Forums » The Enchanter

What I loved (and didn't) about being an Enchanter

    • 152 posts
    August 21, 2017 8:01 PM PDT

    I didn't like EQ1 enchanters dots or nukes. i used them in raids, but it felt like a flea on a dogs arse. But maybe thats what made us great CC instead of great DPS. Sometimes you dont know whats good for you. I also didn't like how our pets worked. But maybe that was good for us, too? I just know that our offensive spells should be mostly dots.

    • 27 posts
    September 27, 2017 12:48 PM PDT

    What I loved about Everquest enchanters was that they showed that you could make a class do zero damage and still be entirely relevant. It seems like in all the games now every class has to parse the most damage and that is the only qualification that matters. In Everquest, I don't believe I wore a weapon after level 10 until I got my Staff of the Serpent. Once I hit top level I don't believe I ever summoned my pet again except to farm or to play around in low level zones. Also, I absolutely adored aoe groups. I loved 50-100 mob pulls and demolishing them with a good group setup.

     

    I never minded the /tells for buffs. We had something precious and valuable to just about all classes. And if I wasn't in the mood for it, I could always /role or more rarely /anon. I would even Speed of the Shissar everyone whenever I was in a lower level area.

    • 10 posts
    September 27, 2017 11:09 PM PDT

    I loved crowd controll in EQ  that what i found to be the most fun with enchanters , i am not a big fan when it comes to charming, sure its a huge DPS boost to a group but i dont like it and i personally hope charm mechanics are toned down in Pantheon and we get some straigh DD spells for those moments when we have the adds in lockdown. Enchanters IHO be more of an CC and support character , atleast thats the way i would like the chantys to be =)  .

    • 251 posts
    September 28, 2017 3:55 AM PDT

    I hope they bring charm back and go big with it.  I would allow Enchanter and Bard to charm and sustain a single heavy raid target.  Maybe strong trash mobs or an uncommon with a name.

    To make this happen I would have Bard and Enchanter flip skill bars to a secondary Cooperative Control bar that uses combinations of skills and counters to attack the mind of what they are trying to control.  And over time this attack would weaken and disable the mob to the point where is loses its mind and will rampage.  Then I would add on a 3rd condition.  The mob would need to be taunted by a tank/support tank, in order for the charm to hold.

    So it would be like a mini battle where only the Bard and Enchanter fight against their shared pet's mind.  But it can only be triggered when a tank has first taunted it.  I would also make the mini game mechanics throw piles of hate around, so the pet could not be used as a tank for very long without losing agro to the spells that control it.  It would be high risk because when the timer expires the mob has to be locked down and finished off quickly.  Depending on how powerful the mob is, that might be a bad idea.

    And I would simply balance it around the idea that the maximum output of the Bard and Enchanter should be limited to what any other pair of DPS could accomplish.  So the mob would have a fixed maximum damage when charmed.  Probably based on the combined stats of the two controlling it and then capped if need be.  Something like that.

     

     

    And as much as I love trains, and mobs that never give up though, I hope AoE trains are just impossible in this game.  I would put an additive stat reduction proc that bottoms out your defense, and can only be countered by the number of people in your group or raid.  So basically if you pull too much and take a single hit, you get one-shot and all your skills except escapes would be rendered useless for defense.  I would also make AoE's spells scale in mana cost for the number of targets affected.  Just to make AoE farming cost a massive amount even where it is possible.

     

    • 34 posts
    October 1, 2017 3:14 PM PDT

    Definitley loved the crowd control (<3 AE mez) Such a rush when you have 5+ mobs in camp all on lock down, debuffed and ready for the group to kill. 

    Charming is definltey fun and I hope Pantheon has a more refined/high skill cap/reward charm mechanic(s).  Charming in EQ is meh nowdays... it's a bit too OP  /ezmode /iwin@EQ in the recent era of TLP's.

    Two things that made me a tad cranky were 1) people not using assist and breaking my mezes  2) The MT or MA not listening to which mobs I've asked to break next (They're picking mobs willy nilly).. aka please leave that spellcaster last so I can mana tap.

    Super fun class to play. Loved playing an Enchanter almost much as my Cleric.

    cheers :)

     

     


    This post was edited by Heloisa at October 1, 2017 3:15 PM PDT
    • 158 posts
    October 11, 2017 11:25 AM PDT

    Heloisa said:

    Definitley loved the crowd control (<3 AE mez) Such a rush when you have 5+ mobs in camp all on lock down, debuffed and ready for the group to kill. 

    Charming is definltey fun and I hope Pantheon has a more refined/high skill cap/reward charm mechanic(s).  Charming in EQ is meh nowdays... it's a bit too OP  /ezmode /iwin@EQ in the recent era of TLP's.

    Two things that made me a tad cranky were 1) people not using assist and breaking my mezes  2) The MT or MA not listening to which mobs I've asked to break next (They're picking mobs willy nilly).. aka please leave that spellcaster last so I can mana tap.

