Forums » The Enchanter

What I loved (and didn't) about being an Enchanter

    • 1459 posts
    August 19, 2019 10:09 PM PDT

    I hope you are right.  That is a possibility that we see more alternative ruleset servers on release than has been talked about but I'm doubtful.

    The "official" quotes we have gotten at this point suggest that we are most likely to get the standard PvP/rp servers on release and more alternative ruleset servers may be added post release.

    Here is a quote from brad responding to a post I made about alternative ruleset servers a few years back:

    ...launch a game with a compelling world, plenty of content, people to group with and get to know, and then to experiment with 'variations on the theme', both at launch with the obvious themes (PvP, RP, etc.) and then post-launch to keep heading down that road, offering more and more variety and options.   Lastly, we hope that as the game evolves down this path that these Realm variations will not only help us dial in a game that feels more tailored for YOU but that it also brings in more people, new people, people who might not be looking as hard at Pantheon right now because we're focusing on PvE group content.  The goal is that after launch we offer both more variants

    To be honest I don't expect us to get many extras on release considering the time development is taking.  If anything I expect us to be getting much less than what was advertised originally.


    This post was edited by philo at August 19, 2019 10:15 PM PDT
    • 393 posts
    August 20, 2019 10:24 AM PDT

    Well, in this case, ruleset servers aren't difficult to implement. This isn't really a massive content creation requiring development time by any means.

    • 1459 posts
    August 20, 2019 11:28 AM PDT
    Ya, I think its more about them testing the waters, managing server populations etc before they offer to much variety of rulesets.

    But I'm with you. If they were going to offer another ruleset besides the standard PvP/RP this should probably be the one.

    Though another issue is then VR has to have the staffing to regulate the servers where boxing would not be allowed. I'm guessing VR doesn't have that kind of man power.


    Also, at this point I don't think they can afford to stretch out the development time even a little.
    • 393 posts
    August 22, 2019 5:38 AM PDT

    philo said:Though another issue is then VR has to have the staffing to regulate the servers where boxing would not be allowed. I'm guessing VR doesn't have that kind of man power

    The processes wouldn't be dependent on much if any manpower and would be through a phased approach to eliminate the numbers by volume with a 97% or greater prevention or preventative outcome.

    This is the public methodology as the private list is of course left private for obvious reasons. However, as said above and with regard to the link below, this is about dealing with volume, not an absolutist approach. The fear of losing a player's character/characters or accounts will be very real for any who decide to break the rules. That level of deterence works very well.

    https://docs.google.com/document/d/17zFHaTHvWE3J5e7YRFt13zTnqS7uRgJ2oa_fCpdTrg8/edit?usp=sharing

    • 1459 posts
    August 22, 2019 8:08 AM PDT

    I don't see how that solves anything? VR still doesn't have the man power to regulate those type of servers. VR has always come from the stance of boxing being something that they are not going to try to regulate. I doubt that mindset changes enough that they decide to hire extra team members to police non-boxing servers on release. (Though I would definitely play on that server). Maybe the responses to the recent poll change that? It's wishful thinking.

    There won't be a volunteer guide program like there was in EQ.  That has been discussed as an outdated system that comes with to much liability.  They can't afford to give volunteers that much power.  I'm hoping they can utilize volunteers in other ways even if they essentially can't do much.


    This post was edited by philo at August 22, 2019 8:10 AM PDT
    • 393 posts
    August 26, 2019 4:07 PM PDT

    The process I detailed wouldn't require extra manpower. The private form which is far more intrusive does however and that I haven't shared with them yet. Also, there's overwhelming disinterest and even disgust at the notion of the allowance of boxing as per the three posts in question on these forums to include a more recent one, the tweet asking for public feedback/response and the 3rd most heavily upvoted post in the history of Pantheon's subreddit. 

    https://www.reddit.com/r/PantheonMMO/comments/a4mae5/multiboxing_is_antithetical_to_the_spirit_of_mmos/

    It will have a very deleterious effect on the population and the players at large if it's allowed because of how unruly it becomes and how it allows for instances of buff bots making entire segments of classes like Druids and Shamans more useless. When you can bring a pocket Druid or Shaman for buffs and main a Cleric, you unfairly disenfranchise people who play those two classes as their mains. I gathered they're concerned about it for respective reasons but we're still a while out before they decide on server rulesets which includes types of PvE and PvP servers.

