Forums » General Pantheon Discussion

32 vs 64 Bit Game Client

    • 1281 posts
    April 4, 2016 3:01 PM PDT

    The recent Steam hardware survey that came out and showed 85% of users had a 64 bit Windows operating system. While Steam hardware survey isn't the end-all-be-all, I still think it's a good gauage that the majority of people that will be playing Pantheon are on a 64 bit OS. Even during Windows 7 era, Windows 7 64 bit outsold 32 bit.

    From a resource/performance perspective is it worth it to even bother with a 32 bit client, or should devleopment be more wide open, and less restrictions with 64 bit only client?

     


    This post was edited by bigdogchris at April 4, 2016 3:03 PM PDT
    • 563 posts
    April 4, 2016 7:56 PM PDT

    I wonder how many people with 32bit windows just didn't understand and installed it on a 64bit system. It boggles my mind that anyone would actually still be running a 32bit system for gaming :O

    • 59 posts
    April 4, 2016 10:31 PM PDT

    I was a strange one and ran Windows XP 64bit.  Havn't looked back to 32bit since then. :)

    • 801 posts
    April 5, 2016 4:44 AM PDT

    32 bit is more for business apps. I use it all the time when you can not run 64 bit. Recommended today at 64 bit.

     

    Now guys it wasnt too long ago everything was 32 bit, because we did not have enough software that was being developed with 64 bit. So we had no choice.

    Then it was optional to have 64 bit. Even vista was mostly 32 bit, then migrates into 32 bit for windows 7 because many did not have the options to look towards 64 bit.

    Today things are different and 64 bit is moving more towards new apps such as sage acc pac, quickbooks, etc... only older software does not run well in a emulated way.

     

    Then you have your techs that ask people, are you running any old apps that require 32 bit? etc... the answer is yes usually.

    I have been doing this a very long time, and i find since some of the dos based programs run on windows 7 32 bit, it is not an easy thing. Nothing is the same anymore.

    • 793 posts
    April 5, 2016 5:03 AM PDT

    Windows 7 (The Windows OS I consider really started pushing 64 bit) Was released in late 2009.

    Now neary 7 years later, anyone into gaming, has had almost no choice but to upgrade their PC in some form or other. There would only be a select few into this type of gaming that would not be knowledgable enough to understand the need to upgrade to 64-bit. 

    I mean from a 32-bit RAM limit standpoint alone, any serious gamer would have made the upgrade.

     

     

    • 200 posts
    April 5, 2016 5:25 AM PDT

    Zathris said:

    I was a strange one and ran Windows XP 64bit.  Havn't looked back to 32bit since then. :)

    The main problem with XP 64 was that XP 64 is a dumbed down Windows Server 2003. Many application recognized it as a Windows Server 2003 and refused to start with a "Buy the professional version"-message. :)

     

    Greetings

    • 148 posts
    April 5, 2016 6:03 AM PDT

    I've been using 64bit OS since Vista, and see no reason not to have a 64bit client version. As long as the variables are decalared properly then compiling to 32bit and 64bit is a non issue. However keep in mind that the benefit of a 64bit application is the increased memory pool, and a 3d application (game) will benefit from increased VRAM more so than system ram. Ideally you want no texture swapping between vram and system ram. The remaining game functions will benefit from the system ram, but how much it will need depends on how well optimized the application is. 

    • 1468 posts
    April 5, 2016 6:51 AM PDT

    jimm0thy said:

    I've been using 64bit OS since Vista, and see no reason not to have a 64bit client version. As long as the variables are decalared properly then compiling to 32bit and 64bit is a non issue. However keep in mind that the benefit of a 64bit application is the increased memory pool, and a 3d application (game) will benefit from increased VRAM more so than system ram. Ideally you want no texture swapping between vram and system ram. The remaining game functions will benefit from the system ram, but how much it will need depends on how well optimized the application is. 

    Don't forget that 64 bit applications have access to more CPU registers than 32 bit applications which may increase performance slightly as well. Plus all 64 bit CPUs have SSE 2 which would also help to accelerate certain tasks that the CPU carries out. But yeah if you have a 64 bit OS you really need a minimum of 8GBs of system RAM to really take advantage of the fact that you are running a 64 bit OS.

