The devs have explained that they are aiming to exclude macros from the game. Not all macros but they are not allowing the use of macros to bind skills together to have one button that uses multiple spells and abilities. Designing the game to not allow macros in this manner shouldn't be hard at all.
What I'm wondering is if special keyboards and mice will be able to macro abilities? Kilsin, I don't know if you (or another dev) can answer this or if one of the community members who is familiar with these devices can answer it. I'm not asking with hopes of using these devices to macro I'm just wondering because I know the intent of the devs is to not allow macroing except for smaller more simpler tasks and features, possibly more on the lines of macroing 'INCOMING' calls and the like. I'm just curious how things work and am wondering if there is a way to deny G15 devices their macroing ability.
I can't imagine denying a G15 keyboard would be easy
I am not a computer guy but i work in robotics, So i might be misunderstanding how things like this work.
THe G15 is Telling your keyboard to send a signal (which you define) to your computer, your computer then sends that signal to the game notifying it you are doing whatever. How could the Game program know from what type of source that signal is coming? I use a G15 keyboard personally (i use it to so i can mouse click with my pinky), and I wouldn't be opposed outright to what you are saying, as long as i can still use the G6 button for a single individual mouse click (i abhorr using a mouse) or I can keybind the use whatever is infront of my face (like opening doors in EQ) to an actual keyboard button.
Mice wouldnt that be the same deal? How would the program know the X is coming from a mouse or keyboard?
(Granted someone who actually knows WTF stuff is and how it works can probably tell me why i am wrong, and maybe its easy lol)
NoobieDoo said:The devs have explained that they are aiming to exclude macros from the game. Not all macros but they are not allowing the use of macros to bind skills together to have one button that uses multiple spells and abilities. Designing the game to not allow macros in this manner shouldn't be hard at all.
What I'm wondering is if special keyboards and mice will be able to macro abilities? Kilsin, I don't know if you (or another dev) can answer this or if one of the community members who is familiar with these devices can answer it. I'm not asking with hopes of using these devices to macro I'm just wondering because I know the intent of the devs is to not allow macroing except for smaller more simpler tasks and features, possibly more on the lines of macroing 'INCOMING' calls and the like. I'm just curious how things work and am wondering if there is a way to deny G15 devices their macroing ability.
We will have macros like we used in EQ and VG, to /cast Spell IX and /say AE move back! or /shout TRAIN TO ZONE!!!!!111!!!! 1!@ etc. plus if you had any instant cast abilities or buffs or clickies or spells you could macro a couple together to get the instant one to fire off first and then a longer one on a cast timer but after that the chain would break so it wasn't too OP and obviously the devs would manage how many instant cast abilities were implemented but that is the basic level of macros that will be available in game, we are still discussing them though as it is a little early ;)
I strongly suspect it will mirror fairly closely 'original flavour EQ' pseudo macros or 'buttons'.
A button could fire off a limited number (4-5) of scripted lines, Eg
/gsay 'Mezzing %T - you break it, you buy it'
/cast spell 3 (where spell slot 3 has Mez loaded)
OR
/use ability ranged_weapon
/gsay Incomming %T so wizzies stop being AFK
which would allow Pantheon to ensure groups were able to talk to each other (one of their core tenets) while not allowing a bot to just fire off a set of pre-scripted actions or spells a yard long!
As for the question about devices - these can be allowed to only substitute for a (replaceble) command-key in your key-bindings. Thus you could set button#5 on your mouse to bind to your UI hot-button 6 which does something like those above. To avoid long scripts or strings being inputted, all Pantheon have to do is disable line delimiters from text input. Thus a CR is only possible once (the text parser stop reading at the first LFCR it encounters). Entering 5 commands in a single line would therefore only do the 1st action. This would be bypassed for the standard hot-keys by changing the effect of the button from a single 5-line concatenated string to a set of 5 1-line 'queued' commands. Details of how would depend on code structures, but suffice it to say it *is* possible to allow short-set instructions wihtout opening the game up to massive 20 page scripted commands fired off by a single mouse butrton. It *is* somethign to think carefully (and robustly) about though.
Evoras said:I strongly suspect it will mirror fairly closely 'original flavour EQ' pseudo macros or 'buttons'.
A button could fire off a limited number (4-5) of scripted lines, Eg
/gsay 'Mezzing %T - you break it, you buy it'
/cast spell 3 (where spell slot 3 has Mez loaded)
OR
/use ability ranged_weapon
/gsay Incomming %T so wizzies stop being AFK
which would allow Pantheon to ensure groups were able to talk to each other (one of their core tenets) while not allowing a bot to just fire off a set of pre-scripted actions or spells a yard long!
