Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

Quick Switch for Gear –

    • 281 posts
    August 8, 2017 6:17 PM PDT

    I'm okay with being able to store your gear sets for easy switching but switch should not be instant nor allowed while in a combat state.

    In general, it seems that Fluffy wants a game that I would stay miles from.  Fortunately, I think things will work out differently.  I don't think anyone that is looking forward to a game like Panteon wants some sort of instant switch mid battle to maximize stats.  But if the game is going to require situational gear, I should have to go digging through bags to find that item when I need it.  The Old School feel doesn't have to include the boring bits. 

    • 2130 posts
    August 8, 2017 7:24 PM PDT

    Just depends on how the game works.

    If swapping gear in combat can lead to some form of exploitation, then disable the ability to do that. Whether or not a fast swap is included has nothing to do with that.

    The idea that risk vs. reward and all of these other buzzwords about the old days means that every single interaction with the game has to feel awful, like a clunky ass user interface that takes a million interactions to navigate, is pretty irritating.


    This post was edited by Liav at August 8, 2017 7:24 PM PDT
    • 1095 posts
    August 8, 2017 7:49 PM PDT

    Gear is like part of the character, it should be close to real life as possible because if we can just rotate gear easily it defeats the purpose of the encounters.

    Mind as well let us change races on a whim. (sarcasm)

    So after typing that I think I am for this:  you leave the bank with what you got in your bags and deal with it.

    #pantheondealwithit


    This post was edited by Aich at August 8, 2017 7:51 PM PDT
    • 769 posts
    August 9, 2017 10:11 AM PDT

    I want them to make it a pain in the caboose to switch gear, so it isn't done willy-nilly.

    Give us slight animations with a timing bar as well, showing us do a slow sensual strip tease every time.

    Giggity.

    • 2752 posts
    August 9, 2017 11:00 AM PDT

    The only in-combat gear swapping I would support would be weapons. Even then I would only support it if there was a secondary weapon slot in the character so you have a choice between two sets in the event that maybe an add shows up that is highly resistant to what you have equipped, so you can keep a sword in one set and a mace in a second set.

     

    Personally I hope needing to keep lots of different situational gear on you isn't going to be a very big thing in this game and that you can just reasonably plan on taking the set of gear you need before leaving he bank/heading out. 

    • 1921 posts
    August 9, 2017 11:27 AM PDT

    If you DON'T allow complete gear swapping in combat, but you DO require it by changing the counter dynamically, that boils down to exactly one word:

     

    Frustration

     

    Now, if you DO allow complete gear swapping in combat, and you DO require it by changing the counter dynamically, that becomes a wide variety of potential including:

     

    Innovative, fun, challenging, completionist, achievement, reactionary, etc.

    --

    Many games permit weapon swapping in combat, instantly, due to changes in damage resistances and susceptibility in targets for scripted encounters, or simply a variety of enemies.   Skeletons are vulnerable to crushing.  Unarmored humans are vulnerable to piercing.  Rogue swaps from mace for skeletons to dagger for humans.  The encounter is one or many human necromancers summoning skeletons.

    Now, if you don't allow the rogue to switch in combat, he's going to be less effective against one of those enemies.  He has the gear.  He wants to switch, but the game mechanics prevent him.  That's frustrating, and designing your game to be frustrating will simply limit your target demographic.  Which is fine, if you don't have additional limits that reduce your target demographic below the point at which your game is profitable.

    When designing a game, decisions like these are massive and far reaching, affecting all aspects of combat and encounter design, as well as NPC "gear", resistances, and susceptibilities, PC buffs & debuffs, blesses, curses, etc..  As far as I can tell, as of August 9th, 2017, this aspect of combat design is not addressed or mentioned in the FAQ, so the public has absolutely no idea which way Visionary Realms is going to go on this particular decision, outside of dev quotes which may or may not still be accurate.

     

    • 3237 posts
    August 9, 2017 11:35 AM PDT
    If we could swap gear while in combat, I imagine tanks carrying a bunch of resistance sets, setting them up with macros, and swapping stuff midnight to mitigate different attacks. It would definitely add another layer of strategy and timing to combat. I think most people would find it annoyi g but I would be happy to play around with something like that.
    • 18 posts
    • 3237 posts
    August 9, 2017 12:45 PM PDT
    I agree with you Lentik. I don't think single players should be able to down end game raid bosses (Even if they are older content) but if someone has enough situational Gear, has invested deeply into progeny, and has the timing/coordination of combat mechanics down to a science, I think it's great that solo players can do incredible things. I will be playing a warrior and I am pretty sure I will never be able to solo like I could on my paladin/ninja in FFXI ... but you never know. Progeny, colored mana, situational gear ... I hope these features are deep enough to allow the most dedicated of players to perform magnificent feats.
    • 2752 posts
    August 9, 2017 2:14 PM PDT

    I would very much prefer to not play an RPG where instead of equipping your character with items specifically for an event/raid/encounter as a whole or for a decided strategy, you carry massive amounts of armor to swap in for split-seconds via macros. The Archmagus is about to hit the party with lightning cascade? Okay everyone hit your lightning or magic-resist set macro...cool now hit your other macro to put your normal set back on...oh, weapon skill about to be off cooldown, swap to glass cannon DPS set real fast before hitting the ability then go back to regular set.  


