I think the game should not have any maps, mini maps or quest markers icons of any type. If a NPC has a quest you should have to interact to find out then you should have to READ what to do and where to go then FIGURE it out.
Playing games for the past few years I have tired of blindly following an arrow to the next destination and running with my map open only to miss the world.
Anyone else agree?
yup, thats how old eq was but it did have maps. fog of war which i agree with. if you have actually ran across a zone why wouldnt you know where things are? i know im getting older and cant remember things like i used to so i dont think it would be unfair to have a map. you could even allow ppl to have maps with pins you can write notes on so you know what is where in the zone. again i dont have a problem with that. what i hate is the porting with books(not druids/wizzies), yellow brick roads, arrows pointing at npcs saying you have a quest with them. sort of ruins any sort of immersion.
I actually think that Pantheon should have mapping. With a twist.
Mapping or Carteography should be a skill that everyone (or almost everyone) has access to, the skill is toggleable and when toggled on consumes paper, and ink to produce a map item that the player can then use for his own personal benefit, so long as he carries it with him. Higher skill levels means more resolution and/or accuracy. If we want to get really crazy at higher skill levels you could potentially allow for duplication of zone maps to sell to other players.
What about being able to buy a hand drawn map from a local npc or cartographer? No arrow showing where you are on the map, no ! in existence, just a map with the ability to draw on it in game, add notes, etc. Similar to using an EQAtlas type site with player made maps, but a bit more modern.
Hell i would like it if the map was incomplete, and not available in some zones, maybe the cartographer couldn't or wouldn't go explore. That would make a good quest, help the cartographer make a map.
Gurt said:I actually think that Pantheon should have mapping. With a twist.
Mapping or Carteography should be a skill that everyone (or almost everyone) has access to, the skill is toggleable and when toggled on consumes paper, and ink to produce a map item that the player can then use for his own personal benefit, so long as he carries it with him. Higher skill levels means more resolution and/or accuracy. If we want to get really crazy at higher skill levels you could potentially allow for duplication of zone maps to sell to other players.
I like this also, just no !! Or arrows or any indicator of where on that map you currently stand. ;)
I also am of the thought that the only map if any should be one created by players with maybe a cartography skill. I hate detailed maps that make it super easy to navigate. I also think that you should not be able to move while looking at the map, and it should not have any form of character indicator.
Maybe a low level cartography skill is very limited as to what gets put in the map, distorted proportions, a higher skill makes a more detailed map with town/village names, major landmarks but still nothing too detailed.
Maybe the most detail we can get is something along the lines of this (middle earth map :P) but for single zones, world/continental maps may need a master cartography skill.
Rachael
I like the idea of the cartographer skill. That could work as players would be forced to skill up in order to get a map and would also need to explore the world first in order to map it. That would remove the big problem I have with maps which is that they make the world seem more mundane and boring because everything has already been explored for you. I do think a compass is essential though and that should absolutely be in the game.
"Cartography skill", now thats a great idea.
We all know that within a matter of weeks maps will be available on google for all to see so not having them in my opinion will be pointless.
However having a skill like cartography that enables you to uncover/unshrouded areas you have already passed through is not a bad idea.
Possibly once you enter an area and explore it then it becomes visable to a degree, then the more you use that same zone the more the map reveals itself in detail sort of like in layers, every time you come back and explore your cartography skill enhances some and a newer top layer with more detail can emerge. We all used the True North spell that had to be skilled up otherwise you had no idea what way you were facing at start.
I really don't care how they do it, but there should be some sort of compass, some sort of /loc command that would allow player mapping. Look, I'm pretty good with directions, but a map is a pretty damn handy thing to have. If I was going out adventuring, you bet your @ss that I'd have some kind of map of the area before I headed out. I doesn't need to be fancy or extremely detailed, and it can use fog of war, but I would like to know, at least relationally, where the zone entrances/exits are in relation to my current zone - without looking at the Pantheon Atlas site (which we will all pull up on our other screen if there isn't a map in-game). Why make that outside site necessary?
A map is OK, as long as it is earned or purchased, but it should NOT be an overlay(One that is transparent as you run around, with a little marker shoing your direction and location), but a map you open, and as with any paper map, North is always at top, it should up to you to know which way is north once you close your map.
TBH this really doesn't matter to me. Whether there are maps in game or not, there will be full maps online before beta is over. That you can bet on. So people running around blind won't really ever happen. This isn't 99 anymore and people have access to all the information they need for games by the time betas are over now a days. Pantheon planning a much longer than normal beta will have even more info available.
Not having a map of any kind seems pointlessly frustrating. It doesn't add to realism... maps are obtainable in real life, and I imagine most of us would purchase them if available or do our best to make rudimentary maps of our own when venturing into the unknown.