As for the question about devices - these can be allowed to only substitute for a (replaceble) command-key in your key-bindings. Thus you could set button#5 on your mouse to bind to your UI hot-button 6 which does something like those above. To avoid long scripts or strings being inputted, all Pantheon have to do is disable line delimiters from text input. Thus a CR is only possible once (the text parser stop reading at the first LFCR it encounters). Entering 5 commands in a single line would therefore only do the 1st action. This would be bypassed for the standard hot-keys by changing the effect of the button from a single 5-line concatenated string to a set of 5 1-line 'queued' commands. Details of how would depend on code structures, but suffice it to say it *is* possible to allow short-set instructions wihtout opening the game up to massive 20 page scripted commands fired off by a single mouse butrton. It *is* somethign to think carefully (and robustly) about though.
I just posted that it would be like EQ/VG above your post lol, which were identical except for a few minor tweaks but it is too early to go into further details as only slash commands are in game currently, not macros.
Evoras said:Bleargh!
... that will teach me to refresh the page before posting a reply to a thread hehe!
(Though for some reason i don't recall ever setting up buttons in VG as I used to in EQ ... perhaps I am getting old!)
Haha, no worries my friend :)
In VG you just right clicked an empty hotbar ability square and wrote your own /command to turn it into a button or you could use custom UIs who created small/medium windows or custom buttons like in my screenshot below (just inside bottom right corner the double row of buttons) you could also give your macro an icon to make it look like an ability but I don;t have an example of it in this screenshot, I do in others but you get the idea. (this was taken in VGOEmulator with no abilities or spells set up just my UI in a rough layout)
Right click and "Open image in new tab" to get the best quality and full screen size.
Kilsin said:We will have macros like we used in EQ and VG, to /cast Spell IX and /say AE move back! or /shout TRAIN TO ZONE!!!!!111!!!! 1!@ etc. plus if you had any instant cast abilities or buffs or clickies or spells you could macro a couple together to get the instant one to fire off first and then a longer one on a cast timer but after that the chain would break so it wasn't too OP and obviously the devs would manage how many instant cast abilities were implemented but that is the basic level of macros that will be available in game, we are still discussing them though as it is a little early ;)
I like it.
Kumu said:I think this is the first button/macro you need to create Kilsin =>
/tell aradune psst - uh - oopsie, I did it again
/gsay train incoming, scatter or splatter
/backstab; /backstab; /backstab; backstab
/em flips hoody up and disappears without a trace
/crushdreams
I am copy/pasting this for later, thanks Kumu lol ;)
This area is where hacking will enter the game. Being able to spoof data to the server on location, speed of movement, etc. and the servers ability to identify legit movements and data input from fake/hacked macros/programs will be important.
Most functionalities like casting has a global cool down, so using a macro to cast something 20 times a second does not a lot, but what it does is load up the server with hundreds and thousands of unecessary RPC's to deal with. It also has the benefit of letting you cast/recast that spell the instant the global cooldown is over. No loss of efficiency.
Programatically the servers might be coded to ignore keystrokes coming any faster than say 1 every 200ms, or 5/second, which seems high actually. But something like that.
Obviously getting that heal off as quick as possible in rapid fashion is very important, so a repeating macro will be very beneficial.
Transitioning from the most effective attack to the 2nd most effective attack will return the highest possible DPS. Again, a repeating macro can do this.
In old EQ IIRC you could out maneuver mobs by moving diagonally and in irregular angles. A movement macro could make this easy.
And finally, using macro's allows us older slower typers keep up with the younger, twitchier kids playing these days. :)
Kilsin said:Kumu said:I think this is the first button/macro you need to create Kilsin =>
/tell aradune psst - uh - oopsie, I did it again
/gsay train incoming, scatter or splatter
/backstab; /backstab; /backstab; backstab
/em flips hoody up and disappears without a trace
/crushdreams
I am copy/pasting this for later, thanks Kumu lol ;)
Kilsin I am so glad someone is saving this for later!, I laughed way to hard at this!.
Kilsin I think I have finally chosen my Class just from this post XD
LeonSanborn said:Kilsin said:Kumu said:I think this is the first button/macro you need to create Kilsin =>
/tell aradune psst - uh - oopsie, I did it again
/gsay train incoming, scatter or splatter
/backstab; /backstab; /backstab; backstab
/em flips hoody up and disappears without a trace
/crushdreams
I am copy/pasting this for later, thanks Kumu lol ;)
Kilsin I am so glad someone is saving this for later!, I laughed way to hard at this!.