    With GPUs coming out with up to 12GBs of VRAM Windows really needs to be 64 bit to address the extra graphics card RAM. Anyone running 32 bit Windows with a modern GPU is massively missing out on the performance that their PC is capable of.

    • 671 posts
    April 5, 2016 8:37 AM PDT

    bigdogchris said:

    The recent Steam hardware survey that came out and showed 85% of users had a 64 bit Windows operating system. While Steam hardware survey isn't the end-all-be-all, I still think it's a good gauage that the majority of people that will be playing Pantheon are on a 64 bit OS. Even during Windows 7 era, Windows 7 64 bit outsold 32 bit.

    From a resource/performance perspective is it worth it to even bother with a 32 bit client, or should devleopment be more wide open, and less restrictions with 64 bit only client?

     

     

    Correct, there is no reason to worry about 32bit anything.

     

    Secondly, Visionary Realms is using Unity engine and need not worry about the actual Client.

    Additionally, I do not believe Steam is indicitive of Pantheon players... whom are typically much older and are established in their careers. Budget game malls, like steam..  are for those who skirt around the issue of cost, or price and instead choose to rent, or lease their games through budget malls, etc to reduce their cost.

     

     

     

    • 116 posts
    April 5, 2016 10:39 AM PDT

    Hieromonk said:

    Additionally, I do not believe Steam is indicitive of Pantheon players... whom are typically much older and are established in their careers. Budget game malls, like steam..  are for those who skirt around the issue of cost, or price and instead choose to rent, or lease their games through budget malls, etc to reduce their cost.

     

    Non-sense. Being older and with "an established career" doesn't mean someone is less likely to use Steam. It's a nice platform for digital distribution and to organize one's collection of games, even when paid at full price on release day.

    • 1468 posts
    April 5, 2016 11:28 AM PDT

    Mekada said:

    Hieromonk said:

    Additionally, I do not believe Steam is indicitive of Pantheon players... whom are typically much older and are established in their careers. Budget game malls, like steam..  are for those who skirt around the issue of cost, or price and instead choose to rent, or lease their games through budget malls, etc to reduce their cost.

    Non-sense. Being older and with "an established career" doesn't mean someone is less likely to use Steam. It's a nice platform for digital distribution and to organize one's collection of games, even when paid at full price on release day.

    Agreed. I've been using Steam since 2004 and have over 150 games in my collection. Frankly I find it annoying when games are not released on Steam as I have to deal with other platforms or ways of managing games. Steam takes most of the hassle away from having to use DVDs or other digital distribution platforms. So when I do a clean install of Windows I know all I need to install is the Steam client and BAM I have all my games available to be installed straight away without any hassle or having to root around for DVDs to install the game from.

    • 793 posts
    April 5, 2016 11:43 AM PDT

    Cromulent said:

    Mekada said:

    Hieromonk said:

    Additionally, I do not believe Steam is indicitive of Pantheon players... whom are typically much older and are established in their careers. Budget game malls, like steam..  are for those who skirt around the issue of cost, or price and instead choose to rent, or lease their games through budget malls, etc to reduce their cost.

    Non-sense. Being older and with "an established career" doesn't mean someone is less likely to use Steam. It's a nice platform for digital distribution and to organize one's collection of games, even when paid at full price on release day.

    Agreed. I've been using Steam since 2004 and have over 150 games in my collection. Frankly I find it annoying when games are not released on Steam as I have to deal with other platforms or ways of managing games. Steam takes most of the hassle away from having to use DVDs or other digital distribution platforms. So when I do a clean install of Windows I know all I need to install is the Steam client and BAM I have all my games available to be installed straight away without any hassle or having to root around for DVDs to install the game from.

     

    Agreed, I have even setup some of my non-steam games in my steamlibrary just so I have a single place to launch the majority of my games. And as others and you have said, when rebuilding or reinstalling an OS, it saves a alot of trouble. 

    Not to mention the games you can get at a good discount if you keep your eye out.