    Super fun class to play. Loved playing an Enchanter almost much as my Cleric.

    cheers :)

     

     


     I'd have to agree with you on your pros and cons.  I found something that I ended up loving in other games was the ability for CC to visually identify the "next assist target".  In some games, the CC can put symbols or numbers above the target's but that would remove the immersion, so I would love to see something simple to identify the next target, like a sparkle the enchanter can put above a target's head, or maybe a way to make the target glow to avoid the MA picking the wrong target and messing up the CC roation or mana sieving.  

    • 371 posts
    November 21, 2017 11:23 AM PST

    My only real con on the EQ1 enchanter was the late-Velious and beyond nerf they gave to charm and mezz. Reverse charm soloing was one of the funnier paybacks to hat, but it still sucked to be the number one target for every "you will raid our way" nerf of your core skill set. They started it in Kael Drakkel, and just ran with it until they let you "undo" some of the nerfs with like 8k+ AA points.

    And that was a major con for me because I played so much AO and they never had a problem with a pure mezz/charm/CC class such that the entire toolkit would be disabled in so many places.

    • 77 posts
    November 29, 2017 11:50 AM PST

    I think Enchanters in vanilla EQ are a perfect target for those in Pantheon.  While the OP is correct in that the DOTs, nukes, and animation pet were not fantastic, that weakness was balanced out by the ability to charm tremendously powerful monsters that could increase the group DPS by 25-50%.  They also had the ability to mesmerize adds and lull to assist in pulling.  They also had some utility by being able to gate, significantly increase mana regeneration, invis, enchant metals, and levitate.  Despite the enchanter's weakness, they were very powerful if played properly.

    One cool additional power that enchanters could get is the ability to enchant weapons for specific damage types.  An enchanter could cast the weapon enchantment on the player to give them a bane ability against a specific element, making weapons more useful against certain types of monsters.  I could see this being used in an encounter:

    - Players are locked in a room with an elemental sorceror. 
    - The sorceror summons various elementals that are highly resistant (not immune) to all damage except from a specific element type, and healed by the same element type.  For example, the flame elemental would be hurt by cold damage and healed by fire damage. 
    - The group has a couple of abilities to kill the summons: 
       * Have the group move the monster to specific rooms that were opposite in the alignment, and have a rogue use their mechanics capability to kill the monster.  Moving to that room would cause the group to take periodic elemental damage, and would spawn adds.
       * Kill the elemental by brute force which would take a long time;
       * Have casters use nukes of the correct element type, and melee use weapons that already had an elemental damage attack;
       * Have an enchanter that enchants the melee weapons to the correct damage type.

    Another thing I would like to see is a visual indication that a monster has been mesmerized or charmed.  A charmed monster could have eyes that glow white.  A mesmerized monster could have its head up and look dizzy, maybe moving its head around in circles or its head down, clenching it with both hands.  This would make it easier for players to know not to attack a specific monster.


    This post was edited by Hadekin at November 29, 2017 11:53 AM PST
    • 11 posts
    December 9, 2017 11:40 AM PST

    I have leveled several high end characters in EQ and yet the enchanter for me provided something no other class did. I can't put my finger on what exactly that was but it was such a fun class to play. I played as MT, ST, MH, and those are all very tense positions inside of a full raid but as an enchanter, my job was always to make chaos into peace. The race that did that for me was the dwarf. Pantheon sees it fit to allow dwarves to be enchanters....I'm in.  The other reason I enjoyed being an enchanter, outside of groups, was due to the high charisma, imbue spells, and buffs which allowed me to make high end JC items and sell at a pretty decent profit. Hopefully there will be something similar to that in Pantheon.

    • 29 posts
    April 29, 2018 1:06 PM PDT

    Aena said:

    My very favorite thing about being an Enchanter was the level 1 spell "Minor Illusion". It would turn you into some random object present in that zone like a rug or a brazier of coals!

    (Just one more thing they nerfed though :-( you can hardly use it anywhere now. Too OP I guess!)

     

    I too loved this spell, it is why I chose an enchanter way back when. We didn't know much about what each class could do, and we didn't know much about the limitations so I had no idea it was just cosmetic (I did use it during some roleplay sessions). 

    Now, the way they could utilize this here, is to make it an agro-dump. Pop! You turn into a chair, and the orc can't find you! 

    • 717 posts
    April 29, 2018 4:18 PM PDT

    Finbar said:

    Aena said:

    My very favorite thing about being an Enchanter was the level 1 spell "Minor Illusion". It would turn you into some random object present in that zone like a rug or a brazier of coals!

    (Just one more thing they nerfed though :-( you can hardly use it anywhere now. Too OP I guess!)

     

    I too loved this spell, it is why I chose an enchanter way back when. We didn't know much about what each class could do, and we didn't know much about the limitations so I had no idea it was just cosmetic (I did use it during some roleplay sessions). 

    Now, the way they could utilize this here, is to make it an agro-dump. Pop! You turn into a chair, and the orc can't find you! 

     

    And he sits on you, 2 hours straight, for a meal then a nap. And you can't log out or move, waiting for the right moment to get red of orcs buttcheeks.

