Hello, I have a question when it comes to the way monsters attacks will work and they way we see them.
1) will there be circle (or whatever shape) on the ground showing where a monsters attack is exactly going to hit? (This has made mmo's attack very easy to maneuver around and extremely easy to dodge)
2) How far out are we going to be able to zoom our camera? In games like world of warcraft you can practically zoom out to see the entire battle field which is terrible because its not even a 3rd person game anymore its more like DOTA or LOL moba view.
I'm pretty sure I heard (on a podcast?) that there might be 'telegraphs' indicating the AoE of a monster effect. Certainly position should be important, but we don't want some 'twitch' aspect. I understand what you're saying about 'easy mode' and would completely understand if the devs made that very limited or decided it should be 'implied' in ways other than a glowing area on the ground.
I just read that post on the Saga of Lucimia site re. first person and there were some very interesting ideas. I do agree that zooming way way out is effectively not just a graphical thing, but changes the tactics and has an impact on gameplay. I don't agree that third-person is 'wrong' or 'easy-mode'. It serves a purpose and, to summarise from the other post, I like to see my character and I don't like the lack of situation awareness that a hard first-person view results in.
I would love the devs to give more detail on this ;)
I'd be happy with something that lets me see my 'toon' and effectively gives a little periferal vision.
Having said that, it depends how you balance/design content - Diablo-style isometric top-down doesn't exactly trivialise stuff just because you can see around corners *shrug*
Larirawiel said:I find such "telegraphs" annoying. Why should an enemy tell you where it will start a next attack? It would be silly to help someone who attacks me.
:) Hehe that's not really what it is, is it though. It's an analogue for your senses. It's a simulation of your combat awareness.
Even given the wonders of modern graphics and animation, quite often you are left wondering "what the heck just killed me?!" or "why is that monster spinning like a top hurting me 5 meters away?" especially with AoE damage.
You can't see it too well and you sure can't feel that poison cloud fizzing on your skin, but the telegraph tells you where it stops/starts hurting.
Sure some games turned it into some kinda Dance-Dance-Revolution, but it can maybe be done well?
Taledar said:Yeah in EQ you never knew so you were careful as hell at all times. in WoW or even final fantasy its like wellll look there ill just step out.
I'll have to hunt it down, but I recall seeing a post by a DEV indicating that there will not be any telegraphs. I could be wrong, bu tif I remember it had to do with highlighted circles on the ground for an AoE and they had said they were going to try an avoid this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27dgUc-auwI
doesn't the actual game play 2 hour video answer questions like this?
Not being rude, I just feel like many questions are already answered within the game play demo.
Medjai said:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=27dgUc-auwI
doesn't the actual game play 2 hour video answer questions like this?
Not being rude, I just feel like many questions are already answered within the game play demo.
I've watched that video about 10x already as I'm sure we all have.... But that doesn't mean anything as its not even alpha yet and they haven't added in a LOT LOT to the game.
I don't think there will be many situations where a telegraph system is necessary. Maybe certain abilities or spells in some high level fights, but if a mob is charging up a point blank or target based AE, or a dragon's breath type of thing, players should know where they should or should not stand and it should be up to them to pay attention enough to avoid such things. In the case of a dragon, you should know not to be in the direction its breathing fire. If a mob is casting some sort of meteor shower on the other hand, that might be an exception. It all depends how much "action combat" they want to involve in the game.
I think there will be many occasions where you aren't meant to easily avoid special area effects. In EQ for instance, you found safety out of range, behind cover, or you equipped particular items to enhance your resistances.
Thats the system I'd want to see.
disposalist said:I'm pretty sure I heard (on a podcast?) that there might be 'telegraphs' indicating the AoE of a monster effect. ...
That's not how I understood the telelgraphing. As far as I can recall, the telegraphing was for raid encounters, not for normal mobs in the game. Hopefully the developers stay away from red circles, etc. on the ground. I think the level of telegraphing everyone would be happy with would be if a caster starts waving his hands in a certain motion and the ground starts to shake in certain places or a dragon starts to rear his head back for his breath weapon attack, etc.
From a resource point of view, the graphic artists would need to do a lot of work but with raid encounters which are unique situations, there should be no cutting corners in these situations.
