not just a low/med/high flag? :) )

    I like some of the suggestions here, especially about additional fields to narrow down your interests. So I could be riding the boat from FP to BB to head to unrest and put in the LFG window that I'm looking for a group in Unrest my ETA to Unrest is 20 minutes. And a group looking for people could see that and be like "Hey this guy is perfect, he can be here in 20 minutes. That gives Johnny time to run back to town to get clean underwear". 

    As with others, I don't like the insta-group and auto-port options in many LFG tools. It should be merely a listing and search/filter tool to aid in group finding.

     


    This post was edited by Fulton at August 9, 2016 1:14 PM PDT