I can definitely get behind the idea of a cartography skill... that could be a really interesting system, though it might be challenging on the devs' end. I'm not sure how they would approach it at the low levels where presumably maps would have a fairly low degree of accuracy. I also think that most areas should have purchasable maps, which I remember from FFXI... I thought that was a rather nice approach as well. If there's a cartography system, then you'd have the option of either buying or making your own... except for extremely remote/dangerous areas, where perhaps there are no maps available for sale. Or maybe make map-making an entire player-based system, and high level cartographers can sell off the maps they've made.
Agree 100%
Sense Heading skill you have to work up to get accurate - loc command and let the community do the rest. Stop trying to do EVERYTHING for the player base - no auto group finders - no auction house - let the people come up with solutions for these issues in game and out. PS More resources out of game is more advertising for people to know/play the game.
xtnpd said:I really don't care how they do it, but there should be some sort of compass, some sort of /loc command that would allow player mapping. Look, I'm pretty good with directions, but a map is a pretty damn handy thing to have. If I was going out adventuring, you bet your @ss that I'd have some kind of map of the area before I headed out. I doesn't need to be fancy or extremely detailed, and it can use fog of war, but I would like to know, at least relationally, where the zone entrances/exits are in relation to my current zone - without looking at the Pantheon Atlas site (which we will all pull up on our other screen if there isn't a map in-game). Why make that outside site necessary?
What if the area you were exploring was never explored? What if the maps were super expensive and you couldn't afford them? :)
@Mapping or Carteography - This sounds like a neat idea, however I would guess that it would only be useful for the first few people that use it/train it/level it whatever. The reason I say this is due to the fact that as soon as the maps are done people will most likely post them online and then the skill will be near useless.
@OP I would agree I would like not to see any form of a map in game. A sense heading skill is about all I would like to go exploring.
Niien said:@OP I would agree I would like not to see any form of a map in game. A sense heading skill is about all I would like to go exploring.
Since we saw a compass in game during the Twitch stream I think it is pretty much 100% that everyone will have a compass rather than a sense heading skill unless they decide to remove it which I find unlikely.
Enitzu said:TBH this really doesn't matter to me. Whether there are maps in game or not, there will be full maps online before beta is over. That you can bet on. So people running around blind won't really ever happen. This isn't 99 anymore and people have access to all the information they need for games by the time betas are over now a days. Pantheon planning a much longer than normal beta will have even more info available.
People mapped EQ and it still didn't change the fact that you could get lost, especially in dungeons. Having an map explicitly tell you where you are in a zone is exactly the kind of thing that will ruin the "EQ magic" this game is trying to capture.
Camarginy said:"Cartography skill", now thats a great idea.
We all know that within a matter of weeks maps will be available on google for all to see so not having them in my opinion will be pointless.
However having a skill like cartography that enables you to uncover/unshrouded areas you have already passed through is not a bad idea.
Possibly once you enter an area and explore it then it becomes visable to a degree, then the more you use that same zone the more the map reveals itself in detail sort of like in layers, every time you come back and explore your cartography skill enhances some and a newer top layer with more detail can emerge. We all used the True North spell that had to be skilled up otherwise you had no idea what way you were facing at start.
That is actually a really cool idea. I love it.
Krixus said:Enitzu said:TBH this really doesn't matter to me. Whether there are maps in game or not, there will be full maps online before beta is over. That you can bet on. So people running around blind won't really ever happen. This isn't 99 anymore and people have access to all the information they need for games by the time betas are over now a days. Pantheon planning a much longer than normal beta will have even more info available.
People mapped EQ and it still didn't change the fact that you could get lost, especially in dungeons. Having an map explicitly tell you where you are in a zone is exactly the kind of thing that will ruin the "EQ magic" this game is trying to capture.
Early EQ sure you could. But all I ever had to do was /loc and look at the map. I was never lost for more than a few minutes at most. Later on they added cartography which meant within weeks people had all the in game maps mapped out and downloadable to be used in game. Expecting that something similar won't happen here would be expecting disappointment.
The only way maps won't be in game is if there are no maps in game at all. Otherwise everyone will have them for launch. At least on any zones available during beta
When i first played EQ i was a mage in gfay. I was running around looking for orcs I could solo and I can remember running into the outside of Crushbone for the first time. There were no maps so for the several days before i had absolutely no idea CB even existed even though i was actually not very far away. I was blown away and distinctly remeber thinking "i wonder how many more hidden things are in this forest". Now if I was given a map on day one with CB already listed i would never have had that memerable moment of discovery.
Second is that maps make a zone feel smaller. I always thought zones could go on forever until i physically fond its border. Onces maps where added I instantly new what was in the zone and how big it was. It also reminded me that we play in a square zone not a real world.
As for the map making skill. I laugh because this is exactly how EQ1 maps are. You open the map and for most zones its just a blank slate. You can draw your own lines and add your own named pins and everything. It was very cool at the start. I spent allot of time trying to build my own maps. But very quickly you could get them online and add them to your map folder and that was the end of building maps for me. Why spend hours building a map when in 5 minutes you could have every map in the game pre drawn.