     

     

    • 57 posts
    April 5, 2016 11:51 AM PDT

    Not to mention the ability to move saved games back and forth betwen multiple computers... for those of us 'with established careers' who are frequently on the road for lengths of time.  It is very handy to pick up a save point on my laptop in the hotel and then when I get back to my home office to fire up the Alienware (to play at a much higher graphics level than the laptop).

    • 556 posts
    April 5, 2016 12:25 PM PDT

    DaveBowers said:

    Alienware

    /Shudders ...

    Overpriced Dell. So not worth the cost of them. Next time you plan to buy one ask the forums for help. Alienware is not worth the money spent. For the same price you could have probably gotten a lot more with better parts.

    • 57 posts
    April 5, 2016 1:15 PM PDT

    Enitzu said:

    DaveBowers said:

    Alienware

    /Shudders ...

    Overpriced Dell. So not worth the cost of them. Next time you plan to buy one ask the forums for help. Alienware is not worth the money spent. For the same price you could have probably gotten a lot more with better parts.

    To each their own.  Yes I could have gotten a better value for the money if I had wanted to spend the time, but with a corporate discount and tons of overtime I wasn't worried too much about it (to be perfectly honest).

    • VR Staff
    • 587 posts
    April 5, 2016 3:16 PM PDT

    Currently we build 64bit clients and servers.  We can build a 32bit client, but I'm not sure about memory restrictions, so we may or may not have a 32bit client at launch.

    • 9115 posts
    April 5, 2016 5:43 PM PDT

    Hieromonk said:

    bigdogchris said:

    The recent Steam hardware survey that came out and showed 85% of users had a 64 bit Windows operating system. While Steam hardware survey isn't the end-all-be-all, I still think it's a good gauage that the majority of people that will be playing Pantheon are on a 64 bit OS. Even during Windows 7 era, Windows 7 64 bit outsold 32 bit.

    From a resource/performance perspective is it worth it to even bother with a 32 bit client, or should devleopment be more wide open, and less restrictions with 64 bit only client?

     

    Additionally, I do not believe Steam is indicitive of Pantheon players... whom are typically much older and are established in their careers. Budget game malls, like steam..  are for those who skirt around the issue of cost, or price and instead choose to rent, or lease their games through budget malls, etc to reduce their cost.

    I am unsure where you got this opinion of Steam but it couldn't be further from the truth, the typical age of a PC gamer is on average 37 years old, Steam is a games platform that many people use, including myself, and have done for a very long time, the mentality and age bracket of any given community is dependant on the game, so there is a wide mix of age groups and gamers on Steam, if Pantheon was released on Steam then not only would it be great for us to get a wider reach but it would also group like minded players together and include other mature gamers who are interested in games like EQ/VG/Pantheon.

    There is even a Pantheon Steam fan group - http://steamcommunity.com/groups/pantheonroft

    Just because Steam has big sales a few times a year doesn;t make them "a budget mall" by any means, for the rest of the time the games are full price just like anywhere else.


    This post was edited by VR-Mod1 at April 7, 2016 3:04 AM PDT
    • 1778 posts
    April 5, 2016 6:54 PM PDT

    I know this wasnt your point Kilsin, but I just had to jump in and say please dont make me use steam. If you guys have to then I suppose Ill just have to deal. But I do hope if you guys do that you eventually have a non-steam launcher. I wont get into the boring details, but I have yet to not have a problem with steam games. But if I just directly buy a game thats on steam I have no issues. And this has followed me across to PC builds and 4 windows operating systems.

     

    • 7 posts
    April 6, 2016 7:24 PM PDT

    My apologies if this has been addressed before, but this seemed like a good place to ask. Is there any plans to support Linux or Mac? I do have a single, dedicated Windows box strictly for gaming, but would prefer to run it on my Linux box.

    • 9115 posts
    April 6, 2016 9:02 PM PDT

    Amsai said:

    I know this wasnt your point Kilsin, but I just had to jump in and say please dont make me use steam. If you guys have to then I suppose Ill just have to deal. But I do hope if you guys do that you eventually have a non-steam launcher. I wont get into the boring details, but I have yet to not have a problem with steam games. But if I just directly buy a game thats on steam I have no issues. And this has followed me across to PC builds and 4 windows operating systems.