Raids can be very chaotic but the challenge is learning what the raid boss does, etc. over time and the satisfaction of taking it down ultimately. Hope it's not ruined by red circles, etc.
Yea, no to big red circles on the ground. Yes to being able to determine what *could* happen based off the Mob's movement and actions.
As for the POV, I'm one of those nutjobs that would like the devs to force everyone to play only in first person, and that you can only pan out to view your character when you're still and not in combat. But I know this won't happen. It's a dream, though.
-Tralyan
Joshue said:disposalist said:I'm pretty sure I heard (on a podcast?) that there might be 'telegraphs' indicating the AoE of a monster effect. ...
That's not how I understood the telelgraphing. As far as I can recall, the telegraphing was for raid encounters, not for normal mobs in the game. Hopefully the developers stay away from red circles, etc. on the ground. I think the level of telegraphing everyone would be happy with would be if a caster starts waving his hands in a certain motion and the ground starts to shake in certain places or a dragon starts to rear his head back for his breath weapon attack, etc.
From a resource point of view, the graphic artists would need to do a lot of work but with raid encounters which are unique situations, there should be no cutting corners in these situations.
Raids can be very chaotic but the challenge is learning what the raid boss does, etc. over time and the satisfaction of taking it down ultimately. Hope it's not ruined by red circles, etc.
I could be mistaken (been known to happen) but I think the "telegraphs" that were mentioned were simply text in the chat box such as 'So and so begins to cast a spell"....same thing they had in EQ. This is touted as an old school no hand holding back to basics mmo....I really dont think you have any worry about "easy mode" or red circles on the ground
Telegraphs should only be shown if there is no other way to predict the area. In other words if the boss is about to drop a Circle of Fire spell which can be cast anywhere on the map then yes, it should be shown as there needs to be some kind of way to give players a chance. Other than that, say for a large AoE swing, or cone attack? No. Those kinds of attacks should be learned, seen, and avoided by the player just by watching what the mob/boss does.
Dont really care about the zooming out. Honestly I dont like playing with the camera too far off my character but I dont care if others choose to. Nor do I see how it would contribute to "easy-mode." Its a non-issue IMO.
A text in a chat box is called "emote", telegraphs are colored lines or circles on the ground. In most cases telegraphs show where an enemy will start the next attack. Here a screenshot:
http://wildstar.gamepedia.com/Telegraph
Greetings
Larirawiel said:A text in a chat box is called "emote", telegraphs are colored lines or circles on the ground. In most cases telegraphs show where an enemy will start the next attack. Here a screenshot:
http://wildstar.gamepedia.com/Telegraph
Greetings
A telegraph is anything that foreshadows an npcs actions...be it an emote or animation (the wizard waves his hands).....Just because wildstar defines telegraphs as red circles doesnt mean everyone else does.
Vaildez said:I don't like telegraphing at all... If a Dragon is about to breathe fire..Get out of the way! I don't want to see some highlighted area where it's going to happen. It also forces you to create tactics to avoid some of this unpredictability by positioning better.
Damage taken from the dragons fire should also be more or less depending on if you are in the middle of it or just on the outside edge of it.
Well what if telegraphing was done differently? Live action type of operation. Let’s use a fire breathing dragon for an example. You engage in combat as foolish that sounds but you have to watch what the target is doing. Listening to it. Is it’s tail moving does it have one? Wings maybe. I would think a dragon has to inhale prior to unleashing its weapon of choice. It could be looking right at you. You can either get out of the way, soil yourself or attack! The question is what would you do? How do you decide? Those are ques that can be put into the system. Would a circle on the ground be a bad idea? Yes! It would break immersion. Great big arrows showing the dragon may belch fire in that direction is not at all fun. This ends up working for those that love the key mashing and such. Telegraphing is not the best way to describe mob behavior. With current AI structures one could setup a possible 5 to 6 behavior models per mob. Randomly cycle them so the mobs activity is not predictable. It would make encounters far more tense and would challenge players.
Way too many game now have the types of systems to “assist” players. It is also called dumbing down or leveling the playing population based on skill level. My example of a dragon fight should be a terrifying experience. So many things can go wrong and one should not be allowed to waltz up and start thumping on one by following circles or an endless array of “hints” to finish it off. It’s a little insulting to the dragon to be honest. Not to mention us as players.
Ox is stepping off the soap box…