Kilsin I think I have finally chosen my Class just from this post XD
Haha, I can't wait to try it out in-game ;)
zewtastic said:This area is where hacking will enter the game. Being able to spoof data to the server on location, speed of movement, etc. and the servers ability to identify legit movements and data input from fake/hacked macros/programs will be important.
Most functionalities like casting has a global cool down, so using a macro to cast something 20 times a second does not a lot, but what it does is load up the server with hundreds and thousands of unecessary RPC's to deal with. It also has the benefit of letting you cast/recast that spell the instant the global cooldown is over. No loss of efficiency.
Programatically the servers might be coded to ignore keystrokes coming any faster than say 1 every 200ms, or 5/second, which seems high actually. But something like that.
Obviously getting that heal off as quick as possible in rapid fashion is very important, so a repeating macro will be very beneficial.
Transitioning from the most effective attack to the 2nd most effective attack will return the highest possible DPS. Again, a repeating macro can do this.
In old EQ IIRC you could out maneuver mobs by moving diagonally and in irregular angles. A movement macro could make this easy.
And finally, using macro's allows us older slower typers keep up with the younger, twitchier kids playing these days. :)
If the social system is like EQ i don't think so. The social system was pretty harmless, it didn't allow you to do full automation, you were bound to 5 commands, with 5 pauses. The folks that ended up making minor automation for say boxing and such were slower/less efficient than an actually alt tabbed box. It also didn't cover movement and had no functionality resembling an If/Than statement.
Hacking will come into the game the same way it does in every game: Some smart/enterprising folks are going to make programs that can fully automate characters, and then they are going to disseminate the code on the internet for money.
But socials themselves nah, thats not going to be a primary method for automation. It just frankly never had the juice/efficiency for that.
a little off topic here but Kilsin the forums have died! with only a little breath left, what is happening!
Kilsin said:NoobieDoo said:We will have macros like we used in EQ and VG, to /cast Spell IX and /say AE move back! or /shout TRAIN TO ZONE!!!!!111!!!! 1!@ etc. plus if you had any instant cast abilities or buffs or clickies or spells you could macro a couple together to get the instant one to fire off first and then a longer one on a cast timer but after that the chain would break so it wasn't too OP and obviously the devs would manage how many instant cast abilities were implemented but that is the basic level of macros that will be available in game, we are still discussing them though as it is a little early ;)
10.5 Will players be able to make ‘macros’?
There will be plenty of / (slash) commands that players can assign to hot keys. Likewise, the GUI will be customizable. However, players will not be able to create hotkeys that automate playing their character nor chain a long list of commands together
So will you be able to make macros like
/cast "fist of celerity"
/cast "jin Surge VI"
/cast "QJ"
/cast "crescent kick"
/cast "racial: blah blah"
/cast "secrets of Transcendence II"
/reactioncounter 4
/reactionchain 5
/reactioncounter 6
or will they more restrictive?
Has it been revealed if we can expect reaction abilities like VG had for crit chains, defensive/counterspells and rescues? Those I preferred to simple-macro with my 1-3 key abilities for ease of use ;p
Gragorie said:10.5 Will players be able to make ‘macros’?
There will be plenty of / (slash) commands that players can assign to hot keys. Likewise, the GUI will be customizable. However, players will not be able to create hotkeys that automate playing their character nor chain a long list of commands together
So will you be able to make macros like
/cast "fist of celerity"
/cast "jin Surge VI"
/cast "QJ"
/cast "crescent kick"
/cast "racial: blah blah"
/cast "secrets of Transcendence II"
/reactioncounter 4
/reactionchain 5
/reactioncounter 6or will they more restrictive?
I think the team has decided to restrict long chain casting commands like that mate and just allow small singular ones instead. We will have to test it out first of course and see how it handles in-game.
philo said:So I guess gaining exp while afk will be a thing then? Like it was in EQ. I was hoping macros would be much, MUCH more severely restricted than what is listed here.
That is not an afk macro, 5 of those abilities were instant casts, which they have stated might be allowed to be macro'd. 3 others were chains that went off only if you crit. Only 1 of those abilities was an attack.
I just sent off my money for one of these.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dKSPy4HbEk
So when i get a txt from the devs saying WTF, WRU? behind the keyboard? ill be like preprogrammed.
:)