    It being expected for players to lug around absurd amounts of equipment just to macro-swap for a split-second over and over so each and every ability/spell's potency is maximized? Count me out.  

     

    I want an RPG where you plan ahead for an encounter the best you can with your group/raid and try to make the best compromises with what gear you wear into it. Boss does a mix of lightning and poison damage with a splash of wind? Choose wisely. DPS learn to skirt the line between defense/resist stat armor and heavy DPS gear, or tanks or healers and their stats. 

    • 3237 posts
    August 9, 2017 2:40 PM PDT

    I can live with it either way but any area where I can take advantage of a system/mechanic that requires extra coordination or progression, I approve.  Not everybody cares to min-max and hopefully encounters won't "require" it for them to be defeated ... but if it grants an edge to those who are willing to go the extra length, I'm good with that.  That said, I don't mind a system where I have to choose in advance and make compromises.  It sounds like that's how our spell/ability kits will work due to having limited hotbars. 

    • 125 posts
    August 9, 2017 3:10 PM PDT

    I hope once engaged in combat that will be it. As it stands that seems to be what will happen with spells and I would hope it is the same with gear. Plan ahead before engaging and that's it hopefully.

    • 281 posts
    August 9, 2017 6:31 PM PDT

    I really hope it is prepare before you go and not hot-swap mid battle.  Aside from the laughable mental picture of a knight switching armour plating and underwear during a fight, it is isn't a mechanic that I wan to be dealing with.  I might have occurred in other games and more power to them.  Just simply is not my cup of tea.

    • 18 posts
    August 9, 2017 10:50 PM PDT
    Btw it must not nessecarily gear to swap, some kind of magic runes for our gear will do it possible to. It is the idea behind the mechanics ... which way it will be implement doesnt matter.
    • 3237 posts
    August 10, 2017 3:08 PM PDT

    Good point Lentik.  It's kind of like a variation of switching "stances" in combat.  Whether it's runes, gear, stances, or something else ... I like all of it.

    • 323 posts
    August 10, 2017 8:47 PM PDT

    I don't mind stance switching. That can add a fun dimension to combat. But like many of you I'm in the camp of not wanting to see fast-swap gear changing in combat. The absurdity of it is too much for me. I can change my entire suit of armor in less time than it takes me to take a single swing with my sword? I can suspend my disbelief for most things but that's a big ask. 

     

    I think Dullahan got this one right a couple years ago in this thread. Fast-swap hotkeys are fine as a way to reduce mindless/cumbersome clicking. But there should be a delay/queue for putting on items to prevent the constant switching of gear in the middle of combat. Or no gear changing in combat except weapons. Or both. 

     

    • 281 posts
    August 10, 2017 9:04 PM PDT

    Gnog said:

    I don't mind stance switching. That can add a fun dimension to combat. But like many of you I'm in the camp of not wanting to see fast-swap gear changing in combat. The absurdity of it is too much for me. I can change my entire suit of armor in less time than it takes me to take a single swing with my sword? I can suspend my disbelief for most things but that's a big ask. 

     

    I think Dullahan got this one right a couple years ago in this thread. Fast-swap hotkeys are fine as a way to reduce mindless/cumbersome clicking. But there should be a delay/queue for putting on items to prevent the constant switching of gear in the middle of combat. Or no gear changing in combat except weapons. Or both. 

     



    Agreed.

    • 1399 posts
    August 11, 2017 5:34 AM PDT

    Switching a Weapon in the middle of combat I could see. I would think it need be done in a way that coulden't be exployted (bypassing a cool down or something)

    But clothes or other gear, thats going too far. I think here immersion and accuracy should win out...

    Sword to an Axe.. ok but it cost him a swing. 

    he want's to change his paints... cost him 20+ swings as he hops arround with one leg in and one leg out while the mob beat's on him.

    • 793 posts
    August 11, 2017 6:17 AM PDT

    Agree with the other that say "Instant" switching should not be allowed, at least in combat.

    I don't care is someone switches gear mid-combat, but there needs to be a delay in it. You don't want tank using his best high damage 2 handed weapon, and as soon as he hits he switches to a shield for the incoming MOB attack, then back, thoughout an entire fight.

    How long of a delay in switching is up to the devs, if it's a total regardless of how much you swap out, or if it is per item.

     


    This post was edited by Fulton at August 11, 2017 6:17 AM PDT
    • 626 posts
    August 11, 2017 8:28 AM PDT

    Having some gear in your bag to switch to during a dungeon or raid is one thing, but switching during combat is a whole nothing thing. I would much rather prefer you have to work as a team vs have one person do it all. One tank in Frost resist and one tank in Fire... Then them work off each other to counter spells from a raid boss. I would feel like it would be boring to just have one tank switching gear the whole fight, or if you did your healer would have to know big heals during one phase vs the other due to the gear being used. Reguardless I'm not going to be upset if switching gear like this during combat is allowed, but for me I would prefer it not be. 