    • 33 posts
    May 17, 2018 8:57 AM PDT

    The thing that made me roll an enchanter was the Earth Elemental illusion.  I leveled the class up with that singular goal in mind, just so I could cast that illusion on myself and run around like an idiot.  When I got there I was known to spend inordinate amounts of time in PoK zipping around as an earth elemental and laughing my ass off.  Of course I also fell in love with the enchanter playstyle and it became my main but the illusions remained a perpetual source of enjoyment.  Even if they're not in on release I am very much hoping Pantheon adds illusions to the the class similar to those in EQ.

    • 11 posts
    June 11, 2018 6:04 PM PDT

    I always felt that the EQ2 enchanters had an additional utility when they added in the ability to cast buffs for the party that gave all their dpsers burst capability. I forget what the spells were, but they would cast them and for X amount of time spells or attacks did extra damage. Sure it's just a dps boost, but I do remember it being so vital that raids absolutely required having an enchanter in for that dps boost and mana regen. 

    On a side note I always felt the illusions were awesome in that you could walk around an enemy city unmolested, taking in the scenary. Especially the already mentioned EQ1 first illusion of becoming a box!

    I have always had a distaste for pet classes and felt that tossing in pets on the enchanters was an attempt to throw in something else for them to do/manage. I think they should just give them dps stuff to do inbetween all of their support roles. Charming was also an important mechanic for the solo enchanter though and made for some hilarious antics in games, but the ability to "mez" mobs was hands down one of the greatest "enchanter saving the party" mechanics there could be.

    • 121 posts
    June 18, 2018 2:41 PM PDT

    I will try enchanter during the beta for sure. I am interested by both Bard and Chanter.

    In EQ2, there were 2 enchanter types: Coercer and Illusionist. Those classes could do cast many CC (root, mez, ..) and also charm a mob and some of them were very powerful. Both class were helpful with mana regen and I remember they had an amazing ability where the whole group would cast so fast it was amazing in raid for DPS burst phase. Casters love having a chanter in their group. 

    • 42 posts
    June 30, 2018 7:25 PM PDT

    I may get flamed for this but I think Enchanters may have been too good at CC to be honest. I know it was their deal, but one person being able to turn around a 15 mob fight felt like too much power over the game in my opinion. This doesn't even include how much they increased output of other characters with amazing buffs like Clarity and Haste. My experience with them wasn't a complete one, I only played from start and through Kunark, but the things I saw a great enchanter do was really really amazing. Noone had the impact on a fight that an enchanter did.

     

    • 64 posts
    July 7, 2018 2:20 PM PDT

    There in lies the issue. Other classes that aren't the CC archetype can handle 3-4 mobs effectively using Roots and the like. A tank in the CC group slot can effectively off-tank a few, although that becomes inefficient for the healer. It behooves the archetype to handle more in the realm of CC than a DPS or hybrid class. It's also a misunderstanding to think the class harnesses this kind of capability easily. It's effectively threading a complicated web to be effective through anticipating a pull, strategic locking of targets before they grind the group into dust, lock down the targets and memorize the order, deal with a mez resist and effectively utilize your skill and abilities to get off a remez on the resist target. Then when all locked down, get them debuffed with Tash/Slow in an effective order and if the Tank can't manage burst aggro, root the mob next in line or blur and pray. Do this while maintaining buffs, remez in the PROPER order you memorized and managing your mana properly. Think of it as less playing the game and more like a job. It's tricky, incredibly risky but because of that, in the hands of a skilled player, the exhaustive can be made more efficient and the impossible can be made more possible.

    To neuter the class is both a misunderstanding as to the dynamic and not only the challenge, but to the need for them in a group effort in the more difficult segments of this type of game. When a pull of 5+ mobs at more difficult or later stages of the game can wipe a group, a careful approach and proper group makeup is in order. This of course means requiring a CC archetype much like you'd want a Tank and Healer archetype.

    Now, with that said, this isn't all encounters. In EQ1, you don't need a CC class, a tank or even a healer for easier content. You don't even need a pure DPS class. You can solo and even manage in a small group. An Enchanter for instance can be a healer using Slow and Beserker Strength line preventative healing off a Rune base so you know when BStrength drops while a Monk is tanking. Everquest could be played a variety of ways and that's what I hope for Pantheon but without arbitrary limitations turning an archetype into a 4th DPS slot and removing the idea of the quatrinity altogther. 

    Charm soloing is one area I found was powerful but extremely tricky. If you were the top 5%, you could manage it without much risk if any. This of course required skill and the class was ultimately one with the widest range in terms of capability. Either it was the worst class in the game due to player skill or it was the most capable. The Enchanter playerbase operated around that medium and it meant proper utilization of CC's, AI control, buffs, debuffs, timing, anticipation, position, resource management and aggro management to be effective.

    In more challenging environments, it was a job and less "for fun" and when a risky encounter was over and your nerves were calmed, how well you did had you look back with a sense of accomplishment or a sense humiliation. In this sense, it can ultimately be reduced to only these two feelings as you and the Healer are effectively who will be either lauded or blamed.


    This post was edited by Darkintellect at July 7, 2018 2:31 PM PDT