    I gather you're the type who is likely to benefit from allowing boxing, if i'm wrong, I apologize, but you have to take this into consideration and at least entertain the idea and even prepare if they decide to officiate their policy with this in addition when they unveil their RoE. It's still new, so any positions are taken with a grain of salt, otherwise they wouldn't be fielding the public interest, the vast majority of whom seem to be vehemently against boxing.

    "There won't be a volunteer guide program like there was in EQ."

    The process wouldn't require a guide program. It would help, but it's not required as Phase 6 is fairly malleable.

    • 1459 posts
    August 26, 2019 5:56 PM PDT

    Are you understanding what I am presenting?  

    I gather you're the type who is likely to benefit from allowing boxing

    I've stated multiple times I would prefer to play on a no boxing server but have also presented multiple examples of why VR likely won't offer that on release.  Those are the statements we have received...straight from the horses mouth so to speak.

     It's still new, so any positions are taken with a grain of salt, otherwise they wouldn't be fielding the public interest, the vast majority of whom seem to be vehemently against boxing.

    This is not new.  This is a years old discussion.  You are just new to being active on the forum.  I even quoted a discussion in this thread that was years old that Brad responded to directly about ruleset servers. VR has made their stance on boxing clear.

    Kilsin asks open ended questions to the community to pass the time.  You are putting to much weight on these forum questions.  

     The private form which is far more intrusive does however and that I haven't shared with them yet.

    Kilsin has stated many times that we are years past the point where they are accepting ideas for systems that could change the game.  We are in the balance/tweaking/testing/polishing stages.

    I would love for them to have a server that doesn't allow boxing but you seem to not understand the current state of the game.  Don't get your hopes up that any new ideas presented at this point might come to fruition.  We have been told many times that would have had to have happened years ago.

    VR has been telling us they are going to update the FAQ for a long time.  That being said, here is a quote on multiboxing:

    10.4 Will multi-boxing be allowed in Pantheon?

    Our reaction to multi-boxing is to try something first before we even entertain the idea of artificially restricting it. We want to make combat, especially mid and higher level combat, so tactically intense, with so much going on, so much to do, so much to counter, so many companions to keep alive and the timing of many abilities crucial, that multi-boxing is extremely difficult if not impossible and likely far inferior to having an actual real person in your group.

    I would love for you to be right about no boxing servers, but if you are then we have been lied to...I'm not going to have that discussion here...


    This post was edited by philo at August 26, 2019 8:10 PM PDT
    • 2 posts
    October 19, 2019 8:01 PM PDT

    Ok, wife and I purchased this game; we meet on EQ and we still play it.  However, what happened in EQ to enchanters is my reservations for this game.

    In EQ, I played every class avaialbe to lvl 20.  I only played an enchnater after lvl 20.  Ironically, it was the last class I tried as I thought I would hate it.  After learning how to CC with different options according to group and player ability, I never wanted to play anything else.  I don't believe I was the best enchanter; I do believe I was sufficient.  There was a lot of pride in controlling a 20 mob pull in HoT, charming a minotaur in steam factory as a last resort to win a raid, or to stun cycle with fellow enchanters to hold the 8 raid mob pull steady for the kill (and no mez breaks).  

     

    I played the enchanter for all of the above reasons, but the one that always made it worth it:  the enchanter, when played well, could get almost any group through any situation in the game.   

     

    What made the enchanter absolutely terrible to play?  Unfortunately, the enchanter is a class capped in skill growth and abilities.  And when other guildmembers would get currently geared, the enchanter need would disappear.  Reducing the class to a buff bot in the guildhall and the occassional group amongst old friends that brought you in out of friendship, knowingly reducing the overall production of the group.

     

    When I learn to play the enchanter in Pantheon, I will worry that the game will be constantly changed to make sure the enchanter stays in a postioin of adps reducing it to a specialized class with few needs in game play and content.

    • 393 posts
    October 21, 2019 6:09 AM PDT

    "And when other guildmembers would get currently geared, the enchanter need would disappear.  Reducing the class to a buff bot in the guildhall and the occassional group amongst old friends that brought you in out of friendship, knowingly reducing the overall production of the group."

    This was certainly not my experience. You see, in terms of the raw DPS input by the Enchanter in group, you will exceed a single DPS due to both the passive DPS gain through Hastes, Melee buffs, Mana regens and damage adds like Mana Flare etc., as well as aiding the Healer and their mana increasing the efficiency of the group. That is done through your potent Melee Slows and CC which was still required through to Darkhollow in 2006 which is my final expansion.

