I gathered the information from the 2 latest livestreams for the Wizard and Enchanter spellbooks.
I think it would be nice to have some feedbacks from players or developers to see how each spell/skill could improve in the spellbook. As it looks to me, it seems as there are an additional tier which include 3 slots under each spells. My guess are that these would have some sort of upgrades for each spell. Maybe improve each spell with a extra dot, more damage, shorter cast, longer range, etc..
Also i'm wondering how the spell would improve. Either just by leveling, epic quests, skillponts or similar? Would each spell grow stronger by each level. Take a level 1 damagespell. It would be useless on higher levels if it not scaled with each level. I also think that they given a lot of spells very early. Is this just for the sake of the livestream, or will they keep giving us same amount of spells as we level?
Any thoughts?
XXX
If you can upgrade spells, I Hope it is difficult to do so which makes each upgrade feel meaningful. It could take months of dungeons, quests, crafting etc to get 1 spell upgraded. I have been hyped up before on being able to upgrade things in past mmos and it turns out to be something incredibly simple where the whole playerbase has completed it in 1 month of release. At that point it might has well been baseline. I'm hoping for something with much more longevity and impact.
Thank you for doing this. Its nice to get a look into the design of the spell system. Which from this meager sampling reminds me very much of EQ's approach with some additions.
I see possible spell caster arc type abilities? IE: INT casters get an abilty with no level requirment and it is somehow upgradable. Could WIS casters get another type?
I also see that spell replacment is another upgrade path. You can see how Shelter of Frail Energies is replaced by Shelter of Weak Energies
It is nice to see that enchanters are getting a mana dump ability, I always wondered why the necro in EQ would get this. Finally something to do after you've tashed/slowed the boss mob. Give mana to your healers :).
On a side note, I do hope you can buy spells in scroll form and cary them with you. I miss doing that somehow.
Please keep in mind that these are very early dev examples and some of these have just been implemented to show an example of what they may look like and what they may do, it is way to early to be dissecting them and breaking them down, I know you folks love doing it and you do it well but I want to save you some time on this one before you waste your time dissecting something that most likely will change. ;)
I am impressed that you put them all together from the stream, though, nice job! :)
I'd rather refrain from getting a spell upgraded, and learn a new spell entirely; although, I know with the idea of the living codex, I'm sure the current spell will be augmented in some sort of way. Maybe it would be a base Fireball, but you could augment it with a learned skill/spell from a mob. However, I don't want to see the recycled spells such as Fireball 1, Fireball 2 every 3-4 levels. It wouldn't be too hard to reach for the old Thesaurus and make some creative names.
As far as the how to learn new spells, I think the proposed methodology so far is good - trainer/quests/drops/learning from mobs (blue mage style?).
I enjoyed the EQ style...buy your spells and carry them when you were near the next level, and most spells had a linear progression and completely new stuff appeared every so often, and there was some overlap, like cleric spells that paladins got later etc. I also DEFINITELY want to see rare special spells that are quested, dropped, found etc. Stuff like epic spell quests, the collection quest for the paladin spell in EQ with the bones (despite NUMEROUS attempts I NEVER got the damn Kedge Keep bone), ultra rare drops, etc. I like seeing spell diversity...not to the point where a certain drop or quested spell becomes a make or break for a class...that is not fun. A system where it definitely adds and enhances the class though, like better gear would.
When I saw these videos for the first time, in particular the Enchanter one, I wondered... Why aren't they using Hush? If they have a Lull, it would be awesome to show it on a multi-mob pull..
Maybe they wanted to show off reactive CC instead of proactive CC? /shrug
I was also surprised that the Enchanter had more DoT's and AE than the wizard, while the wizard seemed to have several redundant cold/fire direct damage abilities. They have mentioned the ability to dynamically adjust spells to be AE or single-target, though, so maybe that's a yet-to-be-shown thing for Wizards?
Otherwise, Enchanter is pretty OP at the moment, comparatively. :) I mean, unless the mana cost on these is all really tiny for a wizard or something. Class envy in pre-pre-alpha, you know it!
"Class envy in pre-pre-alpha, you know it!" love this-- There is something really special about this too that I think speaks to the larger goals of Pantheon.