    • 18 posts
    August 11, 2017 9:08 AM PDT

    Gnog said: That can add a fun dimension to combat ...

     

    I want to remember the point, that it must not nessecarily be gear to swap, there are other things (like runes or whatever) possible to implement such a feature. The point is, i can understand all the people they dont like swapping gear because of the unrealistic touch. BUT: like Gnog said, you will get a realy good dimension to the combat if there will be a mechanics like this! You dont have to use it in the beginning of your character progression, but you can later in end game use it if you want to optimize your spells, fight and your character performance, you can use it to modify your fighting behavior for every spell in dependency of weather, mob characteristics and so on - it should be more than the normal degrees of freedom we knowing from other games right!? I want to repeat my note again: it was in FFXI while combating for shure a complicated playing experience and only a advanced player could handle it right and smooth, but for hardcore playing it was one of the most fun thing which made the combat feels like a deep meditation in a small or in a big group (and yes, not only EQ matters, the old FFXI was a fantastic, maybe one of the best game out there and if pantheon want to bring the old times back, it will be better to not ignore that fantastic game mechanics). It was realy more than all the other games to only click a button and cast a spell, it was realy innovative, a science to play and im shure the development team knows what i mean ... so please think about that things for pantheon and im shure all the EQ players will like it too, if they stay open for innovative thinkings.

    • 626 posts
    August 11, 2017 9:53 AM PDT

    lentik said:

    Gnog said: That can add a fun dimension to combat ...

     

    I want to remember the point, that it must not nessecarily be gear to swap, there are other things (like runes or whatever) possible to implement such a feature. The point is, i can understand all the people they dont like swapping gear because of the unrealistic touch. BUT: like Gnog said, you will get a realy good dimension to the combat if there will be a mechanics like this! You dont have to use it in the beginning of your character progression, but you can later in end game use it if you want to optimize your spells, fight and your character performance, you can use it to modify your fighting behavior for every spell in dependency of weather, mob characteristics and so on - it should be more than the normal degrees of freedom we knowing from other games right!? I want to repeat my note again: it was in FFXI while combating for shure a complicated playing experience and only a advanced player could handle it right and smooth, but for hardcore playing it was one of the most fun thing which made the combat feels like a deep meditation in a small or in a big group (and yes, not only EQ matters, the old FFXI was a fantastic, maybe one of the best game out there and if pantheon want to bring the old times back, it will be better to not ignore that fantastic game mechanics). It was realy more than all the other games to only click a button and cast a spell, it was realy innovative, a science to play and im shure the development team knows what i mean ... so please think about that things for pantheon and im shure all the EQ players will like it too, if they stay open for innovative thinkings.

     

    Not sure I would consider changing gear in a fight good nor fun IMO, and as for FFXI being as good as EQ... I mean let's be honest. EQ was the best... :)

     

    Also I hate the focus that is being put on the gear here. Instead why not leave the gear out of this conversation, and focus on us being able to quick pick Acclimation options. What if I was able to make a macro to change my acclimation to help better resist phases or spells during an encounter. That would be more interesting to me then having to carry tons of gear around all the time. 

     

     

    Acclimation

    • A way to respond to the challenges of harsh environments.

    • Infusions are injected into different parts of your body to acclimate your character.

    • Climates are based on a Tier system, from 1 to 5.

    • Lower tiers are fairly attainable

    • Higher tiers come from raiding and epic style quests.

    • Infusions last through death until you remove them, but you can apply them again using the Acclimation window.

    • Crafters will be able to play a role in producing some.

    • Can mix and match Acclimation types.

    • There can be multiple harsh environment combinations. Examples:

      • Volcano Crater: Scorching/Toxic

      • Mountain Peaks: Frigid/Windshear

      • Deep Underwater: Pressure/Anaerobic

     

     

    • 1778 posts
    August 11, 2017 10:31 AM PDT
    Im pretty sure they have already chosen a direction for these issues. I thought they confiirmed no gear swapping durring combat in favor of being prepared. That being said you could still bring different gear and switch in between encounters. So being able to easily swap gear would still be appreciated. It doesnt have to be instant either, just possible.

    As for FFXI being as good as EQ? That isnt correct. FFXI was much better LOL!
    • 184 posts
    August 11, 2017 11:29 AM PDT

    vjek said:

    If you DON'T allow complete gear swapping in combat, but you DO require it by changing the counter dynamically, that boils down to exactly one word:

     

    Frustration

     

    Now, if you DO allow complete gear swapping in combat, and you DO require it by changing the counter dynamically, that becomes a wide variety of potential including:

     

    Innovative, fun, challenging, completionist, achievement, reactionary, etc.

    --

     

    Finally, someone who gets it :)

     

    Absolutely agree with your post!!

     

    Rint

    • 281 posts
    August 11, 2017 11:56 AM PDT

    I don't mind stances, changing of other factors during combat for a more reative experience.  But changing one's armour (Weapons make sense, especailly with some delay) during combat a big fat "NO!"  And I'm glad VR isn't going that route.