    Then you have to also factor in your direct DPS which after AAs, through Dire Charm in Velious and Luclin content, you were more DPS than two to three DPS classes and were insanely overpowered. I'm sure some here recall for instance a dual wielding, hasted rogue spider in Velks Lab when farming AAs with a group and it doing quad 140s with a 380-405 damage backstab. There was also regular charm which when you factor your direct DPS and passive DPS, you contributed much more through all over content to the group.

    Then you consider the other roles you play. In some groups i was the puller and could single pull like mad due to how OP the pacify line was in PoP and beyond. 

    Overall, the class was simply more important than a linear DPS class but the issue there was that it generally didn't stack well. While adding a second Enchanter had a reduced effect, two DPS stacked. Example below.

    Four non-Healer and Tank spots in a Group...

    Group 1

    Enchanter = 130% group output DPS

    DPS 1 = 100% group output DPS

    DPS 2 = 100% group output DPS

    DPS 3 = 100% group output DPS

    Total DPS = 430%

    Group 2

    Enchanter 1 = 130% group output DPS

    Enchanter 2 = 80% group output DPS

    DPS 1 = 100% group output DPS

    DPS 2 = 100% group output DPS

    Total DPS = 410%

     

    This of course doesn't take into consideation the aid and drastic incrase in efficiency the Enchanter provides for the Healers, for pulling or for Utility.


    This post was edited by Janus at October 21, 2019 6:12 AM PDT
    • 2 posts
    October 21, 2019 5:35 PM PDT

    your potent Melee Slows and CC which was still required through to Darkhollow in 2006 which is my final expansion.

     

    Since you have not played in 13 years, you have no knowledge about the state of the enchanter in current content. 

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    • 393 posts
    October 22, 2019 8:52 AM PDT

    Ghinnus said:

    your potent Melee Slows and CC which was still required through to Darkhollow in 2006 which is my final expansion.

     

    Since you have not played in 13 years, you have no knowledge about the state of the enchanter in current content. 

     

    I don't think the vast majority of EQ players still play the mess that the live game is currently in now 20 years after releasing. This is why we won't typically refer to Everquest post Luclin when depicting the relationship to the mechanics in Pantheon.

    As for Pantheon, while the melee slows are reduced in potency, Enchanters have another debuff that works alongside it that reduces flat rate damage. On top of that you have spell casting slow which works alongside the melee slow in a single spell and even a long term silence. So the effectiveness of their support with regard to debilitating a target and thus drastically increasing the efficiency and capability of the healer is hugely important.


    This post was edited by Janus at October 22, 2019 8:58 AM PDT
    • 2 posts
    November 20, 2019 11:04 AM PST

    I'd have to mirror the utility aspect, and, of the leader role.  Knowing how game-mechanics work and how targets "behave" would always allow for a smooth pull, game-session, and career(?)...

    While we know changes to the game are inherently needed (to stem power-creep, to fix things that are broken)... but use of in-game mechanics to the extent of what's possible, whether it may have originally been intended or not (see them as exploits if you will), is what I've enjoyed most.

    IE, reference Everquest1:
    Pre-nerf Gravity Flux.  Use of this spell would launch the target and AOE targets, quite high into the air. If the target was already levitated (and assuming the spell wasn't resisted), it would be sent high into the air, and remain levitating. With this, characters could reach unintended locations quite easily (like, enering through the 'back door' to vox by self grav-fluxing up the tiered 1-way fall)... their fix, was to make it so anyone already levitated would sort of "bounce", at the elevation they already were, and not be cast into the air.
    The work-around became, having a second character time the cast of Levitate so that it would complete while the grav-fluxed target (character) was still in the air.
    Some time later, Grav-Flux was nerfed to where it no longer launched into the air at all.

    I could see how something like this could cause technical complications based on the limitation of the game-engine (IE, getting something 'stuck' in the geometry) - though I find that the less-likely reason for the nerf, and tend to expect it was to prevent exploits.