EQ had 16 classes? Daoc had 45? (like 15/16 per realm) WoW has 12? When I was playing DAoC I remember going through a very familiar emotional roller coaster over and over again as I would play the game and learn more about all the abilties and roles of the different classes. But it was never a measure of numerical impact. It wasn't DPS, it was things like pusling blade turns and huge aoe mezzes, and you when you would see this happen for the first time and really save a team from wiping or just totally enable a group to push into harder areas- you'd be like 'wo, this class is actually really bad ass'.
Now, in WoW, the mythos of the support toon is around enabling your dps, there isn't that extra layer of magic where they are actually disrupting the fabric of the game. The heroic image of any classes in modern mmos games is almost now entirely dependent on numerical output and cosmetics. It doesn't come clsoe to the satisfaction of seeing some derpy looking mentalist throwing out amnesia and saving the whole team. So in this way, DAoC and 'class envy' was just about what was cool, in the way it might happen on tabletop DnD, and spoke to the diversity in abilities and roles that a class could do--- something very far away from the mathmatics of dps and and the glamour of huge shoulder pads.
zedicus said:"Class envy in pre-pre-alpha, you know it!" love this-- There is something really special about this too that I think speaks to the larger goals of Pantheon.
EQ had 16 classes? Daoc had 45? (like 15/16 per realm) WoW has 12? When I was playing DAoC I remember going through a very familiar emotional roller coaster over and over again as I would play the game and learn more about all the abilties and roles of the different classes. But it was never a measure of numerical impact. It wasn't DPS, it was things like pusling blade turns and huge aoe mezzes, and you when you would see this happen for the first time and really save a team from wiping or just totally enable a group to push into harder areas- you'd be like 'wo, this class is actually really bad ass'.
Now, in WoW, the mythos of the support toon is around enabling your dps, there isn't that extra layer of magic where they are actually disrupting the fabric of the game. The heroic image of any classes in modern mmos games is almost now entirely dependent on numerical output and cosmetics. It doesn't come clsoe to the satisfaction of seeing some derpy looking mentalist throwing out amnesia and saving the whole team. So in this way, DAoC and 'class envy' was just about what was cool, in the way it might happen on tabletop DnD, and spoke to the diversity in abilities and roles that a class could do--- something very far away from the mathmatics of dps and and the glamour of huge shoulder pads.
Yes, yes, yes i agree with you i believe CC should be a very important thing in Pantheon whether its from an Enchanter Mezzing target or AoE stunning to a Druid/other rooting classes rooting there target in place outside of combat to midigate damage to the tank, there had to be something to enforce this abolutely,
If i can run in on a mob and accidently pull all 4 and be like well i guess this only makes it faster, than be like oh crap Enchanter mez that target, druid switch to heals to help my cleric buddy out, enchanter start AoE stunning the other mobs, druid switch to heals on Enchanter when losing health and switch back to me when your done, ok targets are mezzed Focus Fire on My target please, ok hes dead like kill the one fighting my healer, than the other too. This is fun and believe me that just returned of fun moments of my EQ life in LGuk lol, that place was such a pain without an enchanter or some form of a mezzer.
Kobrashade said:If you can upgrade spells, I Hope it is difficult to do so which makes each upgrade feel meaningful. It could take months of dungeons, quests, crafting etc to get 1 spell upgraded. I have been hyped up before on being able to upgrade things in past mmos and it turns out to be something incredibly simple where the whole playerbase has completed it in 1 month of release. At that point it might has well been baseline. I'm hoping for something with much more longevity and impact.
Now, in WoW, the mythos of the support toon is around enabling your dps, there isn't that extra layer of magic where they are actually disrupting the fabric of the game. The heroic image of any classes in modern mmos games is almost now entirely dependent on numerical output and cosmetics. It doesn't come clsoe to the satisfaction of seeing some derpy looking mentalist throwing out amnesia and saving the whole team. So in this way, DAoC and 'class envy' was just about what was cool, in the way it might happen on tabletop DnD, and spoke to the diversity in abilities and roles that a class could do--- something very far away from the mathmatics of dps and and the glamour of huge shoulder pads.