     

    Why would we force Steam onto you? Not sure where you got that from Amsai, we have always said we will have our own client, Steam is just a very good possibility for us. :)

    • 9115 posts
    April 6, 2016 9:03 PM PDT

    TheCleric said:

    My apologies if this has been addressed before, but this seemed like a good place to ask. Is there any plans to support Linux or Mac? I do have a single, dedicated Windows box strictly for gaming, but would prefer to run it on my Linux box.

    You will find the answer to that and many more questions in our FAQ my friend :)

    https://www.pantheonmmo.com/game/faqs/#q39

    Our community actually asked most of these questions in a big Q&A document I put out a while ago and we continue to update it regularly, so be sure to check it out!


    This post was edited by VR-Mod1 at April 7, 2016 3:06 AM PDT
    • 1778 posts
    April 6, 2016 9:13 PM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Amsai said:

    I know this wasnt your point Kilsin, but I just had to jump in and say please dont make me use steam. If you guys have to then I suppose Ill just have to deal. But I do hope if you guys do that you eventually have a non-steam launcher. I wont get into the boring details, but I have yet to not have a problem with steam games. But if I just directly buy a game thats on steam I have no issues. And this has followed me across to PC builds and 4 windows operating systems.

     

    Why would we force Steam onto you? Not sure where you got that from Amsai, we have always said we will have our own client, Steam is just a very good possibility for us. :)

    I dont know, it just seemed like a possibility. I mean it would probably be easier and helpful in a lot of ways. And there are some games Ive wanted to play in the past (mostly indie) where the only choice was steam. But Im glad to hear I dont need to worry about it. Thanks for that assurance.

    • 128 posts
    April 6, 2016 11:53 PM PDT

    I see zero reasons to use several decades old tech.

     

    If someone stills runs a 32bit system, they could not run Pantheon anyways. No matter if it had a 32bit client or not. And people that refuse to upgrade to 64bit are not the target audience, since pantheon does not cater to silly people ;-) 

    • 9115 posts
    April 7, 2016 3:08 AM PDT

    Amsai said:

    Kilsin said:

    Amsai said:

    I know this wasnt your point Kilsin, but I just had to jump in and say please dont make me use steam. If you guys have to then I suppose Ill just have to deal. But I do hope if you guys do that you eventually have a non-steam launcher. I wont get into the boring details, but I have yet to not have a problem with steam games. But if I just directly buy a game thats on steam I have no issues. And this has followed me across to PC builds and 4 windows operating systems.

     

    Why would we force Steam onto you? Not sure where you got that from Amsai, we have always said we will have our own client, Steam is just a very good possibility for us. :)

    I dont know, it just seemed like a possibility. I mean it would probably be easier and helpful in a lot of ways. And there are some games Ive wanted to play in the past (mostly indie) where the only choice was steam. But Im glad to hear I dont need to worry about it. Thanks for that assurance.

    Having our own client/launcher is much easier for us to manage with updates etc. Steam is extra hassle but it is worth it for the extra reach and potential in target audience we would receive, plus it would help fill the game with like-minded players, which is a win for the community too and when Steam has its big sales, people could pick it up if they were unable to afford it the first time around but we would never force you to use Steam :)

    • 103 posts
    April 7, 2016 5:20 AM PDT

    Kilsin said:

    Having our own client/launcher is much easier for us to manage with updates etc. Steam is extra hassle but it is worth it for the extra reach and potential in target audience we would receive, plus it would help fill the game with like-minded players, which is a win for the community too and when Steam has its big sales, people could pick it up if they were unable to afford it the first time around but we would never force you to use Steam :)

    Oh thank you! Proud to say ive been able to avoid Steam up to now and dont plan on every changing that. Not only do I hate DRM but that goes double for those that just take my information as if theyre entitled to it. Personally thats why im a huge fan of GOG.com for just that reason. I dont know what the specifics are for getting Pantheon on their store but id love to see it there as well and would definitely buy it from them if possible (and I havent pledged by release). They focus on a lot on indie and older PC games including many classic RPGs, so Pantheon would be a perfect fit IMO.


    This post was edited by Kayo at April 7, 2016 5:32 AM PDT