     

    Regarding crowd-control through Area-Effect Enthrall..  Some creatures could not be struck by the Mezmerization lines (like giants, and I've learnt that certain dragon-kin were also changed to be flagged as immune somewhere down the line);  I had learnt to use Wake of Tranquility (AOE Pacify), then Blanket of Forgetfulness (AOE Mind-blur) to a successfully hilarious result.. And further, with use of any of the Color-flux line of spells, a mass of mobs could be AOE-stunned, pacified, then mind-blurred....  and if successful, the unintended mobs would all walk away while the group remained in the center, fighting one or more of them.

    I look forward to what Pantheon has to offer!
    Let's leave the "that spell isn't meant to do that!" to the D&D p&p neck-beards.

    • 16 posts
    December 17, 2019 6:52 PM PST

    I enjoyed the illusions, being agnostic was definitely the way to go, allowing us to stroll into whatever city we wished. My true love of being an enchanter was, like so many others have mentioned, making order out of chaos. Good enchanters were tough to find, and when you got a reputation as a good one, people would line up to get you into their groups. Juggling adds, hell I'd even pull on occasion and line stuff up for the tank. All around challenging and fun, which could really add greatness to a group when properly executed!

    • 4 posts
    December 29, 2019 9:08 PM PST

    Keldaria said:

    Venjenz said:

    Best thing about EQ1 enchanting was a toolkit that showed off different levels of mastery by the player. An incredibly powerful toolkit that in the right hands was almost broken/OP.

    Every enchanter gave out crack (haste/clarity) and did the 2-3 mob mezz thing. Proper enchanters were the best pullers in the game and a huge source of DPS, without nukes. Plenty of folks believed monks and bards were puller kings, but enchanters came with a perfect skillset for optimal group exp efficiency. Rune up, give gnoll lariats and haste to sword/board floatie, pull with slow, dispel buffs, tash, silence, whatever. Name the mob, and enchanters alone had the perfect pulling spell for it. Pull 3-4 at once? LOL, whatever. Mezz two, charm one, take a hit and engage floatie pet. Now, the 6 man group has a CC plus 7 DPS.

    Increase the difficulty of the spawn/camp, all that does is make enchanters that much better at pulling and racking up xp. Derailing trains was fun and all that, but once I startd being a puller, I understood why enchanters were off the hook. It got easier when they added pet commands in PoP alternate advancement, but in Velious/Luclin era, when you still had to rune and take hits to get floatie to engage, enchanting was living on the edge.

    And reverse charm kiting might be the greatest "so you think you can nerf my class and stop me?" response by a player community maybe ever? That makes soloing a breakneck exciting experience.

    This sums up my thoughts as well. Enchanters were one of the few classes of the game where the difference between a good enchanter and a bad one was extremely wide and completely changed how groups looked at enchanters after they broke the holy trinity. Good enchanters never had a problem finding a group as hands down their utility toolkit was second to none in 95% of the zones, whereas bad enchanters were frequently sidelined and ussually became KEI bots as those players abandoned them for other classes.

    I personnally never had much of an issue, but lets face it the CC game was entirely different after GOD, especially once OOW hit. The death of the holy trinity actually helped me expand my skills more than anything else. Pulling was one of those areas that I found was perfectly suited for Enchanters, especially in some of the later expansions. When mob punting (kick a mob 20 feet in the direction you are facing, root and then memblur) AA's came out it pretty much solidified our already massive pulling toolkit. I still remember all the techniques I used to pull, some of my favorites was using the mob punt to throw 1 mob into another to pull the second mob, you can't tell me it isn't fun to throw mobs at other mobs. My other favorite was using Hoglosh Elder Beads (eye of zomm), Bind Sight to shift my vision around to see the mobs the using Paci to control the mobs I pull and then sending in my lvl 1 enchanter pet to pull the target without even leaving the group. Paci and Bind sight don't need LOS to cast and the pet obviously doesn't need LOS to run and attack, it would swing and miss the mob adding my and it to the aggro list then immediately get crushed by the mob sending the mob running back to me, no damage to the mob so no summoning. 

    I look forward to seeing what Enchanters have in store for us in Pantheon.

     

    I completely agree with all of the above.

    I had no problems finding groups. Had people message me all the time for a dungeon crawl. If you understood what your spells did, what your role was and how to communicate with your group, you made all the difference. I remember rolling LG with a group with no healer in it. It was always the challenge that made the class for me. On the other hand it was pretty easy to find groups that had no idea what you could do and wouldn't listen to you and that was no fun.


    This post was edited by Hermex at December 29, 2019 9:09 PM PST